SwiftVets.com

[ROTC DAD]

Read the article.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/9316830p-10241546c.html

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Well you can add me to the list, too.

First of all, the Sacramento Bee might as well put an ANSWER subheading under its title.

It's been anti-war and leftist since at least the Vietnam war.

It just never bothered to leave the 70's and still exists in that "All The President's Men" world where the establishment sucks and conservatism is a bad word.

Wonder if this "Marine" re-staged incidents for video, too?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[mikest]

These soldiers are in an untennable situation. They have no choice but to open fire in so many situations.

I remember early on when there was a van load of pregnent women that was blown apart at a bridge checkpoint. My first thought was "these poor kids, they had no choice but will still have to live with it."

It's hard not to simpathize with the troops to this day going through the same hell. They never know when the next civilian is going to turn out to be an attacker. The fact that some can not cope with it is equally sad. This kid does not deserve derission, just sympathy.

[carpro]

Withholding judgement and comment until this guy and his story are thoroughly vetted.

Kerry's winter soldier testimony taught me this.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[ROTC DAD]

I'm so glad to note that Navy_Navy_Navy has nothing to say about the article, only that the paper is a leftist rag. As usual, the truth of the poor guy's accusations isn't brought into question, just that he must be some kind of leftist.

It's obvious that many of you really don't care about the truth, honesty, or even our supposed place in the world if it should in any way not conform to your selective view.

Navy_Navy_Navy,

He served; he was discharged. He saw these things, yet all you can do is complain about the newspaper he gave the interview to. And you continue to condone Administration policy which sees no problems with bypassing the Geneva Conventions, using torture, and basically ignoring all the laws which we here in the US are trying to provide for the Iraqis all in the nam of the US. What's even worse is that men and women in harm's way are ill-served by all thse in the chain of comand who believed that we are somehow above the very laws we are supposedly defending.

And yes, I've heard all the idiot arguements about how Saddam was much worse and these are just hazing pranks. And the stupidity of those statements is self-evident. If our purpose is noble, we must act nobly whether or not anyone else does! We rgue the moral high ground, then act as bad as they do? This is exactly the issue concerning Iraq and Vietnam! You can't argue the moral high ground when your no better than the other guy!

Get a clue, lady! Quit getting your news from Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the abuse apologists. Wewill not win if we do not win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis, and everytime something like Abu Ghraib comes up, we lose that many more Iraqis to the insurgents! Learn some ****ing history!

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[Greenhat]

[Richard]

ROTC DAD,

Let me weigh in on this article. First, I am very familiar with the Sacto Bee. I lived in Sacramento and then Chico for years. It is very liberally oriented. But notice that it wasn't written by the Bee. It is a reprint from the NY Times. Chris Hedges was booed during a commencement speech at Rockford College about a year ago. Here is a snippet:

[ROTC DAD]

So the arguement here is that the Sacramento Bee simply wrote a lie; is that it?

Firstly, whether or not Chris Hedges was booed at a Commencement means absolutely nothing. Those people who know Chris Hedge's work having nothing but respect for it and him. So a bunch of college kids who don't want to hear what he has to say because it doesn't jibe with their personal zietgiest isn't proof of anything other than wishful thinking on the part of the young.

Secondly, as stated above, Chris Hedges is a well-respected reporter and observer. He has a fairly storied history and I am inclined to believe someone who has a substantial body of work behind him.

Thirdly, assuming only half of what this marine said is true; that's not bad enough? At what point do we completely lose the struggle for hearts and minds; when we've killed every Iraqi? Or when we've killed only half of them?

Navy_Navy_Navy,

You would know; wouldn't you? Obviously anyone who disagrees with your view can't be in the military.

As for proving it: Prove you are who you say you are.

[Greenhat]

ROTC Dad,

War isn't nice. It is brutal. It is barbaric. And it is also necessary.

Nothing in the comments by the SSG that are credible are a crime. Nothing that is credible is especially surprising and nothing about the episode he claims changed him forever is a mistake. Assuming it happened as described, those Marines did EXACTLY what they should have done. The supposed Iraqi comment: "Why did you kill my brother? He did nothing wrong." is incorrect. His brother failed to heed warning shots. He died for it.
_________________
De Oppresso Liber

[ROTC DAD]

Greenhat,

I didn't say he committed a crime. Nor do I think war is some kind of game played by the Marquis of Queensbury Rules. But many of the so-called objective observers on this site say John Kerry made the same kind of statements so he must be a war criminal. So, which is it then? Because a soldier cannot bear the burden of his conscience, he's a war criminal or is he just someone who has seen more than he should have to bear alone?

[Greenhat]

[ROTC DAD]

Kerry claimed he committed atrocities. Greenhat, your being disingenuous.

[Greenhat]

[ROTC DAD]

The problem then is that the person in the article I sited is a war criminal as he committed atrocities (though he does not use that word, you can see that that is what he believes). You see the problem, don't you.