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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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 Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:03 am Post subject: Bush OKs Demotion of Abu Ghraib General |
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I remember watching her on all the morning talk shows and
was not very impressed. She appeared whiny to me.
IMHO, this woman was made a General for PC reasons,
promoted beyond her ability. My opinion may be wrong, all you
ex-military can correct me if I'm off base.
What do you think?
| Quote: | Bush OKs Demotion of Abu Ghraib General
By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
Thursday, May 5, 2005
(05-05) 15:48 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --
In the first disciplinary action against a senior officer in the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, the Army said Thursday it has demoted Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, whose Army Reserve unit was in charge of the prison compound during the period of abuse.
The Army also said it cleared three other, more senior generals of wrongdoing in the prisoner abuse cases, actions that had been previously reported but not publicly confirmed by the Army.
That means Karpinski is the only general to be disciplined thus far. Messages left with Karpinski at her home in Hilton Head, S.C., and with her attorney were not immediately returned.
The Army described its investigations as exhaustive, requiring six months of work including sworn-statement interviews with 82 people, including L. Paul Bremer, who was the top civilian authority in Iraq at the time, and Gen. John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East.
The Senate Armed Services Committee has said it intends to hold hearings soon to assess whether senior Defense Department civilian and military leaders were adequately held accountable for Abu Ghraib.
Among those cleared by the Army was Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who was the top Army general in Iraq at the time of the prisoner abuses. He has been faulted by some for leadership failures but has never been accused of ordering or sanctioning any abuse of prisoners.
The Army said it could not substantiate two allegations against Sanchez: dereliction in the performance of duties pertaining to detention and interrogation operations and improperly communicating interrogation policies.
Sanchez is currently the commander of 5th Corps, headquartered at Heidelberg, Germany.
Karpinski was demoted to colonel, a move that required approval by President Bush. She also received a written reprimand by Army Vice Chief of Staff Gen. Richard Cody and was formally relieved of command of the 800th Military Police Brigade on April 8, the Army said in a statement.
The Army's inspector general investigated four allegations against Karpinski: dereliction of duty, making a "material misrepresentation" to investigators, failure to obey a lawful order and shoplifting. Only the shoplifting and dereliction of duty allegations were substantiated.
The Army did not explain the specifics of the allegations, but a number of previous investigations of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuses have accused Karpinski of failing to maintain order and prevent the abuses. She has said publicly that she was not given full authority over Abu Ghraib and that when photographs of the abuse became public she was made a scapegoat.
A U.S. government official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Karpinski was accused of shoplifting a cosmetic item from a shop at a domestic Air Force base while she held the rank of colonel. Karpinski did not report her arrest for this misdemeanor on a later background check, the official said. In an interview with CBS News last year, Karpinski denied shoplifting.
Without providing their names, the Army also said Thursday that one colonel and two lieutenant colonels linked to detainee abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan were given unspecified administrative punishment. Also, two other lieutenant colonels were given letters of reprimand.
More than a dozen other lower-ranking officers, whose names were not released, also received various punishments.
_ Three majors were given letters of reprimand and one of the three also was given an unspecified administrative punishment.
_ Three captains are to be court-martialed, one captain is to be given an other-than-honorable discharge from the Army, five captains received letters of reprimand, and one was given an unspecified administrative punishment.
_ Two first lieutenants will be court-martialed, another got a letter of reprimand and one was given administrative punishment.
_ One second lieutenant was given an other-than-honorable discharge and another was given a letter of reprimand.
_ Two chief warrant officers are to be court-martialed.
The Army said other cases involving officers linked to detainee abuse are still open, but it did not say how many. |
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/05/05/national/w151139D79.DTL&sn=002&sc=709
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Bush OKs Demotion of Abu Ghraib General |
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| shawa wrote: | My opinion may be wrong, all you ex-military can
correct me if I'm off base. What do you think? |
Since this is a Swift forum .... you are right on.
Old Navy tradition that assigns responsibility commensurate with authority.
No matter what mistakes, errors or ommisions are commited aboard a ship ....
The Captain ultimately is held accountable for the performance of the command.
It is his/her JOB to MAKE SURE tasks are performed well and properly.
Just like sKerry, this General is a whinner, blames others and avoids responsibilty
Not very General-like .... a terrible lack of LEADERSHIP .... enough said .....
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:20 am Post subject: |
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In ever branch of the military, the higher the rank, the more the responsibility. Her biggest mistake was to start blaming those under her command. A true leader jumps in and demands the answers and holds those committing offenses responsible.
Rarely is the true problem at the enlisted level. It's poor commanders that don't keep their enlisted disciplined and trained.
If you can't handle the task, you don't deserve the star.
