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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: NY Sun Editorial: "Bush's Clemency" |
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That Scooter Libby had been granted clemency as opposed to a pardon had escaped my notice. The NY Sun has clarified it for me with a nice editorial...
| Quote: | Bush's Clemency
New York Sun Editorial
July 3, 2007
It has been said by the marquis Beccaria, that the power of pardon does not exist under a perfect administration of the laws; and that the admission of the power is a tacit acknowledgment of the infirmity of the course of justice. But if this be a defect at all, it arises from the infirmity of human nature generally; and in this view, is no more objectionable, than any other power of government; for every such power, in some sort, arises from human infirmity.… The power to pardon, then, being a fit one to be entrusted to all governments, humanity and sound policy dictate, that this benign prerogative should be, as little as possible, fettered, or embarrassed. The criminal code of every country partakes so much of necessary severity, that, without an easy access to exceptions in favour of unfortunate guilt, justice would assume an aspect too sanguinary and cruel.
— Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution
The press and even his colleagues in Congress may have written President Bush off as a lame duck, but with the decision to grant clemency to I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Jr., Mr. Bush demonstrated yesterday that he understands the nature of the attack on his administration and the politics of the war. Libby may have preferred a full-scale pardon, but there is yet time for that once Libby's legal appeals are exhausted. The decision to grant clemency rather than a pardon now holds out the possibility that a court may rule the special prosecutor illegal, thus sparing not only Libby but public servants in future administrations of any political party from having their boldness affected, in the words of Justice Scalia's great dissent in Morrison v. Olson.
The decision to spare Libby time in prison is not only humane but also just, for the underlying leak of Valerie Plame's identity was committed not by Libby but by Richard Armitage, and once that was known, the investigation should have stopped. Clemency is one of the presidency's least fettered constitutional powers, and in exercising it yesterday, Mr. Bush made clear that he understands the office he holds.
Mr. Bush's nuanced statement paid heed both to the decision of the judge and jury in the case and also to the facts as they are. Not so the intemperate response by the special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, who, in an extraordinary statement for an employee of the executive branch, challenged Mr. Bush's judgment that the 30-month prison sentence imposed on Mr. Libby was "excessive." As Story realized and as Mr. Bush realizes, it was precisely to deal with failures of judgment such as Mr. Fitzgerald's and the sentencing judge's that the Founders of America inserted the powers of pardon and clemency into the Constitution.
NY Sun |
As noted in the editorial, it is unsettling that Fitzgerald chose to rebut the President's decision...perhaps a confirmation that Fitzgerald's conduct throughout the Plame investigation/prosecution was overzealous. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Oh dear, Chuckie is outraged...again...please send money... (links deleted)
| Quote: | 
Dear XXX,
I’m outraged. President Bush commuted Scooter Libby’s prison sentence wiping away two and half years of jail time with the stroke of a pen. President Bush ignored Libby’s felony conviction for lying to investigators, ignored the jury’s guilty verdict, and ignored the rule of law that governs our nation.
We expect more from our President. We expect honor and integrity, we expect moral leadership. We expect our President and his staff to be held to a higher standard.
Tell President Bush that you are appalled by his actions. Sign our petition today letting President Bush know that this outrageous conduct won’t be tolerated by the American people.
Sincerely,
Chuck Schumer
P.S. It’s at times like these that I realize just how important a strong Democratic Senate is to our nation. Democrats are fighting the Republican’s abuse of power but we can’t do it without your help. Tell President Bush that you are appalled by his actions. Sign our petition today letting President Bush know that this outrageous conduct won’t be tolerated by the American people. |
I think I'll pass. |
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baldeagle
PO2
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 362
Location: Grand Saline, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I don't remember Chuckie getting upset in the early days of January 2001.
Here's Billy Jeff's list.
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm
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"In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home." --George Washington |
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Bush shoulda PARDONED Scootie AND the border patrol agents.
But, then again, that would have been the right thing to do. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| AMOS wrote: | Bush shoulda PARDONED Scootie AND the border patrol agents.
