SwiftVets.com

[Stevie]

here's the responses I've gotten so far;
most of these woman are probably 23-37 and are mostly 'moms';
some are stay at home mom's, some have full time jobs, some part time;
they range from lower financially (counting every penny) to VERY wealthy;
they are anywhere from a Calvinist (?) to Catholic, to Baptist,
to LDS, etc, to anti any religion; conservatives to very liberal
(tho I find more are liberal than conservative - but maybe they just
post LOUDER than the conservatives!!! )
If they listed their name, I put it with their q and a; and I listed other info that was listed about them in their signature lines etc....

Christine wanted me to thank all of you for your service to our country.
I think it is the same Christine in the first response below.
So 'Thanks' to all of you veterans - from Christine!


1.What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I think they are heroes, the same as any other war veteran. I also believe that they were treated unfairly upon returning to the States.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?

I heard about it from my father, a Vietnam Purple Heart Veteran.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

They are the same, IMO. I don't think that they should have 'dodged' their duity.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

While I support their right to protest, it shouldn't have been so aimed at the Veterans returning home. They were supporting our country, and the rights that ALL US citizens have.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

No. I think they needed to be held somewhat accountable.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

I'm not touching this one.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

I think she is a traitor to the United States and her citizens. She is no different to me than the American Taliban.

Christina / Kansas City area


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From Iowa
Prefacing this by saying: YES I am a liberal and come from a very liberal family.

1. What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I think anyone who chooses to be in the military is admirable, that being said I would NEVER do it. Alot of men in my family were/are in the military.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?
I'm sure I learned about in college, most of it ecapes me right now. Also, my dad and 3 of my uncles were in the Vietnam war. My dad (who someone on a message board called a traitor), who was actually was in Vietnam, thinks we should have never been involved. So that is probably what most influences my opinion.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

I don't believe that being a draft dodger is a bad thing. I don't think you should be forced to fight a war you don't believe in. My dad and all my uncles joined willingly, they were never drafted. My Grandpa was drafted in WWII. My uncles retired from the military and my Dad was out after 4 years.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?
I believe if we want to be a free country, you should have the right to protest the war. So I guess I support them.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?
Yes, again because I don't think you should have to be in the military or fight in a war you don't believe in.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?
Now I admit I don't know all the details, but I believe there were atrocities over there. There will be in any war. Horrible thing happen to innocent people all the time, why would wartime be any different?

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

Again, I don't know all the details, cause I wasn't even born yet! But if my Dad likes her, a Vietnam vet, how can I have a problem with her?

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?
Don't like the current actions. Don't like war. Don't know what the effects are on SW Asia. But I guess sometimes war in necessary.



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1.What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

They were honorable soldiers who deserved better treatment from the people of this country. I have the utmost respect for our military.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?

From many history books, documentaries, and my 3 uncles who served in country and my father who served stateside.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

Traitors and criminals. The law required you to serve, they broke the law, therefore they are criminals and cowards.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

They have the right to protest, but many of them took it too far and hurt morale among the troops and caused a lot of deaths because it caused an early pullout of troops leading to over a million deaths. There is no excuse for what they did to the soldiers when they came home. You never spit on a soldier.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

No. Those men were traitors, cowards and criminals. To excuse those actions show Carter's disdain for this country.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

Treason. He had no basis for his accusations and overemphasized them to further his political career. He admitted in front of the Senate that he committed these atrocities and he should have been tried as a war criminal.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

One of the most disgusting acts I've ever seen. My blood boils everytime I think about it. I don't think she lied about the condition of the soldiers, I just think she was too stupid and naive to know what was going on and accepted the false picture the North Vietnamese painted for her because it fit into her personal agenda.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?

If it's in the best interests to protect this country and it's citizens then we are obligated to act. I think it sends a wake-up call to other countries that we are not a paper tiger and if we have to, we will bring down the full weight and force of our country down on your head.

