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tip toe
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 6
Location: sunshine state
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 Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: Iraq Questionable yes or no |
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Things aren't going as well as should be, maybe another 2 yrs
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WITH KNOWLEDGE COMES SORROW |
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baldeagle
PO2
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 362
Location: Grand Saline, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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As long as it takes.
>
What is the obsession with a deadline?
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Things aren't going as well as should be, maybe another 2 yrs |
Never do things go as well as they should be in a war. D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge during WW2 showed that, as well as several of the Island campaigns in the Pacific.
Sometimes, I think the public has gotten used to TV shows and movies where things can be wrapped up in a matter of an hour or two. This current struggle was deemed to be a long one when Bush committed us to it and it is one that is long past due in fighting.
Since we are fighting a misguided and treacherous ideal, instead of a country, we need to be prepared to stay it a long time. Or, make concessions to radical terrroists that will eventually show up killing more of us unless we convert to their radical view of things.
I vote we stay the long course and defeat these terrorists. |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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It takes as long as it takes. If that means 50 years, then so be it.
Setting deadlines only sets up the populace to disappointment of failed artificial expectations.
You don't go to war because you WANT TO, you go to war because you HAVE TO.
If you don't start out with the goal of winning then you may as well surrender the first day. It will take as long as it takes.
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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gmez2001
PO3
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Irac Questionable yes or no |
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| tip toe wrote: | | Things aren't going as well as should be, maybe another 2 yrs |
Bush asked the American public to be patient with this war and that it would take some time. Personally, I think we'll be addressing the Muslim threat for at least a generation.
Independence day 1776,US constitution 1789 and we were still fighting the British in 1812.
Japan from monarchy to democracy about 7 years after surrender
Germany from fascism to democracy about 7 yrs after surrender
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Tin Can Gunline Vietnam
2nd generation Navy |
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LimaCharlie
PO2
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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If you read the Bible and the Koran or research the Medieval Crusades, you will see that religious and political conflicts in this region have been around for at least two thousand years. It will take more than an arbitrary short time-table, imposed by U.S. Democrats looking for votes, to overcome the region’s long history of armed conflict. You don’t change millions of hearts and minds overnight.
Most people didn’t research the history of the Viet tribes who settled in what is now Viet Nam before or during the Viet Nam conflict. History shows at least two thousand years of conflict in that region prior to our involvement. We won that conflict, but pulled out on the liberal’s time-table snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
The only thing most people learn from history is that there was a history. Conservatives tend to learn a little from history and liberals totally ignore it because it doesn’t fit within their immediate socialistic goals. Your grandchildren’s grandchildren’s grandchildren will be dealing with the same religious and political issues in the Mid-East unless one side totally annihilates the other side. History shows us that isn’t likely to happen. Christianity evolved from twelve questionable people following a controversial guy around that region for three years about two thousand years ago. Islam started in much the same way in the same region.
Ignore history at your peril!
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I was going to become an anarchist, but they had too many rules. |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Irac Questionable yes or no |
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| tip toe wrote: | | Things aren't going as well as should be, maybe another 2 yrs |
I hear and read this and simply shake my head. Have we forgotten our own history? While we celebrate 1776 as Independence Day, it took over 13 years for our own government to actually shake the dust off. And we were an isolated country without foreign terrorists entering and causing havoc.
Not going well you say. Let's see, in just three years:
A majority population is no longer in fear of mass arrests and murders.
Citizens are actually seeing the profits from their oil going to civic projects instead of palaces, car collections or bordellos.
NO part of ANY population needs to fear gassing from their own government.
Elections are no longer simply a showcase, they are REAL. Yep, confusing and filled with controversy but they are REAL.
Selective memory loss seems to have dropped the little points of the capture of a tyrant who created two of the most horrendous ecological disasters we've seen in half a century. Fuzzy memory? Allow me: A gulf covered in crude oil pumped directly into the sea. Burning oil well heads. An entire marshland drained to become a massive salt flat where nothing grew displacing thousands who eked their very living from the area.
In just three years the oil is pretty much cleaned up and the marshlands are coming back.
Only 2 more years? Simply miraculous.
(Comment deleted by Admin...let's keep it civil folks/me#1)
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Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
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Tall Texan
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: Thinking. |
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Until we win, and do the things to win.
Have the Senate shut up and let the Staff Sgts. and E-9 Marine Gunney's finish them off.
Just Do It.
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Chief RZ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 12
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: Whatever it takes ! |
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See United 93. The enemy are a bunch of cowards. The sheep in the USA have no idea how evil these people are. We are winning: militarily and politically in Iraq. It is a shame that the old media types are such cowards and unpatriotic. They need to spend a week in China, or North Korea as an ordinary citizen, not a patsy for the communist regimes there.
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | | Quote: | | Things aren't going as well as should be, maybe another 2 yrs |
Never do things go as well as they should be in a war. D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge during WW2 showed that, as well as several of the Island campaigns in the Pacific.
Sometimes, I think the public has gotten used to TV shows and movies where things can be wrapped up in a matter of an hour or two. This current struggle was deemed to be a long one when Bush committed us to it and it is one that is long past due in fighting.
Since we are fighting a misguided and treacherous ideal, instead of a country, we need to be prepared to stay it a long time. Or, make concessions to radical terrroists that will eventually show up killing more of us unless we convert to their radical view of things.
I vote we stay the long course and defeat these terrorists. |
You've got it. Unfortunately, the media and many politicians have the same problem. They don't understand conflicts like this and pass along their ignorance as "expert opinion".
