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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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 Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: Vets wage battle over flag |
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| Quote: | Vets wage battle over flag
By Marcus E. Howard
Marietta Daily Journal Staff Writer
MARIETTA - City officials on Wednesday loosened a ban on war veterans handing out thousands of miniature American flags during next week's Fourth of July parade.
Officials announced yesterday afternoon that the city will allow veterans and others to pass out 3-by-5 inch U.S. flags, but only before and after the parade, not during the 1.5-mile route as they walk next to their "Let Freedom Ring" float.
http://www.mdjonline.com/268/10264045.txt |
What happened to the country I was born in?
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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Snipe
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 574
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Allow? Just hand them out. The problem with "rules" is that most of them are unenforceable.
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if they had to consider "allowing" the anti-war left displays of anti-war displays at Memorial Day events, as requested by candidate John Edwards this year?
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipe wrote: | | Allow? Just hand them out. |
Snipe...you've made an excellent suggestion. Hand them out for the length of the parade then watch (and record) as the "city officials" attempt to restrict the activity. Those are videos I'd like to see.
| Quote: | "I think it's pretty sad when you can't pass out a miniature flag during a Fourth of July parade," said Spears, a Vietnam and Desert Storm veteran. "I don't think handing out the American flag equates to handing out candy."
It may take more than a dusty old rule to keep Dean and other battle-tested veterans among Marietta's 456-member VFW Post 2681 from distributing Old Glory on Independence Day, Dean said.
"Yes, absolutely we'll be out there passing out flags," Dean said.
Marietta Police Chief Dan Flynn said he hopes none of his officers have to arrest anyone next week for passing out U.S. flags. He said he is scheduled to meet with representatives from VFW Post 2681 Thursday morning to discuss the matter. |
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Snipe
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 574
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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OK. I've been a good boy for the better part of my life. Just go along and raise a family and play by the rules. Well, the kids are out of the house, the wife died, and as of tomorrow, I hit the retired list for the second time in my life. So everyone is saying "What are you going to do now?"
I'm thinking that a little activism and anarchy is in order in the very near future. I'm getting tired of being a "good" boy. The Snipe is stiring around big time.
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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ACHTUNG! Der Fuhere would be proud of the Marietta SS Troops.
Once again, where am I? |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| When you lookup "ham-fisted" in the dictionary, you'll find a picture of the Marietta, GA, "city officials". I cannot imagine Georgians allowing this to stand. |
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Snipe
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 574
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yup. Record the parade and if there's a problem, than make the mayor,
Police Chief, and any other official FAMOUS.
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Harvuskong
Seaman
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:01 am Post subject: |
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The only reasons that I can think of, is that the officials in question think that the flags will become part of the litter along the parade route. And maybe they are thinking about crowd control and safety mainly because of the outside chance of a possible incident happening that results in a lawsuit involving the city.
Add to the mix, most likely the officials in question are of the baby boomer generation. That could be part of the problem, wanting to control everthing to the smallest detail.
Best that I can do.
And a couple of minutes after posting the above answer, I decided to check out the newspaper story.
Yes, it was a safety issue for the city officals in question. There are plenty of lawyers out there that will try anything, minor or major, to get money in their pockets.
Reminds me of Kerry marrying up if that is the correct term. |
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baldeagle
PO2
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 362
Location: Grand Saline, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipe wrote: | OK. I've been a good boy for the better part of my life. Just go along and raise a family and play by the rules. Well, the kids are out of the house, the wife died, and as of tomorrow, I hit the retired list for the second time in my life. So everyone is saying "What are you going to do now?"
I'm thinking that a little activism and anarchy is in order in the very near future. I'm getting tired of being a "good" boy. The Snipe is stiring around big time.
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Go get'em, shipmate, I'd do the same thing in your shoes.
Liquidate everything, so's there no home place to take care of, direct deposit the retirement checks, hang a camper on the back of the truck, and hit the road to wherever the anti's are stirring trouble.