Jen M from MI


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1.What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I feel about them the way I feel about those in the military now, they are heros, they sacrificed more than most will ever know. I have the utmost respect for all war veterans, and to see what some have come to, living on the streets with medical and psych. conditions, breaks my heart. I cant understand how we can let them live this way, while we (this country) try to save the rest of the world. I came to that conclusion by being the wife of an Air Force SSGT who deployed to Iraq, and though the times have changed, the sacrifies have not.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?

Most of what I know comes from what I learned in school (Im only 2, but also opinions formed by my mother and grandparents, I come from a very patriotic family.


3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

Traitors...plain and simple.


4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

Everyone has their right to get their 2 cents in, and there is a difference between protestors and extremists, so protesting I understand, but many go over the line and from what I have learned from my mother, who cries to talk about it, Vietnam vets were treated so unfairly when they returned home.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

I guess I would same NO, in my eyes you dodge a draft, you are a traitor and dont belong in the country you're running so fast to get away from to keep from doing your part.


6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

I really dont know anything about this, but Im sure horrible things happen during war time, intentionally or not.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

Makes me sick, she should line up with the Draft Dodgers, shes a traitor in my eyes.


8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?

Noone likes war, including this one, and since my husband and my friends and loved ones are there first hand makes me like it even less, but we do what we have to do to protect our own and if we dont deal with a problem (or would-be problem ) now, that will leave our children to have to deal with it later, and I dont want that either. So we do what we have to, even if we arent crazy about it.

from:
~Rachel in FLWife to Air Force hubby, Johnathan (just home from Iraq), SAHM (stay at hom mom)



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1.What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I believe they are/were honorable men placed in a bad situation. They served our country when called upon and deserve our respect for their service. They suffered twice the hardship because they answered the call. Once, when they reported for duty and the 2nd time when they returned home to the disrespectfulness of their fellow Americans.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?

I know enough to know it was a bad time to be a member of the US Military. Here and there, mostly vets who served, who could actually talk about it.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

I don't have a high opinion of either. It is an honorable man that answers the call of duty, whether you agree with that duty or not. As JFK said "Freedom is not FREE."

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

Being an American, we have the right to protest whatever we want, I am just glad we had Honorable people in our early military who were willing to place their lives on the line to ensure this right.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

No, they should have been held accountable for their actions.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

I think John kerry had his own political agenda back then, it worked for him then.

I do believe things happened that probably shouldn't have. Just like in our current war. Having served myself, I can honestly see how these things happen. Not everyone in the military is a "good" person. There are bullies every where. The military is no exception. Put a bully in charge and you have atrocities. There are evil people in the world, put them in charge and you got problems.

I don't believe he did intend to include himself; however, I have read his testimony and believe he was including himself in a passive sort of way.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

She had no business going over there. I think she believed what she wanted to believe. She made that bed.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?

I feel it was a war that needed to be fought. If we hadn't done it now, then our children would be doing it later.

From Jordy


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1.What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?
I have the same respect for them that I have for any other veteran or current enlisted personnel. Even if the war itself was objectionable, the fact that they served is honorable.


2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?
I confess I know little about the Vietnam War. It's always really only been taught as "it was bad, end of story." I've never taken the time to investigate further. I've heard stories of horrible experiments being conducted on prisoners and the soldiers not having adequate protection against environmental dangers. My grandfather was killed after stepping on a landmine and my best friend's grandfather died from cancer contracted due to exposure to certain elements.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers?
traitors.
What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers?
traitors and cowards. plain and simple.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?
I think they were cowards who mocked the efforts of the valient men and women who faithfully served. It doesn't take courage to spit on a soldier-it takes courage to obey duty and honor even when you don't want to. They were cowards.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?
no. they broke the law. This country is about more than you or me and our individual rights. Sometimes duty, honor and sacrifice are necessary for the good of the whole and I believe by living in this country, we are required to be loyal to it. That includes paying taxes, obeying the laws, and serving if called upon. Carter excused cowardice and pride.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?
I don't know much about this. John Kerry is a coward and thus I have a hard time taking anything he says (or did say) seriously and I believe anything he has always done is for his own agenda. I think his purple hearts were a joke. But outside of my initial prejudice against him, I know nothing of this particular situation.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?
n/a. I know that whatever she did made conservatives hate her and liberals love her but outside of that I don't know much, nor do I have an opinion on, this situation.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?
I fully support the war. I believe Iraq has been permanently changed for the better and that we had as much of a responsibility to take down Sadaam as we had with Hitler. Our involvement is necessary to secure our own protection and to honor our responsibility to humanity in protecting innocent Iraqis from dictatorship.

