SwiftVets.com

[Stooge]

Hello,

First, I just want to say that I am proud of each one of you who served this country, whether in Vietnam or at any other time. I know you don't require my pride, nor my approval, but I offer it all the same.

Second, I apologize for the length, but I needed to say all of this. I really didn't intend for it to be this long, but I'm not going to shorten it now. I normally don't take the time to postin the middle of political debates, but I'm going to make an exception for this particular group. I think it's important this time. I sincerly hope that as many of the swift boat veterans as possible get a chance to read this before it disappears into the bottom of the forum.

I am 28 years old, and have never served my country in the military. I probably never will, unless I am called to do so. However, though I lack military experience and combat experience, I think that I can still understand what it means to be reliable, trustworthy, and dependable. Though I have never had my life on the line, I still do not like to be betrayed or let down by anyone whom I depend on. This applies to any team environment, be it wartime or just sitting in a corporate office. It is for this reason that I understand why you are speaking out, and I applaud you for doing so.

I wanted to tell you a story that happened to me when I was around 14 or so. I was watching a movie on TV (I don't recall the name of it) when my father walked in and said "Turn that off, NOW!". I was stunned, because it wasn't anything dirty and my father never had a problem with anything I watched. I asked him, "Why?". He told me that he would not allow any movie with Jane Fonda on his televison that he bought with his money. When I told him I didn't know what he was talking about, he turned off the TV and then explained to me what Mrs. Fonda had done to her country during Vientam. He explained to me what it meant to be a patriot and a person of honor. He explained to me, in great detail, why Mrs. Fonda was neither. I learned a lot that day. I learned a lot about my father, about honor, and about being an American. He explained to me that disagreeing with your country is ok, as long as you remember it's still YOUR country. Betraying it, or turning your back on it is never ok. Aiding the enemy is also never ok. Both of which I feel very strongly that Mr. Kerry did when he spoke out about supposed "war crimes" in Vietnam.

That's why I applaud what you are doing. Because, whether anyone agrees with you or not, you are still telling the story how you saw it, first hand. You are speaking out and declaring that you did not see Mr. Kerry in an honorable nor heroic manner. It disgusts me that anyone would try and tell you to stop spreading your message, that you are lying, or that you are just being dishonest about the whole affair. To then further slap you and tell you "you're just opening old wounds" is beyond crazy. I did not see these same people telling Mr. Kerry "you're opening old wounds" when he talked over and over about Vietnam during the Democratic National Convention. I did not hear anyone talk about "opening old wounds" when several dozen news agencies played video footage of Mr. Kerry from 1971 calling veterans, especially swift boat veterans, "war criminals". Where was the hue and cry of "stop opening old wounds" back then? Where was this concern about letting the past heal? Did anyone think to themselves "Gee, I wonder what those other veterans are having to say to their families after they just saw the Democratic National Candidate for President call them war criminals?" Where was the concern for those veterans, for their wives, children, and grandchildren? I simply cannot imagine having to answer to my son or my grandson "No, I was not a war criminal, that man is lying". I cannot imagine even being asked the question, much less actually having to answer.

My uncle served in the Marines in Vietnam, both my Grandfather's were decorated war veterans in WWII, as were several of my uncles. I would knock the teeth out of any man who stood up in front of me, or anyone else, and called any of them a war criminal. God help the man who tried. I am a peaceful man by nature, but they would see my father come out in me on that day. It would not be a good day for their health.

For Mr. Kerry to sit in front of this nation, even if it was over 30 years ago, and make sweeping indictments of the men who served and the men who DIED in Vietnam is deplorable. Did he, as a leader and former officer, have no consideration of the damage, hurt, and pain his words would inflict? I simply cannot imagine having to serve my country, watch some of my friends die, other wounded, and then when I FINALLY get home I get to watch a former brother and Officer call me a "war criminal". Why didn't you just spit on these fine men, Mr. Kerry? If he wanted to protest the war, he could have done it without making those indictments. He could have simply said "This war is wrong and I don't think we should be dying over there." If he was so concerned about this "war crimes" then why, as an officer and a gentlemen, did he not do something about it when he witnessed them? Where was his moral outrage then? Do not sit and watch people murdered, their houses burned down, and their daughters rape and then come back home and say "I saw all this and it was wrong". If it was so wrong, and it truly happened, then you had a MORAL responsibility to stop it. If it did happen, what would Mr. Kerry say to the women he saw raped? "Sorry, I know I didn't help, but I did tell the world when I got home?" I'm sure that would comfort them greatly.

