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Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: Warriors and Wusses - An LA Times Editorial... |
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| Quote: | Source
From the Los Angeles Times
JOEL STEIN
Warriors and Wusses
Joel Stein
January 24, 2006
I DON'T SUPPORT our troops. This is a particularly difficult opinion to have, especially if you are the kind of person who likes to put bumper stickers on his car. Supporting the troops is a position that even Calvin is unwilling to urinate on.
I'm sure I'd like the troops. They seem gutsy, young and up for anything. If you're wandering into a recruiter's office and signing up for eight years of unknown danger, I want to hang with you in Vegas.
And I've got no problem with other people — the ones who were for the Iraq war — supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. Load up on those patriotic magnets and bracelets and other trinkets the Chinese are making money off of.
But I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken — and they're wussy by definition. It's as if the one lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest but to remember to throw a parade afterward.
Blindly lending support to our soldiers, I fear, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the hawks who sent them there — and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. Trust me, a guy who thought 50.7% was a mandate isn't going to pick up on the subtleties of a parade for just service in an unjust war. He's going to be looking for funnel cake.
Besides, those little yellow ribbons aren't really for the troops. They need body armor, shorter stays and a USO show by the cast of "Laguna Beach."
The real purpose of those ribbons is to ease some of the guilt we feel for voting to send them to war and then making absolutely no sacrifices other than enduring two Wolf Blitzer shows a day. Though there should be a ribbon for that.
I understand the guilt. We know we're sending recruits to do our dirty work, and we want to seem grateful.
After we've decided that we made a mistake, we don't want to blame the soldiers who were ordered to fight. Or even our representatives, who were deceived by false intelligence. And certainly not ourselves, who failed to object to a war we barely understood.
But blaming the president is a little too easy. The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they're following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying. An army of people ignoring their morality, by the way, is also Jack Abramoff's pet name for the House of Representatives.
I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq. I get mad when I'm tricked into clicking on a pop-up ad, so I can only imagine how they feel.
But when you volunteer for the U.S. military, you pretty much know you're not going to be fending off invasions from Mexico and Canada. So you're willingly signing up to be a fighting tool of American imperialism, for better or worse. Sometimes you get lucky and get to fight ethnic genocide in Kosovo, but other times it's Vietnam.
And sometimes, for reasons I don't understand, you get to just hang out in Germany.
I know this is all easy to say for a guy who grew up with money, did well in school and hasn't so much as served on jury duty for his country. But it's really not that easy to say because anyone remotely affiliated with the military could easily beat me up, and I'm listed in the phone book.
I'm not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War, but we shouldn't be celebrating people for doing something we don't think was a good idea. All I'm asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.
Seriously, the traffic is insufferable. |
Sailor in the Desert popped this little missive over at ChronWatch. I thought you'd want to pass the word around...
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Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what I wrote to them in reply. If you want to write to them (and I certainly hope each of you will), be sure to include your name and city/state.
letters@latimes.com
| Quote: | Greetings!
I've just finished reading Joel Stein's submission of 24 January (as pointed to by Drudge). I have to admit to some confusion. His bio states that he has a history of writing comedy, and some of his previous pieces I found to be mildly amusing. However, I'm not sure if Mr. Stein is trying to be satirical or if he actually believes the garbage that he wrote and you printed. Either way, it was entirely inappropriate to publish such nonsense, even if it were "meant" to be funny. I'm not laughing. And despite California's so-damn-left-of-centre-I'm-surprised-it-hasn't-fallen-into-the-ocean-yet politics, I have a hard time imagining anybody there chortling about it either.
Perhaps you and Mr. Stein need to be reminded - yet again - that we are at war. It is a war we didn't choose. It was thrust upon us. Or have you forgotten the 11th of September, 2001? It was thrust upon us because terrorists thought we were a paper tiger, that we wouldn't defend our right to freedom. Our right to exist. They had good reason to believe that, thanks to Clinton's ineffectual policies. Well, we're fighting it now. Moreover, in a war, there are certain things you DON'T do. One of them is to provide the enemy with encouragement. To demoralize the troops. To undermine the national defense.
The LA Times has been doing that since the get-go. This is just the lastest, but most blatant, example.
I was born in San Diego, California. My father served in two wars - Korea and Vietnam. I used to be proud of my Golden State heritage. Now, I'm ashamed. Ashamed of the LA Times, ashamed of Mr. Stein's idiocy or lack of patriotism (or both), and ashamed of the state of my birth.
If you had any sense of decency or honor, you'd be ashamed too. However, you printed that garbage, so I'm guessing you agree with it.
If this were World War II, Franklin Delano Roosevelt himself would have charged you enemy appeasing sons of b*****s with treason and had you summarily hanged. He was, I might remind you, a Democrat. The same political party you claim to support.