From Jen in AZ / a Calvinist / maybe mid to late 20’s / married


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To preface this my father was killed in action in June of 1970 - And since I was born in January of 1970 he never saw me except in a few pictures that managed to get to him and my family has never said much about him. Because of this I am not a real fan of wars, and being forced to go to the military through the draft. I also admit here that i don not follow the news much and I feel that I am a typical mom.

1. What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I think they were the unluckiest veterans of any war/conflict we've encountered. They did their jobs and were spit on when they came home. I arrived at this conclusion through discussions with veterans and family.


2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?

Through discussions with veterans and little in High school.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

I personally am opposed to requiring anyone to fight in a war if they don't want to be there so I would have encouraged everyone I know to go to Canada. The war doesn't matter to me at all - consciencious objectors should have been able to stay out of the war zones if they were forced to serve.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. But it comes with the responsibility to understand both sides of the issue.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

I don't know much about this at all, but I don't see what's wrong with it since people have pretty much accepted that it was a bad plan...

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

You know, I tried to not know about this part of the war - I don't like to think about it, so I really don't know the answer. I doubt he would have admitted commiting atrocities to the Senate, and I really don't have any idea of the Swift boat thing. Try to keep the news off my TV because my Autistic son picks up on way too much stuff that I can't explain.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

I have no idea if she lied. I Think she went over to protest the war, which was her right and was made easier by her celebrity status and that she has been hated almost all of her life for that. As I said above, everyone has a right to their own opinion.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?

I think the action in Iraq is stupid. Get out now, let them fend for themselves. They don't want us there, why should Americans be killed for this? Why do the powers that be think everyone has to live in a democracy? As long as everyone is teated with dignity and afforded human rights, leave them to figure out how to run their country. As for Afganistan, why are we still there? Still hunting Osama? He's probably hiding in Holywoood now waiting for a plastic surgeon.

I have no idea why this is here, but I will be looking for any posts regarding this subject.

Alicia

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1. What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

My perception of Vietnam Vets is largely formed by the conflict itself. It seemed to be an ill-thought out action, and so many men were pressed into service that had 'undetermined' plans. Many vets had more on thier plates than they were trained for, and were treated horribly by a country that was spoiled by the idea of security.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?

Most of my information comes verbally from my dad, or through the History Channel. What I know about the conflict is similar to what I mentioned above- it was an ill-thought out decision. A combination of ignorance (meaning lack of knowledge, not stupidity) and ego caused many of our nation's leaders to continue on the same course of action rather than make a change. Much like some current leaders, the notion of admitting and accepting that a bad choice had been made was nigh impossible. This caused continued action in the arena to prolong the many problems the forces were facing, and the cycle of not wanting to admit a mistake to perpetuate.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

I personally feel very conflicted on this issue. I think dodging for real, honest convictions that war and violence are wrong is legitimate. I think the government needs to have a way to recognize such dissidence with war- I know many Quakers/Friends and B'ahai. War is NOT the answer to them. Violence is a sin in their eyes. I cannot compel them to offend God for me.

However, dodging out of fear and/or simple rebellionis NOT legitimate and needs to be handled by those in authority.

How do we draw the line? I think declaration of contientious objector needs to have a recognized process, and other offices of worth be offered to those who feel they cannot perpetuate war.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

I think for the most part, they were truly concerned people that cared about the fate of their country and their friends, brothers, uncles, cousins and neighbors being sent to fight an unclear battle.

