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PhantomSgt Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 972 Location: GUAM, USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:40 am Post subject: Energy Independence We Are At War |
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Hey it's time to start bore holes all over Alaska, California and Florida coasts to get our dependency on foreign oil curbed.
How about some more nucleur reactors for power generation spread around the country? I think some guest on the Fox Forbes show said; "Deleted." He couldn't have stated it better. I'd rather have a nuke plant next door than ride Deleted.
When the Colonists told King George to shove it, they declared their independence. We seem to have forgotten their desire to be free when we send our national treasure to fill the coffers of countries we wouldn't even speak with if not for the need to fill the tank in our SUVs. Some of the same countries who force us to spend more national treasure and brave American lives to fight the terrorists they fund. Anyone see a pattern here?
They may not be able to wage war with us militarily, but by virtue of OPEC they can wage war on us economically and plunder our USA treasure on a daily basis.
I would call this the most serious National Security issue we face in the 21st century.
WE ARE NOT DRILLING YET!!!!!! GET MOVING CONGRESS AND BUILD SOME MORE NUKE PLANTS WHILE YOUR AT IT!!! _________________ Retired AF E-8
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LewWaters Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 4042 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Why not coal? We have an abundance of untapped coal in this country and with modern technology, it can be burnt cleaner than before. Yes, it's expensive to do so, but it too could lessen our dependence on foreign oil. _________________ Clark County Conservative |
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USAFE5 PO2
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 362 Location: Reno Nevada
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:45 am Post subject: |
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With no intent to sound like a greenie - out west here wind mills are a good thing. Get them set right during the Santa Ana winds and they could generate alot of electricity, those things can really blow...... on on stretch of I10 in Ontario they have toppled semi trucks. As large as the country is we should be more self sufficient but being lazy has become the norm for many. "Why build new here when they already have it there and we can just buy it" and then the environmentalist wackos go ape s**t if you want to cut a tree down, no matter that your replanting 5 trees for each tree you harvest.
Have the rest of you noticed that the environmental BS started about the same time as the Hippies and the socialist escalation in the media? I don't think our parents or grandparents had ever considered Global Warming or the green house effect, unless they had a green house to grow food. _________________ "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I’m here to help." Ronald Reagan
Last edited by USAFE5 on Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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msindependent Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 891 Location: Colorado
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Jack Hetherton, jr Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Soldotna, Ak
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:46 pm Post subject: Energy Independence |
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Having lived in Alaska since 1953, I suppose I have a lot to say about energy. The bottom line is that the state of Alaska is very dependent on oil. Saddly we have sold out to big oil. Here are some facts: there is enough oil reserves in the USA, Mexico & south American countries to supply the USA for over 400 years. One big probem is the shortage of refineries, which big oil do not think to be cost effective to construct. ...: The realities are that the American public do not want nuclear generation...Another reality is that wind generation is not cost effective. That is already being utilized Calif. in a small part....Another reality is that the generation from dams is cost effective, but invironmental restrictions and governmental laws put a stop to more dams being constructed. ...I want you to think about something. Have you purchased a new automobile lately? They are by and large a PLASTIC pile of dangerous junk. And they cost 20 times more than they should. In the mid 80's our politicians, in the believe they are environmentaly protective told the auto industries that if they reduce weight in autos, they will receive tax benefits. Instead of steel autos, we now have plastic. Guess what is require to produce Plastic. OIL refined products.!!! And lots of it!!! Guess who is making more money; still. Guess who is getting the shaft. You and I. And another thing to think of. Across Cook Inlet from me they have found gold reserves which is believed to be one of the largest in the nation. Guess who own most of the mineral rights. Canadian firms!! And the same area they have discovered fantastic coal reserves. Guess where all attention is? The quick buck for the Canadians, which government is not too happy for the USA. Look around your home. How many things do you see that is made in the USA? Nearly nothing. How about China, Canada, Mexico,Singapore,Taiwan. Mostly every thing. How many countries has the USA gone to war for and saved, and spit on us now? Do you think the public of the USA are really concerned about it? I doubt it. Think about it. _________________ Jack L Hetherton jr |
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PhantomSgt Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 972 Location: GUAM, USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: Payback |
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If Congress approves the issuing of licenses for oil exploration, one of the conditions for an oil company to participate should be the requirement to build refinery capacity for what they remove from our National Oil Reserves. The carrot and the stick approach, rather than just giving it away.
The DoD is developing portable, self sustaining, tamper proof, Nuclear Power Generation Plants for use by the Military and the same technology with appropriate safeguards could power thousands of communities nationwide.