I truly hope that his answer to this is "Well, I never actually saw the crimes." I would hope that he would know better then to testify before congress and the nation to second hand information that he never even saw. I would hope that he would know better then to smear the good names of hundreds of thousands of veterans who served their country. Either way, in my opnion, he's unfit. He either saw these acts and, as an officer sworn (SWORN!!!) to uphold the US Constitution did NOTHING to stop them, or he just passed on second hand information that smeared the names and reputations of thousands. Either way, I'd rather not have that type of individual as my leader. What is even more shameful is that he actually stated that these men who committed war crimes were doing it not because they were bad men, but because the policies of America were corrupt. What is that logic? Is that supposed to be something like 'It's not my fault I raped, pillaged, and murdered people, it's because my country has this really bad policy.' Does that sound like a logical argument to you? Anyone who raped, pillaged, or murdered (I'm not talking about combat related deaths, but out and out murdering unarmed civilians who posed no danger) is a war criminal and should be hunted down to the ends of the Earth. The "I was following orders" defense does not work, and it never will. Personally I would like to know why Mr. Kerry, who claimed to have knowledge of these events, did not disclose the names of these men and try and have legal charges filed against them.

For anyone out there who feels that Mr. Kerry did not say that most veterans were war criminals, I would point you to his 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations commitee. You can see the testimony here : http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

Let me quote you several important parts: "I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony"

Then he says this: "...decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.."

TO me, logic simply states that Mr. Kerry was saying that if most veterans could testify they would all say this.

My father is no longer with us, but I imagine that if he were and he saw me watching Mr. Kerry on television he would probably say "Turn that off, NOW!". Although, I won't do that yet. I want to make sure that I am fully informed about this man so that I can communicate his true nature to everyone who might vote for him. I will suck it up and watch him, just so that I can help make sure he is not elected. I think that's the least I can do for all the fine men and women who serve and have served for this country. I owe that much to them.

To the swift boat veterans, and all veterans, you say whatever you want to say. You paid a very very high price to do that, and in the process also paid that price so that I could as well. So, you say wahtever you need to say, and don't you let anyone tell you to sit down and shut up. Though I am sure you never would

To those who continue to beat on the "stop opening old wounds" drum, let me say this to you. No man or woman in this country, who has pride in this Country, has honor, and is a patriot, should ever forget the words of anyone who betrayed this country or the men who served it with honor and distinction. We can forgive, but we can never forget. Of course, Mr. Kerry has not said he was wrong and has asked for forgiveness, so until he does that, I see no reason we should forgive either.

Oh, and one final note. I once said, not that long ago, that John Kerry wouldn't be a bad president. I wasn't going to vote for him, but that he wouldn't be bad. I fully retract that statement now. You, the swift boat veterans, have shines a light on this particular issue, and now that my eyes are open I cannot shut them again. Mr. Kerry is not fit to be President of this country. In my estimation he gave up that right in April 1971 when he smeared the good names of many veterans. Mr. Kerry should marry Mrs. Fonda and they can both move to Vietnam as far as I'm concerned.

I am not a republican or a democrat. I am a moderate who has conservative views about most issues, but decidely liberal views on others. I am in short, like 90% of all Americans. I wanted to make that pefectly clear least anyone dismiss me as "right wing Kerry bashing". If Mr. Kerry was a republican and this same information came out, I would feel exactly the same. Whether those reading this believe me or not, is not relevant. It's true all the same.

To the Swift Boat Veterans, God bless you, and thank you for your service to this country. I must say, you are all very much serving your country a second time! Keep up the good work, you are the kind of people that make me proud to be an American.


Sincerely,




Wayne Gibson

[republicanveteran]

Thank you for that great post...

My family alone has contributed over 90 years of service, including my own 20 years.. I have a son in the Navy, a nephew and niece in the USAF, and two nephews in the Marines

It is always nice to be thanked for our service, and all military person appreciate when someone thanks them...

[Slednfool]

This is an awesome post and should be read by all. Add a reply and keep it at the top.

[Marine4life]

Son you just opened a whole can of *ss whopin on kerry with that great post. Tell everyone you know or see just what you told us and the word will get out!! Thanks for your 2 cents, it carries the weight of a 100 dollar bill. Semper Fi.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

[GenrXr]

Very well thought out and enlightened post Wayne.