I think that our nation cannot be healthy without HONEST, considerate discourse on the actions our leaders take. Dissagreement is what lead to the Revolution, and it was of ultimate benefit to our country.

It's very difficult at times to feel patriotism, but also recognize that perhaps our leaders are not being held accountable. Good, legitimate protest holds a leader to public scrutiny and offers all people an opportnity to become engaged in not just the process, but also the outcome.

There are many times when it is not appropriate for "the masses" to make public policy. However, I want to trust those making the policy to use legitimate information and appropriate channels- something I have not seen evident in all cases in recent (30 years) history.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

I believe President Carter was following his heart on this. He has lived his life in offering service to those in need. he has shown true servanthood and offered an example of volunteerism and Christianity that I personally aspire to. I can't say that he was wrong to forgive the people he did, if his heart (and from what I gather, his prayers) told him that was the best thing to do.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

I can't comment on this as I had not heard this presentation until Kerry's presidential bid, and the "replay" was very obviously highly edited and censored for "security".

I'm sure that atrocities were committed- just as they were in every war in every nation since war began. Just as they were in Abu Greb, and Guantanamo. Just as they were in Auschwitz and the steppes of Russia.

Did commanders know? I can't imagine that in every single case, the commander had no knowledge- it just seems irrational. I can't imagine that in every single case the commander did know, either- same irrationality. I think wars offer the chance for men to sin on a large scale in many ways, and this is one of them.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

Again, I wish I knew more on this. I am only 32, so this happened before I was born. I think Fonda was an earnest but guile-less woman that made bad choices. Sometimes the problem with a bleeding heart is that it makes a mess.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?

Kinda tricky. I think that the premise used to start our offensive in these places was flimsy at best. However I do recognize the need for and the value of men on the ground in these country. I feel that any pullout in either place at this current stage would be more damaging than helpful.

I think our biggest problem in SW Asia and the ME is a lack of understanding. Not a single one of our nation's leaders even understands what it means to be a Muslim, nor do they seem to want to. Very few of our congressmen, senators and other "VIP"s have any real sense of history. They don't grasp the enormity of how ancient the region is and how divisive some of the differences there are. They don't seem to value the culture, the traditions or the people. Other nations notice this! The US is not called "the culture of arrogance" for nothing.

This is not a simple issue of 'get rid of the bad guys'- it's far more complicated. There are legitimate reasons for many Middle Eastern people to feel that our presense in Iraq is threatening, and many Iraqis see us in the same light as many Polish Jews saw the German "liberators".

That doesn't mean what we are doing is not of value- it just means it is dangerous and difficult. But I think we all figured that out, eh?

from DaHoov (forum name) / from IL


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1. What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I deeply respect their service to our country.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?


Very little. Only the basics of who we were fighting and who were our allies and the arguments for an against the war. I've talked a little with one of my favorite professors who is Vietnamese, his family was allied with us during the war and then fled afterwards. Other than talking to him, what little I know comes from history books and TV news.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?


I think when our country calls men into action they should report to duty. If they have a serious objection to the war, they can register as conscientous objectors.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?


I think everyone has a right to voice their opinion, the first amendment speech clauses are not just to protect speech I agree with. That said, I don't agree with their message, and I strongly despise anyone who protested our service men or treated them poorly.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?


I don't think I know enough about this to formulate an opinion, but in general I don't think people who avoid their service should be given amnesty.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?


I think it was disgusting and untrue.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?


Shame on her for fratranizing with the enemy and siding with such an evil government.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?


I think it is free people's duty to help other people obtain freedom when we can. I fully support our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope that in my lifetime all the people of the world will live in freedom and I am very proud of any role America plays in bringing that freedom.

~Fern / married / between 25 – early thirties / nice looking young woman!

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_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

[LewWaters]

[Essayons]

Stevie,

Thanks for posting the responses.

Tell them “thank you” for me/us.