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"In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home." --George Washington |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| baldeagle wrote: | | Liquidate everything, so's there no home place to take care of, direct deposit the retirement checks, hang a camper on the back of the truck, and hit the road to wherever the anti's are stirring trouble. |
Dang, now THAT'S living 
And here's an update...if I read this correctly, there's civil disobediance a-stirrin' in Marietta...
| Quote: | City, veterans call truce over flags
Friday, June 29, 2007 2:24 AM EDT
By Marcus E. Howard
Marietta Daily Journal Staff Writer
Dean and other veterans questioned the policy, arguing that they had distributed the 3-by-5-inch U.S. flags from their float to children and other people on the sidewalks for the past several years, without incident.
After his morning meeting with Flynn and a second meeting in the afternoon regarding the language of the agreement, Dean said he was satisfied with the compromise and said Flynn was "very cordial."
Under the agreement, veterans will be allowed to walk-up to spectators and hand them flags 10 to 15 minutes before the parade begins,...
<snip>
"Some of the members say they're not doing it and are just going to pass out the flags anyway," said Dean, a Korean War Army veteran. "But I have no control over members once they leave the post."
<snip>
Flynn said what makes the new agreement different from the old scenario is that the antique fire truck will be "creeping" slower than other parade vehicles and that a 15-passenger police van will follow veterans and Lion's Club members as they distribute flags to ensure safety.
The VFW will still have its own float, positioned No. 28 in the parade lineup - well behind a string of politicians, city councilmen and the mayor. (ed. In other words, safely beyond camera range of the Veterans position in the parade)
Still, some veterans like James Ellis said they plan to defy city rules and distribute flags to spectators as they walk next to their "Let Freedom Ring" float, during the parade.
"It stinks," said Ellis, a World War II and Korean War veteran, of the agreement. "I say we still need to walk along the parade route with our float and hand flags out."
He said regardless of what city officials say, veterans have been distributing flags to parade spectators along the route for decades and he offered photos of them doing so as proof.
A former U.S. Navy sailor who witnessed firsthand the Berlin Wall and Cuban-missile crises, Ellis said the entire flag controversy has "hit a sore spot" for him.
Wilma Clark, president of the VFW post's Ladies Auxiliary, said Thursday evening that she didn't know the details of the agreement yet but she felt the city's ordinance is "wrong" since there has been no previously reported injury as a result of veterans handing flags out.
Other Cobb residents have voiced equal dismay over the city's position.
Mark Johnson, a Marietta attorney who represents Cobb real estate magnate and Post Properties founder John Williams, said he first met his wife at the Fourth of July parade and called it a "highlight" of his year.
"Without fail, veteran's groups have passed out the now-banned flags DURING the parade, and we jockey to the front of the line in order to grab a flag for our smaller children," Johnson said in a letter to the editor that appears in today's Journal.
"For some reason, this enforcement effort strikes a resonant current chord - right up there with border enforcement in terms of being the Big Lie of the political class."
(ed. The following apparent inconsistency is explained in the Marietta Journal editorial below)
Richard Buss, Marietta parks and recreation director, which organizes the parade, said in addition to the agreement, veterans would be allowed to distribute flags to spectators standing on the sidewalks during the parade.
"We're looking forward to a great parade," Buss said.
Marietta Daily Journal - cont'd |
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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...and from the Marietta Journal Editorial page...good for them...
| Quote: | EDITORIAL
Ignore city's spin:
Flag flap a slap at vets
Friday, June 29, 2007 2:24 AM EDT
The heart and soul of the Marietta July Fourth Parade each year are the many military veterans who take part, some of them in their old uniforms - not the hordes of politicians who use the event as an excuse to get "face time" in front of potential voters.
The veterans and veterans groups elicit by far the loudest ovations from the crowds that line the parade route, louder than the cheers for any politician or other participant. And that's as it should be.
But to its great discredit, Marietta City Hall this year has decided to give the veterans the back of its hand.
In past years, the start of the parade has been heralded by members of Marietta's Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 2681, who walk along the parade route a few minutes ahead of the rest of the marchers while passing out thousands of miniature U.S. flags to children - young and old - along the way.
Other members of the group pass the flags out while walking next to the group's float.
But that may not be the case this year, sad to say.
City Hall informed the VFW that it would not be allowed to give out the flags, citing an obscure rule prohibiting parade participants from passing out materials or throwing candy - a rule they've never enforced when it came to the flags.
It's a good rule in some respects, in that it prevents marchers from passing out campaign flyers and religious tracts, which might be put to use as fans but which eventually would just add to the litter problem.