But, then again, that would have been the right thing to do. |
I disagree, at least in the Libby case. As the editorial states, clemency allows the judicial process to continue through appeals and offers the possibility of reversal...a much more desirable conclusion. |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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I saw those comments by schumer - lol!
he talks about honor and moral leadership? 
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Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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The Left is in a real maelstrom!!
| Quote: | Libby in Da House [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
The House Judiciary Committee has officially announced its plans for a hearing into President Bush's commutation of Scooter Libby's prison term.
The hearing will take place next Wednesday morning; titled "The Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power for Executive Branch Officials."
"In light of yesterday's announcement by the President that he was commuting the prison sentence for Scooter Libby, it is imperative that Congress look into presidential authority to grant clemency, and how such power may be abused," John Conyers said. "Taken to its extreme, the use of such authority could completely circumvent the law enforcement process and prevent credible efforts to investigate wrongdoing in the executive branch."
National Review-The Corner |
WHAAAT?? The President has ABSOLUTE clemencyauthority!
So do they think they will re-write the Constitution??
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“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Maybe Bush will pardon the border agents on Independence Day.
That would really frost the left.
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: |
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In February, 2001, addressing the Rich pardon by Clinton and pending hearings, Schumer said, "To me there is no excuse for pardoning a fugitive from justice. You can't let somebody opt out of the system by running away, and opt into the system by being pardoned. Doesn't matter how weak the case might have been, doesn't matter how much charitable work the man did after he fled the country. He should be tried by the rules and play by the rules."
But went on to say,
"I think the American people want us to move on. The appropriate places for this are, of course, the court of public opinion, which I don't think will judge the pardon kindly, and if there are real allegations of wrongdoing with the investigative authorities. I am not sure these hearings serve much purpose other than to flail."
Also interesting were many Democrats votes of 'no' or 'present' on the September 1999 nonbinding resolution "expressing the sense of Congress that the President should not have granted clemency to terrorists," after 16 Puerto Rican FALN terrorists sentences were commuted by Clinton. All 41 no votes were Democrats as were all 72 who answered 'present.'
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1999/roll398.xml
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kate
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Good grief, now Bubba himself has the audacity to throw some digs NYTimes
| Quote: | “Yeah, but I think the facts were different,” Mr. Clinton said. “I think there are guidelines for what happens when somebody is convicted. You’ve got to understand, this is consistent with their philosophy; they believe that they should be able to do what they want to do, and that the law is a minor obstacle.”
“It’s wrong to out that C.I.A. agent and wrong to try to cover it up,” Mr. Clinton added. “And no one was ever fired from the White House for doing it.”
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His comments make NO sense. Bubba never had to answer for his pardon list - and um they were also 'convicted'
And Hello...What part of Armitage did it, don't people understand
whitehouse.gov
Statement by the President on Executive Clemency for Lewis Libby
| Quote: | | Critics of the investigation have argued that a special counsel should not have been appointed, nor should the investigation have been pursued after the Justice Department learned who leaked Ms. Plame's name to columnist Robert Novak. |
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greasepaint
Seaman
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 177
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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I will have an especuially dim view of Bush
if he pardons Libby in the event the convictions are upheld, thus wasting the Govt's time.
I assume the convictions are felonies,
anyone know for sure?
what are the implications of being
a felon-perjerer, other than the
social stigma? |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| greasepaint wrote: | I will have an especuially dim view of Bush
if he pardons Libby in the event the convictions are upheld, thus wasting the Govt's time. |
Apparently you're no fan of presidential pardons in general...not an unreasonable position in my opinion. However, given that the presidential prerogative exists (I'm unsure of its foundation although I believe its constitutional...perhaps someone knows fersure?) and there appears to be little public outcry to change that authority, the call becomes a subjective one on the part of the president requiring no defense other than in the court of public opinion should he choose to engage. If you don't buy into his rationale, so be it.
In this case, I strongly concur in and reiterate the following...
| Quote: | | The decision to spare Libby time in prison is not only humane but also just, for the underlying leak of Valerie Plame's identity was committed not by Libby but by Richard Armitage, and once that was known, the investigation should have stopped. |
As to "wasting the governments time", the phenomenon is HARDLY unique nor limited to the judicial process and is historically rife with partisan motivation inre "special prosecutor" investigations. Now witness Conyer's call for a congressional hearing and Chuck Schumer's prior observation in that regard as Lew noted above. More "time wasting"?