That 9 responses came back within a day is a surprise to me since I did not think you would get a total of 9 much less 9 in one day.

The reason I asked that you post my questions on the other forum was to find out what younger people know about Vietnam and the responses show that there is not a great depth of knowledge - which is to be expected. At least there was no real hostility in any of the answers.

The responses to questions 5,6 and 7 (Carter, Kerry 1971 and Fonda) were interesting since few knew anything about Carter’s amnesty or Kerry’s Senate testimony and while most seemed to know about Fonda visiting North Vietnam, from the responses they do not know the extent of her collaboration with the communists.

All in all, I see a similar level of understanding from people I talk with. The MSM still rules the “truth” but we are making some headway.

Regards,
Dick
_________________
Essayons - Let us try - the code of the Army Engineer. Sappers First, the code of the Combat Engineer.

[Stevie]

Lew, I'm gonna copy out your post here and paste over on the forum for the 'girls' to view.... maybe it'll sink in.

and Dick - you're right! I really didn't expect 9 over the weekend! that forum moves fast and they can post 7 or 8 pages a day, so the Vietnam post goes from p1 to p5 in a hurry and most new posters don't go back pages to check for it (but I bump it up at least once a day!); they don't usually post that much on the wkends! I was surprised.
I came back in to add this - I was also surprised at how many didn't know much (if anything) about the Kerry stuff also!! Gee, with the campaign and all you'd think they'd do some research on it! I made a comment of such on one thread there - one of the 'girls' snarked back at me '.... why do you keep rambling and repeating yourself?' (duh, because I meant what I posted and I DID do the research!) - my response to her was 'probably the same reason you keep doing it. I'll put you in the group of those who DID NOT do the research'. My thoughts were if that's all she could come up with to combat my original post, she HADN'T done the research or she'd have either agreed with me, or posted sometihng I didn't know (and you all didn't know) that proved Kerry was telling the truth and the Swifts/Vets/POWs had it all wrong).

Also, I was surprised by an email I got from one of the 'girls', a Canadian.
She wanted to answer the questions but wasn't sure how you all would feel about it. I told her 'no problem', I was sure you all would love to hear her answers (and you will!) and I figured the viewpoint from an 'outsider' (so to speak) would be good also!

Her responses are below, then there is a 'note' from her to all you vets.


1. What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this
conclusion?

I have HUGE admiration for them. I'm in complete awe of them for coming
through Viet Nam and the treatment that came afterwards. From every
book I've ever read on the subject, from every documentary I've ever
watched, these men and women went through so much and are no less than
heroes in my mind. It seems that an unbreakable bond was formed by
those that were 'there'. Because I'm not very informed as to the
politics of the war, I've always focused more on the 'people' aspect of
it. I think it's from this point of view that my admiration comes from.
These guys (and girls) drew together in order to be strong enough to
get through it. I would imagine that some made it through unscathed
both physically and mentally but others are still living with the
trauma, what, 35-40 years later? My heart breaks for them.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this
information?

I know very little about the politics of it all but most of my
information comes from too many books to count (both fiction and
non-fiction), many documentaries and from the few actual Viet Nam vets
that I've had the honour of meeting and knowing.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think
about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

I personally feel that they were cowards and traitors. Being from the
country that they ran to, I wish we had never allowed them to enter.
The Canadian government did not condone Viet Nam but they made tons of
money from manufacturing supplies for it. Allowing the dodgers to come
here and supplying equipment for the war effort was hypocrisy at it's
best. I feel that if your country calls you, you have the
responsibility to answer. What completely slays me is that there were
Canadians living in the US at the time of the war. Some of them were
drafted and were not actual citizens of the US BUT they felt that if
the US was good enough live in, then they owed it to the US to fight
for them. I'm sure a lot of them did run home to Canada to avoid having
to go to Viet Nam but many did not and served in the US Military. This
also brings up the fact that 30,000+ Canadians crossed the border to
join the military. Did they do it for all the right reasons? Probably
not...some went for the 'excitement', others went for training that was
not available in Canada at the time (i.e. helicopter training etc.).
Wow, I really got off on a tangent on this question, didn't I?