The best way to approach public support for building Nuclear Power Generation Plants is to tie it to our national security and independence.
Education is a powerful weapon when fired for effect. _________________ Retired AF E-8
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GM Strong Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 1579 Location: Penna
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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The lack of refining capacity is not the fault of "BigOil". All kinds of oil producers would like to build refineries, but we won't permit it.The EPA has tight regulatory control over it and will not loosen the screws. We have the 1st line technological knowhow for clean refining and drilling, but the NIMBY and EPA kooks have to beaten back. _________________ 8th Army Korea 68-69
Last edited by GM Strong on Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paul R. PO3
Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 273 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Here are some facts: there is enough oil reserves in the USA, Mexico & south American countries to supply the USA for over 400 years. One big probem is the shortage of refineries, which big oil do not think to be cost effective to construct. ...: |
Does this account for local demand in Mexico and S. America, as their economies grow? Are they obliged to sell only to us? Also, I think that 400 year figure includes shale oil in the U.S., which is problematic to retrieve, though I think one of these days we will have to.
The problem with refineries is similar to that of dams, but more so:
Quote: | Another reality is that the generation from dams is cost effective, but invironmental restrictions and governmental laws put a stop to more dams being constructed |
I have a friend who manages a small oil co. (somewhat like Bush in his youth), and, believe me, the small oil co's are not exactly friends of "Big Oil." He thinks there are medium size oil companies that would try to get new refineries started, but the environmental restrictions, etc., are such that no one can do it...
Quote: | How many things do you see that is made in the USA? Nearly nothing. |
Being in a mfg. co. battling heavy Chinese competetion, I know the feeling. But, on the other hand, Japanese car mfgr's are moving their production plants to the U.S. about as fast as they can. And, we are insourcing more good jobs than we are outsourcing. Go read a few issues of "Expansion Management" magazine and it will make you feel a little better. (A little.)
Like it or not, the economy is now truly a "Global Economy" and oil is the lifeblood. Even if we were 100% energy independent, I think we'd be in Iraq... But, not just for oil, though I think that is a major long term factor.
As I posted elsewhere, I'd like to see an additional $87 billion to go toward energy independence. If, say, Halliburton can use it toward that goal, it's fine with me if they get part of it. (In the long run, the energy companies would be smart to branch into other sources of energy.) _________________ Paul R. |
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Jack Hetherton, jr Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Soldotna, Ak
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:28 am Post subject: Energy Independence |
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I am very pleased that there is good response to my last post on this issue. I cannot find any untrue statements, rather it shows that this is a very complicated issue that effects not only in our country, but involves the intire world. I also believe that the responsees were from intelligent people with sincere concerns of our country. We show that we, citizens of this great country, are capable of talking about a common problem. We showed this when we came together with a common problem with Kerry. We have a lot to do with Sen Kerry, because he is the type of individual whom is becoming too much the norm in our country. Enron, in part, happened because the stock holders let it happen. Often whenI question hard core Democrats about fmr Pres. Clinton's sexual activities in the White House, they discount that saying he did a lot for our country!! It does me no good to mention morals and ethics. Our politics become dominated about subjects such as gay marriage, which I believe is oximoron. Many will curse me for that statement. ...The SwiftVets did a great thing. It opened many eyes, not only about Kerry, but for many leaders of the same ilk. I am getting up in the years, and all I can do is reveal to members of my family and friends the true history that I personaly saw or was involved in, hoping that any of those mistakes not be repeated. Like for may of you, I have tried to put Viet Nam behind me. It is difficult; every month when I have to go to my VA doctors visits, I see Vets from nearly war this country has and is involved in. I was never a hero, but I see many. I guess this is the way this old Vet is. And will be to my death. I pray often for guidance for our President and our country's leaders for the good of our citizens. Jack..Cam Ronh Bay 68/69, Charter member Swift Boat Sailors Assoc. p.s.: An I am thankful for those that started SwiftVets/POW. _________________ Jack L Hetherton jr |
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bk_mo Lieutenant
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 209 Location: Missouri
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: coal |
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Teresa Hinze Kerry pours tons of money in to shut down our coal industry. The same as she pours money into Himas, Peta, and the ACLU Tree huggers wanting us to sit in dim light with windmills while they jet around and support our enemy. The wind doesn't blow that much from where I live unless you are depending on tornadoes. _________________ BK |
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PhantomSgt Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 972 Location: GUAM, USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Energy Independence We Are At War |
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[quote="PhantomSgt"]
Sorry ADMIN I didn't know you were such a Teddy Kennedy fan. Here is the actual quote:
"More people have been killed in Ted Kennedy's car than have died from nuclear power in the United States." --Jim Michaels on Forbes on Fox
How about some more nuclear reactors for power generation spread around the country? I think some guest on the Fox Forbes show said; "Deleted." He couldn't have stated it better. I'd rather have a nuke plant next door than ride Deleted. _________________ Retired AF E-8
Independent that leans right of center. |
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Jack Hetherton, jr Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Soldotna, Ak
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject: Energy Independence |
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Paul R. wrote: | Quote: | Here are some facts: there is enough oil reserves in the USA, Mexico & south American countries to supply the USA for over 400 years. One big probem is the shortage of refineries, which big oil do not think to be cost effective to construct. ...: |
Does this account for local demand in Mexico and S. America, as their economies grow? Are they obliged to sell only to us? Also, I think that 400 year figure includes shale oil in the U.S., which is problematic to retrieve, though I think one of these days we will have to.