Nor would I use the standard of a "felony conviction" as the sole determinant of an investigation's appropriateness or legitimacy. The degree to which confidence in government and the judicial process itself are enhanced in the public view are also important. In this regard, your mileage may certainly vary but, in my opinion, the Bush Administration was exonerated as a product of this partisan driven "investigation".
| Quote: | (which I assume the convictions are felonies,
anyone know for sure? |
Perjury is a felony.
| Quote: | what are the implications of being a felon-perjerer, other than the
social stigma? |
If you're a former president, you can, perhaps, add 20% to your lecture fees? |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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baldeagle
PO2
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 362
Location: Grand Saline, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | However, given that the presidential prerogative exists (I'm unsure of its foundation although I believe its constitutional...perhaps someone knows fersure?) |
Its covered in the original portion of the Constitution under
Article II, Section 2, Presidential powers, to wit;
| Quote: | | Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. |
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"In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home." --George Washington |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to Lew and baldeagle for the info.
Taranto weighs-in on the stunning hypocrisy and hyperbole of Nancy Pelosi, though I disagree with his apparent inclination that a "pardon" might be more appropriate...
| Quote: | BEST OF THE WEB TODAY
BY JAMES TARANTO
Tuesday, July 3, 2007 3:23 p.m. EDT
Clemency for Terrorists
In August 1999 President Clinton granted executive clemency to 16 members of FALN, the Puerto Rican terror group behind some 130 bombings, including one that killed four people at New York's Fraunces Tavern in 1975. Even the ultraliberal New York Times looked askance:
To be sure, an American President has an absolute power to pardon. But that does not relieve him of the obligation to defend any and every decision to intervene in the criminal justice system. Indeed, this President's rare use of the pardoning power makes it all the more important for him to reveal his reasoning. Of more than 3,000 applications for clemency filed since 1993, he has granted only 3. The suspicion is rampant that his motivation was a political effort to please the Puerto Rican community that is crucial to Mrs. Clinton's hopes in the coming Senate race from New York. The House voted 311-41 for a nonbinding resolution "expressing the sense of Congress that the President should not have granted clemency to terrorists." All 41 of those voting "no" were Democrats, as were 71 of the 72 members who voted "present" (the other was a self-styled socialist who abjured formal membership in the party).
Nancy Pelosi, now speaker of the House, did not vote. But the Congressional Record reveals that was only because she showed up late;
Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Chairman, on the last vote, H. Con. Res. 180, I was detained in traffic while returning to the Capitol. Had I been present, I would have voted "no." Pelosi was unwilling to criticize a president of her own party when he turned loose terrorists convicted of such crimes as seditious conspiracy, possession of unregistered firearms and interstate transportation of a stolen vehicle. Keep that in mind as you read her statement yesterday:
The President's commutation of Scooter Libby's prison sentence does not serve justice, condones criminal conduct, and is a betrayal of trust of the American people.
The President said he would hold accountable anyone involved in the Valerie Plame leak [sic] case. By his action today, the President shows his word is not to be believed. He has abandoned all sense of fairness when it comes to justice, he has failed to uphold the rule of law, and he has failed to hold his Administration accountable. For our part, we're just happy that a good and patriotic man won't have to go to prison as a sacrifice to the Angry Left. Plame kerfuffle personage Matt Cooper makes a good point:Why not just pardon the guy? Why leave him with the stigmata of a convicted felon and a $250,000 fine to add to his legal bills--even if they are taken care of by the generosity of so many of his friends. (By the way, can the Scooter defense fund now release the names of donors?) If Bush had the courage of his convictions, he would have been like Jack Nicholson in a A Few Good Men and admitted that he thought [Plame's blowhard husband, Joe] Wilson was a jerk and that he believed what happened afterwards was right. Instead, Bush vowed to take action against the leakers.
By the way, what about the real "leaker" of Plame's "identity," Richard Armitage? Is he ever going to face "justice"?
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