4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

So fundamentally wrong! I agree that they had the right to protest the
war but NOT the soldiers. The returning military personnel were treated
SO badly. The protesters failed to realize that by the Grace of God and
the Draft, it was not THEY themselves that were the returning. To treat
your fellow countrymen that way was shameful. Coming home after a year
in hell to be treated the way they were treated...I can't imagine the
hurt and confusion that the Vets must have felt...and the betrayal. I'm
sure not many of them asked to go and yet they were treated like
something you would want to scrape off your shoe (or hippy sandal if
you will). Sad.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full
amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

I'm not in a position to answer this question but if it was my
government, I would want/expect there to be some retribution involved
with allowing them to come back to their home country.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US
Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets
with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his
accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

Again, not in a position to know this but can I just say that this guy
gives me the heeby jeebies? I'm sure atrocities did happen but on an
everyday basis? It WAS a war. Were they planned? I wouldn't think so
but again, I don't know. I think soldiers could have cracked under the
pressure of being there. In my opinion, it was a war unlike any other.
WWI and WWII, you KNEW who your enemy was. The lines were definitely
not as clearly drawn in VN. The person who you thought was your friend
could have been waiting for the chance to blow your butt to
thmithereens. The village, who by day, was friendly, could have, at
night, been planning your death. You couldn't have possibly known who
to trust and I think that that was probably the reason some of the
things that happened, did. Also, I don't understand how Kerry could
have been there and then turned on his fellow vets the way he did. I'm
sure he has HUGE skeletons in his closet!

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972?
Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held
in North Vietnam?

Two words come to mind...traitorous *****. And if what I've read about
it and if it's true that a couple of men from the Hanoi Hilton actually
died as a result of what she did, then she should be held accountable
for that.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan,
Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?

Oh this is a good one! In my humble opinion, SOMEONE had to help those
people! The Taliban was EVIL, especially to women and yet the world
didn't do a damn thing about it. As completely horrible, senseless and
atrocious 9/11 was, I think it served as an impetus to doing good in
the world. In Afghanistan, it served to free the people from an evil
regime. In Iraq, regardless of whether there were WMD, it served to
free the people of an evil regime (hmmm, sensing a theme here?). I'm
definitely not a political aficionado but I can't help but think that
other countries may be less enthused to call the US's bluff from now
on.

Again, thank you so much for allowing me to answer these questions as
well, I hope the Vets don't mind as well. Could you also let them know that if they are ever in Canada (and happen to cross through from Detroit to Windsor) that there is the NORTH WALL that they should see. It's a memorial to the Canadian Viet Nam vets, funded completely by them as, of course, our government denies that Canadians served there. The Royal Canadian Legion won't allow any of the Canadian VN Vets to join as veterans because, hey, Canada didn't officially serve in VN. Yes, another moment of shameful history from my own country. Oh, oh and another thing regarding the Canadian vets...an unidentified member of the US military once said "the worst of ours went north and the best of their's came south", referring to the 30,000+ (some say closer to 60,000) men who served in the Viet Nam War.

Again, thank you so much!!

Sue
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

[nccjones]

[LewWaters]

Thanks for posting that, Stevie. It's great to hear from our neighbors to north that see the world as it is and actually understands things that have and are happening.

After hearing so much in our leftstream media about Canadians and others solidly opposed to America, hearing even one that supports us means a lot.

Truth be known, Canadian and American peoples have a long history of joining together in spite of the "official" standings of our governments.

Please tell Sue her comments were most welcome.
_________________
Clark County Conservative

[shawa]

I am a former Canadian, graduated High School there. A friend who graduated a year ahead of me
joined the U.S. Army and went to Nam as a
paratrooper in the 101st Airborne in 1963.
He visited me shortly before he left for Nam, but then lost touch for all these years.
I married and moved to the U.S. Just last year, I met him at a H.reunion.