Unfortunately, too many were promoted during previous administrations, not because of leadership abilities, but to make the military more "Politically Correct."
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Clark County Conservative |
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I B Squidly
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 879
Location: Cactus Patch
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:20 am Post subject: |
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PC is the problem alright. Seeing her I knew immediately she didn't meet body fat requirements. Her promotion in a reserve unit was likely considered harmless.
Years back they promoed a gal to Capt. and CO of the Great Lakes Naval Hospital. She was celebrated by the NAACP, etc. and Navy public affairs basked in their windfall. 18 months later the place was in shambles, standards collapsed, many unexplained mortalities, curious mis-use of funds and the gal kept losing Navy vehicles and property all over the Chicago metro. The politics of of a trial forced the Navy to pay her off!
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"KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!"
-Wlm Shakespeare |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm with you. Being a woman, I guess I'm harder on women than many men. There were a hell of a lot of promotions of unqualified or under-qualified women when I was in back in the early 80's, the dawning of "equality."
I started to tell you a story of one such promotion, but the person could probably be identified by details and it's not my intention to hurt anyone, so I'll leave it out. Suffice it to say that I personally watched an example of this "promotion by gender" BS take place and I'm sure she and Karpinsky would get along just fine, today. 
Karpinsky has always come across as a liar, to me. Why did she have to do a pre-emptive talk-show tour if she didn't have something to hide or defend?
And shoplifting? Sheeeeesh.... 
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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PhantomSgt
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 972
Location: GUAM, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Another example of our Reserve forces promoting based on participation and not on performance. She will undoubtedly move to an IMA slot and be allowed to finish her career.
Reserve Commanders are handicapped by their limited exposure to the troops assigned to their units during normal drill ops. Since extended deployments have only recently been the norm for ARC units, Commanders spend only 24 drill days with their troops if they did not attend an annual tour with them. Not a lot of time to give someone a valid appraisal or judge his or her fitness to lead.
When assigned as an Active Duty Advisor to a Reserve Wing, I recall the Wing Commander (BG) looking at me and asking if one of his substandard performing Commanders should be fired?
I told the General this Colonel is one of the finest men I have come to know and all the troops love him. He is readily accessible to everyone in his command and has never raised his voice in anger to anyone that I can recall. That is the problem Sir. If you want this unit to be fully combat effective, you must immediately relieve him of command and tap the toughest (SOB) officer you can find to take hold of this situation.
With a new hardnosed Commander the unit turned around in one year and rated fully competent.
The moral of this story: There are many fine men and women in the ARC, but only a few fine Commanders.
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Retired AF E-8
Independent that leans right of center. |
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Army_(Ret)
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | In ever branch of the military, the higher the rank, the more the responsibility. Her biggest mistake was to start blaming those under her command. A true leader jumps in and demands the answers and holds those committing offenses responsible.
Rarely is the true problem at the enlisted level. It's poor commanders that don't keep their enlisted disciplined and trained.
If you can't handle the task, you don't deserve the star.
Unfortunately, too many were promoted during previous administrations, not because of leadership abilities, but to make the military more "Politically Correct." |
Absolutely every branch, especially Active Duty. One, who was a personal friend of Hillary, couldn't be promoted to a fourth star,(because she was already at the top of her career management field) but wanted to anyway. Once she found out she wasn't getting the promotion, she filed a sexual harassment complaint against the Lt. General in line for it. That ruined his career (always guilty regardless of findings) and she retired immediately for some strange reason.
And we all remember Clark, during the elections---close friend of Bill Clinton. Spent more time sewing on stars, than commanding. Was relieved once as a four star.
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Peace is acheived through victory |
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Army_(Ret)
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | I'm with you. Being a woman, I guess I'm harder on women than many men. There were a hell of a lot of promotions of unqualified or under-qualified women when I was in back in the early 80's, the dawning of "equality."
I started to tell you a story of one such promotion, but the person could probably be identified by details and it's not my intention to hurt anyone, so I'll leave it out. Suffice it to say that I personally watched an example of this "promotion by gender" BS take place and I'm sure she and Karpinsky would get along just fine, today.
Karpinsky has always come across as a liar, to me. Why did she have to do a pre-emptive talk-show tour if she didn't have something to hide or defend?
And shoplifting? Sheeeeesh.... |
Yes. My jaw dropped to the floor when I heard about shoplifting. When I heard that, I didn't need to hear any more.
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Peace is acheived through victory |
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Snipe
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 574
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmmm. Swiped a "cosmetic product". Probably
vanishing cream.
(^_^)
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Army_(Ret)
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipe wrote: | Hmmmmm. Swiped a "cosmetic product". Probably
vanishing cream.
(^_^) |
Interesting 
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