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zinfella
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az
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 Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: "Bud" Day, being Bud Day |
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The Fox new website has a story about Bud Day standing up for John McCain's character.
<http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/08/mccains-former-hanoi-cell-mate-describes-character-in-deplorable-conditions/>
Bud Day stood up for John McCain, but I didn't see McCain doing any of that for Day back in 04, when Swiftboaters & POWs were being slandered because they were vocal about JFK's lies.
Honor must mean different things to different people.
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: Re: "Bud" Day, being Bud Day |
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| zinfella wrote: | | Honor must mean different things to different people. |
I think the concept of "honor" means the same to everyone, but what might define "honorable" is not an absolute unaffected by experience, knowledge, culture, ideology, religion, perspective or a hundred other considerations.
As far as I'm concerned, Colonel Day's endorsement of McCain, given their larger-than-life shared experience, is more than understandable. I find it to be highly persuasive in mitigating the negative perception I have of John McCain, his uninformed, unfair, premature comments on SVPT notwithstanding. |
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LewWaters
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Joined: 18 May 2004
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Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I respect Col. Day much more than I do Senator McCain.
I can respect McCain's service and time as a POW, but his senatorial record, especially the last 7 years, is disturbing to me.
I can understand and appreciate Col. Days endorsement of McCain, but for me, the jury is still out and McCain's return to the amnesty deal for illegals and boasting of his gang of 14 does not help my opinion of him.
A lot is riding on his choice for V.P.
He may get my vote anyways, but it will be a reluctant vote to keep the leftwinger out.
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zinfella
Rear Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Re: "Bud" Day, being Bud Day |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | zinfella wrote: | | Honor must mean different things to different people. |
I think the concept of "honor" means the same to everyone, but what might define "honorable" is not an absolute unaffected by experience, knowledge, culture, ideology, religion, perspective or a hundred other considerations.
As far as I'm concerned, Colonel Day's endorsement of McCain, given their larger-than-life shared experience, is more than understandable. I find it to be highly persuasive in mitigating the negative perception I have of John McCain, his uninformed, unfair, premature comments on SVPT notwithstanding. |
I absolutely respect John McCain's service, # 1, so we can get that out of the way.
I do not think that McCain should have denied the Swift Vet & POWs, knowing Day to be both affiliated with the group, and to be an honorable man. He knew better!
I will never believe that McCain didn't know what a ******* Kerry is, and that he didn't know the folks here were doing the right thing. It was McCain's own warped way of looking at things that prompted his response concerning this site, unfortunately including Bud Day, the man that now stands up for him.
#1, I certainly do not want to get into it with you over this, I have my opinion, and you have yours, which I respect, but do not agree with.
While I do respect John McCain's service, I do not agree with his response to this group.
I do not expect Bud Day to ever deny John McCain, but it sure would be nice if McCain reciprocated.
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gmez2001
PO3
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: JFK |
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I've got tremendous respect for MOH recipient Day but McCain hasn't left Kerry's side for one minute. Tremendous amount of information from this website and other media has McCain with his head in the sand as usual steadfastly planted in JFK's corner.
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TEWSPilot
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: Modified Stockholm Syndrome |
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There are several factors at work regarding McCain's support for Kerry and his attack on the SBVT side. First, he feels more allegiance to his "colleages" in the Senate than he does to anyone else, including his former military colleages. Kerry is also a "military veteran", McCain for some reason has forgotten about or been "compensated" to soothe any old hard feelings toward Kerry for his actions in the 70's, so that gives him an additional inside track with McCain. Senators live in an elitist "Ivory Tower", and they believe they are the smartest people on Earth and know what is right and just and best for the world. Anyone attacking one of them will incur the wrath of ALL Senators, with some exceptions who have not become completely indoctrinated to the "inside the beltway" mentality. McCain has it bad, along with Kennedy, Boxer, Reed, and all of the Democrats. Second, he is a Liberal, as is Kerry, so he thinks like a Liberal and automatically assumes anyone attacking his side or his "colleages" must be part of the "vast Right-Wing Conspiracy". Notice how often they tried to tie the SBVT to the Repbulican Party and to GW Bush. Finally, look at how McCain is running his current campaign. He thinks he will gain more votes by posturing as the "Mr. Clean", "no negative attacks" candidate, so even when his own party runs negative ads simply exposing the truth about the opponents, and even when it is just a state office election, he condemns his party. He is very immature when it comes to understanding how politics works in spite of his decades of holding political office. Maybe that helps explain both his failure to respect Col. Day and the SBVT and his miserable record in the Senate regarding what is best for the American people. He is lauded in the "mainstream" Liberal press for his "courage" to act as a "maveric" and "reach across the aisle" to his Liberal "colleages". Funny, he should be castigated for reaching toward his Conservative colleages and the SBVT with the back of his hand or his middle finger. As someone noted, meet Citizen McCain.