The problem with the anthropocentric secularists is their ability to manipulate the masses. For too long the very mention of being moral and of high ethical being has been scorned by the relativists as watch out this person might be one of those god fearing people. When in truth these are the qualities we must have in our leaders. Our leaders must know right from wrong, not that which is most expedient for themselves to the detriment of our nation. Kerry is nothing more then an opportunistic monster which will destroy anything in its path for power. He is a creature that long ago lost its conscience and yet still has the ability to say what everyone wants to hear at any given time. This is a most dangerous type of creature. John Adams said their can be no liberty without the golden principle tied to it. To Adams the thought of Liberty without the tether of do unto others as you would do unto them would fail this nation. Freedom is a treasured thing people but in order to have freedom we must begin to ask more of our leaders. We must begin to demand honest, moral, ethical leaders. If we demand any less of them how can we ask anymore of ourselves?
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"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy

[Son Of The Godfather]

I had to bite my lip for two-terms of Clinton, but survived it... That is a personal opinion.

This time. the stakes are simply too high to just sit back and "hope for the best" this election... That is a fact.

Wayne's words could have described myself, my friends, and no doubt countless others across the nation (let's hope the SwiftVets message reaches as many people as possible).

Thank you for expressing what so many of us feel, Wayne...

Thank you SwiftVets for serving your country yet again - You exemplify what it is to be patriotic, courageous, and honorable.

SOTG
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"Which candidate would enemies of the United States prefer to see in the White House?"

[NYCnative]

That was a great post.
My Dad is a Marine who served in Korea. In 69 I was 10 years old and drew peace signs in chalk on the porch.. My father flipped out. I didn't understand why he would be against Peace! I didn't understand until I was older why he flipped out. It was before Kerry's testimony. The drum was banging, before him. His lies made things 10 x worse. My Dad didn't try to explain anything to me at the time, how do you explain all this to a 10, 11 yr old? He never fully explained the feelings he had about Vietnam, but I knew how much it bothered him.

He didn't talk about his service much, he joked alot. I found out later how he was wounded and was the last stretcher on the last plane off of the runway before it was overrun. My mother met a Vet a few years back that was there, only he had to march out of there.

When they say "peace" it sounds lovely. It is just their way to degrade the govt and Kerry gave them exactly what they were looking for. He fit their agenda. It has nothing to do with the peace.

The peace has to be defended, and that means overseas. This is true today as well. The fight is beyond our own borders. We must be involved in creating a "lasting peace" over there, or they will continue to come here.

Thanks to all the Vets! Past and present.. I can't believe half the country, even if they don't like Bush, could put a man like him in office! God forbid!!!!
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"From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Proclaim Liberty throughout All the land unto All the Inhabitants Thereof." -Inscription on the Liberty Bell

[prdCOmom]

America is in good hands.
Wonderful post!
That made this Marine Mom so proud of the young people today.
Wayne....Are you available for adoption?
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[Stooge]

I am glad that so many of you enjoyed the post, and find comfort and pride in its contents. Like I said, I needed to say it, and it needed to be said. Too often, people today are afraid to say "The emperor is naked". I do not fall into that category. My father raised me to be, in his words "a standup guy". I strive everyday to meet that expectation. I don't always measure up to that, but I still try. That's all anyone can really hope for, I think.

Anyway, in direct response to prdCOmom, no I'm not really available for adoption. However, the question was wonderful and I appreciate your feedback very much. As for your statement, that you are "proud of the young people today". Well, you should be. Too often most anyone under 30 gets a bad rap, and sometimes it's deserved. However, we are not all wrapped up in our self-interset and ignorance. Some of us undertake great effort to be aware of the issues surrounding us. I think that those of us who do, will one day be leaders in this great nation and this wonderful world. I can always hope that's the way it goes. However, I fear that in 20 years or so we will turn out our own Kerry's of the world. I'll be there to deal with them when that happens

To all those that served their nation and responded to my post with your kind words, I would also like to say a great big "Thank You". It warms my heart to know that my words had a special meaning to all of you. I sincerely meant every word I said.


Sincerely,

Wayne Gibson

[scotty61]

The leftists should have as their slogan "Simple Answers for Simple Minds". Peace is not always good. Chamberlain sold out other europeans for "peace in our time". In reality, all he did give the nazis time to build up their war machine. If instead he had attacked Germany, their forces were no match for him at that time and would have crumbled under the least resistance, Hilter would have fell because he could not have survived the political fallout and he knew it. Thus war is not always bad.

If you follow the peace always good, war always bad train of thought, there would have been no Declaration of Independence, no US Constitution and Bill of Rights, no Emanicipation Proclomation (Lincoln had to wait for a war victory before he could announce it) and so on and so forth.

War is horrible and demands unholy sacrifices, but if someone tells you that peace is always preferable, then that person is a simpleton and unable to grasp the more complex issues at hand.

This is why we honor our veterans for their sacrifice to the greater good, and dispise the simpletons for their lack of appreciation.