But as for worries about children getting hurt by marchers throwing candy or aged veterans passing out little flags, get real.
If Mardi Gras parades in New Orleans can distribute tens of thousands of "throws" each year without incident from floats that are bigger and faster than ours to crowds that are massive and frenzied, we can't see why Marietta City Hall is suddenly filled with nervous Nellies fretting about old men passing out little flags to little kids. We've never heard of anyone being trampled on Marietta Square in a mad scramble for a miniature flag - and never expect to.
In addition, there's a better chance of a septuagenarian VFWer passing out from heat exhaustion while handing out flags than there is of anyone being run over, especially since the vehicles in the parade typically start and stop at just a few miles per hour.
What we have here is a case of bureaucratic killjoys at City Hall overreacting to a non-existent threat, and insulting the VFW in the process.
"We've passed (flags) out in the past - for years and years - and I don't know why they're picking on us this year," said Korean War veteran Leon Dean, commander of the VFW post. "If it was not for veterans protecting the flag, they might be speaking Japanese or German."
Moreover, you would think City Hall would give local veterans "pride of place" in the parade, putting all of them up front and letting the politicians, Scouts, beauty queens and the rest bring up the rear. But City Hall has other priorities. The VFW is the 28th of 100 units in this year's march, for example.
As the story about City Hall's crackdown was on the verge of "breaking" on Wednesday, the city went into damage-control mode and finally relented - somewhat. It said VFW members could pass out their flags while walking alongside a fire truck at the start of the parade - fair enough - but cannot pass out the flags while walking beside their own float. They will have to pass them out while walking on the sidewalk parallel to the parade route - or in other words, behind the crowd. That means parade-goers will have the choice of saluting the VFW float full of veterans as it goes by, or turning their backs on them to walk over and take a flag from one of the veterans on the crowded sidewalk behind them.
Mayor Bill Dunaway could have stepped in and told his underlings to "cease and desist," but apparently has sided with the bureaucrats instead of the veterans.
State VFW adjutant Al Spears, a veteran of Vietnam and Desert Storm, summed up the situation best.
"I think it's pretty sad when you can't pass out a miniature flag during a Fourth of July parade," he said.
We think it's time for City Hall to raise the white flag on this, and let the veterans pass out their flags as they always have.
Marietta Daily Journal |
This exercise in bureaucratic obduracy is getting more entertaining by the minute. By allowing the vets to "safely" pass out little flags alongside the "slow moving" firetruck at the head of the parade, they are acknowledging the lameness of the purported "safety issue" that was the rationale for the silly ruling in the first place.
My money is on the tonedeaf pols to completely cave-in on this absurd kerfuffle. |
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jmckay8497
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 35
Location: Lake Orion, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: Flags in Parade |
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I read this story and am outraged over the idioacy of these local politicans. I find it hard to believe that passing out flags in a 4th of July parade would be considered a safety hazard.
My Dad, a WWII vet is in the hospital fighting for his life today and I can imagine him and other Vets of the WWII era wondering if this is really the country they fought and died for. We can only hope that there are still some sane people who will stand up for Our Flag, and Our Country, who see through this lunacy and will bring some common sense back into our lives, before it is too late.
God Bless America, and I will pass out small flags at our local parade..
Jim McKay
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Air Force Vet
Service in Thailand and Viet Nam
1968 and 1969 |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, "lunacy" is the word. 
How in the world did we ever get so low? It's things like this that make me truly afraid for our future. How can we survive when we are THIS stupid? 
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Harvuskong
Seaman
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| baldeagle wrote: | | Snipe wrote: | OK. I've been a good boy for the better part of my life. Just go along and raise a family and play by the rules. Well, the kids are out of the house, the wife died, and as of tomorrow, I hit the retired list for the second time in my life. So everyone is saying "What are you going to do now?"
I'm thinking that a little activism and anarchy is in order in the very near future. I'm getting tired of being a "good" boy. The Snipe is stiring around big time.
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Go get'em, shipmate, I'd do the same thing in your shoes.
Liquidate everything, so's there no home place to take care of, direct deposit the retirement checks, hang a camper on the back of the truck, and hit the road to wherever the anti's are stirring trouble. |
Hey, don't forget that great American Icon for freedom, the Harley Davidson motorcycle. |
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