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: "Bud" Day, being Bud Day |
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I'm not exactly sure just what we "disagree" on, but a few observations...
| zinfella wrote: | | I absolutely respect John McCain's service, # 1, so we can get that out of the way. |
I understand that zin, and I never suggested or assumed otherwise. I was attempting to respond to your observation that "honor must mean different things to different people".
| zinfella wrote: | | I do not think that McCain should have denied the Swift Vet & POWs, knowing Day to be both affiliated with the group, and to be an honorable man. He knew better! |
Let's be accurate here zin. As I recall, McCain made his one and only (as I also recall?) unfortunate, uninformed, hurtful and thoughtless comment during the media uproar surrounding the first SBVT ad almost 2 months before the POWs joined forces with the SBVT. Up until that point, the POWs had aligned themselves with Carlton Sherwood and his production of "Stolen Honor". Hence it is somewhat inaccurate to characterize McCain's comments as being directed towards his fellow POWs as well. It is certainly arguable, I think, that had the POWs joined the SBVT campaign at the onset, John McCain's "comment" might never have been made or at least tempered to a much, much greater degree.
Whether he should have "known better" at the time is a valid argument with which I concur...he SHOULD have "known better" about the details of the case being made against Kerry by SBVT. However, like 99% of the rest of the population, perhaps SBVT hadn't sufficiently penetrated his radar (thanks to media suppression) and his "comment" was, arguably, dreadfully uninformed.
| zinfella wrote: | | I will never believe that McCain didn't know what a ******* Kerry is, and that he didn't know the folks here were doing the right thing. |
I think he does now, but he painted himself into a corner with his thoughtless, untempered, knee-jerk "comment" (a character trait that has not gone uncommented upon) and will continue to pay the piper for it.
| zinfella wrote: | | It was McCain's own warped way of looking at things that prompted his response concerning this site, unfortunately including Bud Day, the man that now stands up for him. |
See above.
| zinfella wrote: | | #1, I certainly do not want to get into it with you over this, I have my opinion, and you have yours, which I respect, but do not agree with. |
Hopefully I've explained my position a bit better...but I don't see any major point of disagreement.
| zinfella wrote: | | While I do respect John McCain's service, I do not agree with his response to this group. |
Nor do I.
| zinfella wrote: | | I do not expect Bud Day to ever deny John McCain, but it sure would be nice if McCain reciprocated. |
Again, I think your assertion that John McCain "denied" Bud Day is overstated, but it is certainly unarguable that McCain did not publicly support Col. Day and his fellow POWs. He will continue to pay a significant price for that political calculus. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: "Bud" Day, being Bud Day |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: |
| zinfella wrote: | | I will never believe that McCain didn't know what a ******* Kerry is, and that he didn't know the folks here were doing the right thing. |
I think he does now... |
I have seen no indication that such is the case.
Where is the evidence , Me#1 ?
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: Re: "Bud" Day, being Bud Day |
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| carpro wrote: | I have seen no indication that such is the case.
Where is the evidence , Me#1 ? |
Just an assumption on my part carpro. It also assumes that he took the time to educate himself on the case SVPT made against Kerry which I'm inclined to believe he had not done prior to his comment.
Since that initial comment, I don't recall McCain being particularly vocal on the subject again. I'd like to think that might denote some misgivings or regret.
Of course, I might be completely wrong but only John McCain knows fersure. |
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zinfella
Rear Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: |
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OK #1, we aren't so far apart after all, and your point about the timing of McCain's comments concerning SBVT and the POW's is well taken. However, there has been more than enough time for him to either apologize, or at least admit that he was talking out of his ***.