The war we fight is a world war. We are actually winning it on the battlefield. You're helping the terrorists to win it on the pages of that used toilet tissue you call a newspaper.
What you are is beneath contempt, and a sorry excuse for Americans.
I'm sure you'll get a lot of threats of violence and death following this disgusting display. Well, you won't get that from me. I have a wish far worse for you. I hope you bastards lose every subscription, every advertiser, every sales outlet and every newsboy and newsgirl who does delivery for your squamulose rag. I hope they all denounce you in public. For you any of your remaining subscribers, I hope to God Almighty that the FBI and DHS investigate each of you and throw you in the deepest cell they can find.
America doesn't deserve ******** like you. And you don't deserve a great country like America.
Sincerely disgusted,
Doc Farmer
Fort Wayne, Indiana |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Doc,
Welcome back. I'll bet it's been 2 or 3 months since we've have the pleasure of your wit.
It's always a pleasure reading one of your pieces.
By the way, I'm fairly disgusted with the rantings of Mr. Stein too.
Jack
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Snipe
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 574
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Nice one Doc. For my part, being a San Diego kid too and having
spent the Viet Nam days home ported in Long Beach with a subscription
to the LA Times, I no longer support the LA times. No subscription.
And, having moved to Peoria, Il on a twilight cruise about 25 years ago,
I cancelled our left leaning Journal Star and have been paperless for
about 8 or 9 years now. Doesn't hurt a bit. The only use I have for
a newspaper is lighting my "chimney" charcoal lighter, and that recycled
paper goes out a lot. I wonder what these people are going to for a
living when the last subscriber cancels.
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I B Squidly
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 879
Location: Cactus Patch
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Hugh Hewitt had Joel Stein on for an hour today. Mr. Stein is the epitomy of a wuss. He knows no one in the military (a cousin went to West Point but he's no idea where he is). He believes the military's only purpose is to defend us if Mexico or Canada attacks and should just disappear until that happens. He thinks servicemen responded to 9/11 like fools to websurfing popups. "They sign up for Pearl Harbor and get sent to Viet Nam." He's paid 75k a year to write one column a week for the LA Times where no editor had a second thought. I've socks older and wiser than this clueless fool.
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"KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!"
-Wlm Shakespeare |
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Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Gee, this turns out to be a San Diego natives reunion. Me, too. Born there in 1930, when it was a great place to live in a great state.
Back to topic, Ed Morrissey weighs in on Stein via Michelle Malkin
| Quote: | I will remind Stein and the Left that these men and women elect, as free citizens, to join the armed services of their own free will to protect all of us, regardless of partisan standing or philosophical bent. They follow the orders of their duly elected Commander-in-Chief, as authorized by Congress and organized by the officers commissioned under the Constitution. If one has a problem with the direction given to these men and women, take it up at the ballot box. We have an open and free society that allows for the peaceful transfer of power over the military by popular vote. If you find that your viewpoint does not get shared by a voting majority, don't blame the soldier for the lack of appeal that your partisans had in the election.
Supporting the troops really just means that you appreciate that they stand ready to carry out the policies of the United States in defense of our freedom and liberty, as expressed in the policies of our elected government. That has no bearing on any particular mission or enterprise, but instead comes from the sacrifice offered by our fellow citizens in uniform to give their lives so that we may remain free -- free to select our own leaders, free to write blogs, free to disagree with each other ... and in Stein's case, free to make an ass of himself by writing one of the most ill-conceived pieces of tripe published in a major media outlet. |
Schadow
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipe wrote: | Nice one Doc. For my part, being a San Diego kid too and having
spent the Viet Nam days home ported in Long Beach with a subscription
to the LA Times, I no longer support the LA times. No subscription..... I wonder what these people are going to for a
living when the last subscriber cancels. |
Snipe,
My bet is that Doc answered your question in his response..."squamulose" :: sumpin' with scales...In the LA Times case, it's main use is "fish paper" in that part of the world I'll bet they're still wrapping fish in the LA Times ! 'bout the only good use I can think of anyway!
And wow, Doc, until Snipe asked the question, I couldn't figure where you were going with that eloquent turn of phrase!
Deuce |
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Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Deuce wrote: | | Snipe wrote: | Nice one Doc. For my part, being a San Diego kid too and having
spent the Viet Nam days home ported in Long Beach with a subscription
to the LA Times, I no longer support the LA times. No subscription..... I wonder what these people are going to for a
living when the last subscriber cancels. |
Snipe,
My bet is that Doc answered your question in his response..."squamulose" :: sumpin' with scales...In the LA Times case, it's main use is "fish paper" in that part of the world I'll bet they're still wrapping fish in the LA Times ! 'bout the only good use I can think of anyway!
And wow, Doc, until Snipe asked the question, I couldn't figure where you were going with that eloquent turn of phrase!