He became a U.S. citizen when he returned from VN, went to school,
got 3 PHd.'s and is now a psychiatrist in Philadelphia.

He has called us several times over the past year, and we've had great conversations.
But anytime Vietnam is mentioned ( re Kerry), he changes the
conversation. I feel its just something he doesn't want to get into, so I
avoid it, even though I would really like to know how he feels about
Kerry, he just doesn't want to go there.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)

[Essayons]

Stevie,

Tell Sue thank you for me. Although she says she is not up to date about the politics of the Vietnam War her focus on the vets is appreciated. To many of us Duty, Honor, Country really did mean something. The President through Congress sends troops into battle. In the case of Vietnam, the 1964 War Powers Act allowed Johnson to do whatever he wished – our Congress gave him that power.

Since there was varied opinion (and not much real understanding) about John Kerry’s condemnation of all Vietnam Vets as ”monsters” (yes, that was part of his Senate presentation back in 1971) and that we committed atrocities on a daily basis with the full knowledge of all levels of command, I would ask that you find a way to present to your friends the following for comment because it speaks volumes about atrocities:

The Tet Offensive by the Viet Cong and NVA during late January and February 1968 was portrayed by Walter Cronkite, our beloved grandfather figure of journalism – the most trusted newscaster of the day (CBS) - as a disaster for South Vietnam and specifically for the US forces and the US conduct of the war in Vietnam. His final analysis is that due to Tet 1968, we had lost the war. That is what the citizens of the USA heard from Cronkite and there was no other voice that countered Cronkite’s opinion. The war protesters went wild.

What was the real story that Cronkite never told?

First, that the Tet Offensive was aimed at South Vietnam forces and cities (civilian targets). Rare was an attack against US forces. US forces were called in to regain control of South Vietnamese cities that the VC and NVA had overrun.

Second, there was a Tet cease fire in effect that the VC and NVA broke to launch their attacks – so much for their word of honor.

Third, within two to four weeks US and South Vietnamese forces had regained control of all but one city in South Vietnam – that city was Hue (pronunciation “way”).

Fourth, the VC and NVA lost (KIA) between 40,000 and 80,000 soldiers and cadre. As a result, the Viet Cong ceased to exist. North Vietnam would not be able to launch another massive attack against South Vietnam until 1972. And in 1972 the NVA was decimated.

And now to Hue. It is an ancient city and at its center was the Citadel, a walled fortress meant to keep invaders out. The NVA had taken control of the Citadel and the South Vietnamese Army (ARVN) was unable to dislodge them. The US Marines were called in to secure the Citadel. Breaching huge walls to gain entry and then fighting building to building, street to street took a heavy toll on the Marines but they prevailed.

The epilogue of the Hue battle was the discovery of over 3,000 Hue residents that were executed by the NVA – not killed in battle – murdered. It turns out that those murdered were targeted by the NVA before the Tet Offensive. They were political leaders, teachers and many others who would/might oppose the desire of North Vietnam communists to conquer South Vietnam.

The atrocity at Hue during the VC/NVA 1968 Tet Offensive is not known by many but the Me Lai “massacre’ of 100 Vietnamese is legend among US Vietnam War protesters.

Comment?

Regards,
Dick
_________________
Essayons - Let us try - the code of the Army Engineer. Sappers First, the code of the Combat Engineer.

[Stevie]

I'll email the comments to Sue. I'm sure she'll appreciate them.

and I'll also post your comment on Conkrite etc over to the 'girls';

Laura, I do remember hearing about Canadians fighting in V, but
had forgotten t hat until I read Sue's email. Maybe now I will remember it!
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

[Essayons]

Stevie,

Any response from the "girls" re; Hue?

Regards,
Dick
_________________
Essayons - Let us try - the code of the Army Engineer. Sappers First, the code of the Combat Engineer.

[Stevie]

Not yet... that I've seen

I'll check over there in a bit -

There have been problems posting / viewing posts on that sight lately (like the last 2 wks).