Not that I expect him to ever acknowledge that he took Kerry's side over a very large group of honorable men. He cannot be that stupid, therefore, I think it was deliberate.
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I was reminded last evening of a small but perhaps notable observation inre McCain/SVPT by Scott Swett in "To Set The Record Straight"...
| Quote: | Political theater and free speech
Also on August 25, the Kerry campaign sent former Senator Max Cleland - who had lost three limbs during a grenade accident in Vietnam - to the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas, to deliver a letter demanding that President Bush denounce the Swift Vets' "character assassination" of Kerry. Several Democratic senators who had served in the military signed the letter, but the name of Senator John McCain was conspicuously absent.
"To Set The Record Straight" p.147 |
I think it is more than a fair assumption that McCain, given his earlier statement, must have been the recipient of significant pressure from Kerry and his campaign to co-sign this letter. That he elected not to do so might qualify as some "evidence" of McCain re-considering his position inre SBVT that carpro had asked me for earlier. |
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zinfella
Rear Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | I was reminded last evening of a small but perhaps notable observation inre McCain/SVPT by Scott Swett in "To Set The Record Straight"...
| Quote: | Political theater and free speech
Also on August 25, the Kerry campaign sent former Senator Max Cleland - who had lost three limbs during a grenade accident in Vietnam - to the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas, to deliver a letter demanding that President Bush denounce the Swift Vets' "character assassination" of Kerry. Several Democratic senators who had served in the military signed the letter, but the name of Senator John McCain was conspicuously absent.
"To Set The Record Straight" p.147 |
I think it is more than a fair assumption that McCain, given his earlier statement, must have been the recipient of significant pressure from Kerry and his campaign to co-sign this letter. That he elected not to do so might qualify as some "evidence" of McCain re-considering his position inre SBVT that carpro had asked me for earlier. |
I remember Max doing that, #1, and how ridiculous it made him look. I did not recall that McCain's signature wasn't on that letter. That was little more than a political stunt by the Democrats, and that's is exactly how I looked at it, giving it scant attention. Many Dems were doing their own character assassination, and Cindy Sheehan living outside the the entrance to Crawford ranch, embarrassing the memory of her fallen son.
In fairness, I think McCain might well have been re-considering his position on SBVT, since he didn't sign that letter, enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.
IMO, the topic of SVBT will publicly come up to McCain, at some point, during this election cycle. We'll see how that plays out.
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Harvuskong
Seaman
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| zinfella wrote: |
IMO, the topic of SVBT will publicly come up to McCain, at some point, during this election cycle. We'll see how that plays out. |
How should it come up or how would you want it to happen??
Any and all ideas and opinions are welcome. |
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zinfella
Rear Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Harvuskong wrote: | | zinfella wrote: |
IMO, the topic of SVBT will publicly come up to McCain, at some point, during this election cycle. We'll see how that plays out. |
How should it come up or how would you want it to happen??
Any and all ideas and opinions are welcome. |
How would I want it to happen? I don't think what I want has anything to do with what will take place. If I had my druthers, McCain would not be the nominee, and John F'ing Kerry would not have been one either.
I just think that before November SVBT will come up in conversation with McCain. There's a very good chance that when the going gets tough, the Obama campaign will accuse McCain of swiftboating him, for one stupid reason or another. Obama loves to play the victim. McCain will have to reply to that, and what will he say to it? He knows the true meaning of the word, will he say so? Will he say that Kerry has never shown SVBT to lie? Will he defend his comrades? Or, will he be politically expedient, and keep the myth alive?
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TEWSPilot
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: Sounding retreat |
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Don't count on McCain defending the Swiftvets. He just threw another well respected pastor under the bus for criticizing the Islamic Jihadists, with quotes from their own leaders and from the Quran, because he doesn't want to offend ANYONE, even the enemy. What a gutless politician he has become...except when it comes to attacking his own base...but on second thought, maybe patriotic, God-fearing, conservative, secure-borders Americans aren't his true base. He spends more time "crossing the aisle" than chickens do crossing the road.  |
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