Deuce |
Well, birdcage liner was a bit too obvious. I wanted those lib/dem/soc/commies at the LA Times to work for it...
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I couldn't have said it better myself (of course not!) Doc ! (who is living in my hometown!) 
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Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
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Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
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I B Squidly
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 879
Location: Cactus Patch
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Taranto went fishing in DailyKOS (he's got a stronger stomach than I) to find some of Stein's friends:
| Quote: | Best of the Web Today - January 25, 2006
By JAMES TARANTO
Troops Shmoops
Someone calling himself Mephistopheles, responding to a John Kerry* posting on the Angry Left Web site DailyKos.com,
Liberals shouldn't pretend to be in favour of the military (as a concept most liberals are instinctively against it) when we aren't. The military are
"special cirucmstances [sic]"--men who must do a dirty job when all other opportunities and options are exhausted. They aren't men to be lionised and put on a pedestal--they're like toilet cleaners: it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
A similar take comes from one Henry M. Bowles III in the Daily Northwestern, a student newspaper:
Protesting military recruiters on campus, so long as they ban open gays from joining, is admirable. But there's a more permanent reason to keep the military away from our brightest students. Young males are easily manipulated during the period of their lives when they exist outside the female domain, after the mother and before the wife. They are above all eager to demonstrate masculinity. With its promises of order, fraternity and cohesion, the military taps into this angst.
A real tragedy occurs when a young man, susceptible to the military's appeal and nonetheless intelligent and creative, signs up to become cannon fodder. He'll probably leave the military alive, but he'll have been irreversibly molded, less inclined to dissent. Less intelligent people are better equipped for most military positions, and have far less to lose.
OK, so big deal, right? An anonymous poster on an extremist blog and an improbably named undergraduate don't prove anything, do they? But then there is Joel Stein:
I don't support our troops. . . . I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken. . . .
I'm not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War, but we shouldn't be celebrating people for doing something we don't think was a good idea. All I'm asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.
Stein is not some fringe lunatic; he is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times, the fourth most widely circulated newspaper in America. In December we noted that liberals and Democrats ritually declare "I support the troops" to take the edge off their defeatist pronouncements. Now that Stein has broken the taboo against showing contempt for servicemen, we wonder if other "mainstream" figures will follow.
* The haughty, French-looking Vietnam Democrat, who by the way accuses U.S. servicemen of "going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children." |
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"KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!"
-Wlm Shakespeare |
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Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Snip from Taranto:
| Quote: | Someone calling himself Mephistopheles, responding to a John Kerry* posting on the Angry Left Web site DailyKos.com,
Liberals shouldn't pretend to be in favour of the military (as a concept most liberals are instinctively against it) when we aren't. The military are "special cirucmstances [sic]"--men who must do a dirty job when all other opportunities and options are exhausted. They aren't men to be lionised and put on a pedestal--they're like toilet cleaners: it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. |
Interesting. Mephistopheles is obviously some variety of Brit. Clues: "favour", "military are", "lionise". Kos obviously has (or have, if you prefer) an international following. Hope we do too.
Schadow
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Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Schadow wrote: | Snip from Taranto:
| Quote: | Someone calling himself Mephistopheles, responding to a John Kerry* posting on the Angry Left Web site DailyKos.com,
Liberals shouldn't pretend to be in favour of the military (as a concept most liberals are instinctively against it) when we aren't. The military are "special cirucmstances [sic]"--men who must do a dirty job when all other opportunities and options are exhausted. They aren't men to be lionised and put on a pedestal--they're like toilet cleaners: it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. |
Interesting. Mephistopheles is obviously some variety of Brit. Clues: "favour", "military are", "lionise". Kos obviously has (or have, if you prefer) an international following. Hope we do too.
Schadow |
I do that too, but that's only because I lived in the UK for 7 years, and the ME for another 5.5 (working with a lot of Brits). I've been writing in English for so long, it's hard to go back to writing in American.
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sixdogteam
Seaman
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Upper Wabash River Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see what all the furor is about. Stein is just being truthful. The dumb-libs don't like soldiers and we've known their "support of the troops" crap is phony for thirty years. They 've just learned the lesson (some of them) that it doesn't further their cause to spit on returning servicemen.
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Ohio Voter
PO2
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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I am so sick of these lowest of low mentality people, called journalist, getting paid to demean America and those that server to protect and defend the scum bags. Why oh why do they get a pass by the citizens of the US? Why do people agree with them? Why do people buy the kind of paper that will print that stuff? Why does the writer think he can write something like that and everyone will ooohhh and aaaahhhhh over them. liberals live in a different world. The air they breathe must be different than mine. Something went wrong when they were born. Geesh!
Well, I did a little research. Here is a picture of the writer, Joel Stein.
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/stein/article/0,9565,494014,00.html
And I found that he was a writer for Martha Stewart show. Well, I may be through with Martha too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Stein |
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