The Israelis and Palestinians have been fighting each other for 60 years and neither side believes it is "losing" simply because the other continues to be willing to fight.
The United States can no more expect to completely end the fighting in Iraq than it can completely end fighting among urban street gangs in tour own cities. The type of conflict in Iraq is an marathon race rather than a 100-yard dash or even a mile run. The most the U.S. can hope for is to gradually eliminate the most violent individuals in the region.
The war in Iraq encourages would be terrorists in other Muslim countries to go to Iraq to fight our troops instead of coming to the U.S. to kill our civilians.
The one change the Bush administration should consider is the goal of keeping Iraq as a single country. The different peoples of Iraq may not be ready to live in harmony. To rephrase the words of a song once done by the Kingston Trio: "The Sunnis hate the Shiites, the Shiites hate the Kurds...and everybody hates the Turks."
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"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
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Chief RZ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 12
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:59 am Post subject: One country |
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We settled that issue before we went in. One country. Regions? Yes, but even the Kurds have said, "we are Iraq".
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Chief RZ |
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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One thing people ignore is the difficulty of getting serial criminals, or terrorists. Here in the U.S. the Unibomber was caught only after one of his relatives figured out who he was and told the FBI. The DC snipers were caught only have their identities were determined because of a chance discovery a continent away in the state of Washington. Bomber Eric Randolph was caught by chance when a deputy sheriff spotted him dumpster diving.
Also forgotten is the amount of time required to end a guerilla war in the Phillipines after the U.S. took the islands away from Spain. Allied generals were very concerned about the possibility of guerilla wars in Germany and Japan at the end of WWII. Concern about a possible guerilla war in Japan caused President Truman to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Fortunately for our troops, both countries were so thoroughly destroyed that the people had no fight left in them. The U.S. did however have to keep troops there for many years to help them recover.
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"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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My vote goes with the "As long as it takes" group.
And who in the hell ever gave Congress the impression that they should micro-manage a war? Get these nay-sayers in Congress to shut up and this would be over with a lot sooner. As long as the Kerrys and Kennedys et al continue to give the terrorists hope that we will bail, they will keep their nerve up.
How many lives do they have to help end by their blustering and bloviating?
Shame on em all.
Dusty
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Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Damn if that isn't the most eloquent, concise, representation of the current situation in the US I've read...LC are you Australian? If so, read the next excerpt from an unknown Australian's editorial in a Pakistani rag:
Deuce
| LimaCharlie wrote: | If you read the Bible and the Koran or research the Medieval Crusades, you will see that religious and political conflicts in this region have been around for at least two thousand years. It will take more than an arbitrary short time-table, imposed by U.S. Democrats looking for votes, to overcome the region’s long history of armed conflict. You don’t change millions of hearts and minds overnight.
Most people didn’t research the history of the Viet tribes who settled in what is now Viet Nam before or during the Viet Nam conflict. History shows at least two thousand years of conflict in that region prior to our involvement. We won that conflict, but pulled out on the liberal’s time-table snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
The only thing most people learn from history is that there was a history. Conservatives tend to learn a little from history and liberals totally ignore it because it doesn’t fit within their immediate socialistic goals. Your grandchildren’s grandchildren’s grandchildren will be dealing with the same religious and political issues in the Mid-East unless one side totally annihilates the other side. History shows us that isn’t likely to happen. Christianity evolved from twelve questionable people following a controversial guy around that region for three years about two thousand years ago. Islam started in much the same way in the same region.
Ignore history at your peril! |
| Quote: |
> To Kill an American
>
> You probably missed it in the rush of
> news last week, but there was actually a report that
> someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an
> offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American,
> any American.
>
> So an Australian dentist wrote an
> editorial the following day to let everyone know
> what an American is, so they would know when they
> found one.
>
> "An American is English, or French, or
> Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or
> Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican,
> African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean,
> Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani or
> Afghan.
>
> An American may also be a Comanche,
> Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole
> or one of the many other tribes known as native
> Americans.
>
> An American is Christian, or he could
> be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there
> are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The
> only difference is that in America they are free to
> worship as each of them chooses.
>
> An American is also free to believe in
> no religion. For that he will answer only to God,
> not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to
> speak for the government and for God.
>
> An American lives in the most
> prosperous land in the history of the world. The
> root of that prosperity can be found in the
> Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the
> God given right of each person to the pursuit of
> happiness.
>
> An American is generous. Americans
> have helped out just about every other nation in the
> world in their time of need, never asking a thing in
> return.
>
> When Afghanistan was over-run by the
> Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms
> and supplies to enable the people to win back their
> country!
>
> As of the morning of September 11,
> Americans had given more than any other nation to
> the poor in Afghanistan. Americans welcome the best
> of everything...the best products, the best books,
> the best music, the best food, the best services.
> But they also welcome the least.
>
> The national symbol of America, The
> Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your
> poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores,
> the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the
> people who built America.
>
> Some of them were working in the Twin
> Towers the morning of September 11, 2001 earning a
> better life for their families. It's been told that
> the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30
> different countries, cultures, and first languages,
> including those that aided and abetted the
> terrorists.
>
> So you can try to kill an American if
> you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and
> Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and other blood-thirsty
> tyrants in the world. But, in doing so you would
> just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not
> a particular people from a particular place. They
> are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom.
> Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an
> American. |
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Theresa Alwood
Rear Admiral
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 631
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: |
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This is a question that does not have a absolute answer. When we win - no matter how long, or how hard, or how much it will cost us.
We have no other option than to win this war and stay in it until we have won hands down.
The next president must be someone who is willing to step and finish the task.
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Born to raise a little hell! |
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