I even had problems here yesterday.... but I just plain had ocmputer
problems yesterday! I think that was the first time I've had problems here. They have problems ALL the time on the 'girls' site. And lately we've had a troll every weekend (our monitor / geek doesn't work on weekends I guess) for the past 3 wkends or so! What a pain it has been!
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

[Stevie]

here's a new response to the questions you all asked. I copied over her post completely except for the name of the board. Her first line or 2 tells alot about the board!!! as did Sue's reluctance to post directly to the board (she email her answers to me personally)


this woman is married and has 3 young kids (she calls them 'babies' so maybe they are realllly young. She did not list her real name.

Hello. I am hesitant to jump into this, as sometimes threads on ***(I edited out the name of the msg board - Stevie) turn out VERY ugly... but this is a topic of interest to me, and I have spent many tearful nights learning about Vietnam. So, here's to hoping it does not turn ugly...

1. What is your perception of Vietnam vets? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

My perception of a Vietnam vet is similar to all vets. I feel that they are heros who should be treated with the utmost respect. I arrived at this conclusion because vets are someone who put their life on the line for mine, and that is so hard for me to comprehend, and impossible for me to thank.

2. What do you know about the Vietnam War. Where did you get this information?

My early knowledge of the Vietnam War came from high school history. This was extremely basic, sticking to just the facts, so to speak. When I entered college, I took an english course which dealt solely with the Vietnam War (imagine that... and, it was taught by an old hippie who admitted he was a protestor of the war). We read so many accounts of the war and wrote so many papers on it, and it really REALLY touched me. Books and letters about items left at the wall, the history and controversey of it's construction, the accounts from Seals, watching old news reels, the accounts of vets when they returned home and their poor treatment, etc. While I would not be able to give you a chronological account of the war, I was much more touched by the personal accounts.

3. What do think about Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? What do you think about WW II Draft Dodgers? Why?

If there is a draft, and a person is drafted, I think they should go.... Vietnam, WW II, it does not matter to me. It is part of the duty as a citizen. I think dodgers should be held accountable for their actions.

4. What is your opinion of the Vietnam War protestors? Why?

My opinion of protestors has changed over time. I used to think that all protestors held the strong opinions that were being expressed by the protest. However, as I have aged, I have come to realize that MOST protestors are "caught up" in the moment and may not even fully understand the cause that they are fighting for or against. The whole "gang mentality" thing. Now, for the protestors who *did* have full understanding, I would like to think that they could have come up with BETTER ways to protest. I feel/hope that most protestors have realized NOW that they should not be protesting those brave people who are in the armed services, but the policies/decisions that have sent them into battle. To those who mistreated vets when they returned, I think they should be punished severely. These are hate crimes. Bottomline.

5. Do you believe that President Carter was correct in giving full amnesty to Vietnam era Draft Dodgers? Why?

No. I do not agree with many of the things Carter did/continues to do.

6. What is your opinion about John Kerry’s 1971 presentation to the US Senate that atrocities were committed on a daily basis by Vietnam vets with full knowledge of their superiors? What is the basis for his accusations? Did he include himself as committing atrocities?

I find this hard to believe. I do believe that SOME atrocities occurred by our forces over there, one would be silly to think otherwise. However, DAILY? I disagree. I *do* believe that Kerry had a "future view" of his political career and felt that this would help him in his quest politically.

7. What is your opinion of Jane Fonda’s trip to North Vietnam in 1972? Did she lie about the condition of our prisoners of war then being held in North Vietnam?

Jane Fonda is not worthy of comment. I think she was so wrapped up in her "protestor image" that she absolutely abused her "fame." She allowed herself to be used by the enemy. She allowed her countrymen to be abused and held hostage because she was so warped. She is absolutely a traitor. She should be held accountable. An apology does not "cut it." I guess that should clarify that I do feel she lied about the condition of our men being held over there.

8. What is your opinion about the current US actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and its effect on the other countries in SW Asia?

I support our armed services, and -at this typing- our president.
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.