The problem with refineries is similar to that of dams, but more so:
Quote: | Another reality is that the generation from dams is cost effective, but invironmental restrictions and governmental laws put a stop to more dams being constructed |
I have a friend who manages a small oil co. (somewhat like Bush in his youth), and, believe me, the small oil co's are not exactly friends of "Big Oil." He thinks there are medium size oil companies that would try to get new refineries started, but the environmental restrictions, etc., are such that no one can do it...
Quote: | How many things do you see that is made in the USA? Nearly nothing. |
Being in a mfg. co. battling heavy Chinese competetion, I know the feeling. But, on the other hand, Japanese car mfgr's are moving their production plants to the U.S. about as fast as they can. And, we are insourcing more good jobs than we are outsourcing. Go read a few issues of "Expansion Management" magazine and it will make you feel a little better. (A little.)
Like it or not, the economy is now truly a "Global Economy" and oil is the lifeblood. Even if we were 100% energy independent, I think we'd be in Iraq... But, not just for oil, though I think that is a major long term factor.
As I posted elsewhere, I'd like to see an additional $87 billion to go toward energy independence. If, say, Halliburton can use it toward that goal, it's fine with me if they get part of it. (In the long run, the energy companies would be smart to branch into other sources of energy.) |
Quote: | "Global Economy" I recently enjoyed a Milky Way candy bar. I noticed on the wrapper is stamped "Made in Canada", divison of MARS Inc, N.J. USA. This surely helps out a country's un-employment stats. Which country? |
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GM1954 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 17 Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:00 am Post subject: |
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You are dead on about the oil being a threat. I agree with everything you said. However, you didn't mention the most abundant energy source in the United States. All thoses "Red States" sit right on top of a few hunded billion acres of farmland. Ethanol fuel is an outstanding energy source to power cars and trucks with existing technology we have today.
US auto manufacturers have produced over 4 million cars and trucks that will run on 85% ethanol. SUV's like the evil Suburban with a 5.3 liter V8 have this engine available with minimal or no charge. I know. I own one.
In the past three years I have driven a Chevrolet Tahoe, I have used E85 (85% ethahnol-15% gasoline) for 8,000 of the 27,000 miles I have driven the car. Fuel economy is identical to that of regular gasoline (17mpg on the highway with both), performance may be better with the ethanol and you get a whiff of bourbon when you first start up.
E85 is referred to as an alternative fuel. What a misnomer. This stuff is superior in all aspects. It's 105 octane, produces only carbondioxide and water as a combustion procuct and is made by the sun and fermentation. Just two acres of corn will produce enough ethanol to power your typical Flex-fuel Suburban for a year. The ironic part is the taxpayer pumps $70 billion a year into a farm bill that, in part, pays corn growers to pull land out of production and place it into wetland and habitat for wildlife.
The downside is only a couple hundred stations exist in the country. It seems that the folks who produce gasoline also have a lock on distribution. In addition, your average car salesman dosen't even know the cars he or she is selling have these engines in them. The engines are in the US by default. Brazil is a large importer of cars from the US. They use more ethanol than gasoline down there. same engines go in both US and Brazillian cars.
At any rate, you don't have to power your car with gasoline. The National Ethanol Vehichle Coallition has a website that will tell you where you can buy the fuel and which cars use it. Look on your gas cap cover. If it says E85 in little letters, your are golden.
Again, the importation of fuel to run this country is a disaster waiting to happen. |
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GenrXr Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 1720 Location: Houston
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Bah, I say lets take all the middle east for our oil needs and cut out the rest of the world unless they are on our side. Alaska isn't crap but Saudia Arabia has lots! _________________ "An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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msindependent Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 891 Location: Colorado
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