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HardCorps
Ensign
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 65
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject: Kerry has 3 altered Silver Star Citations |
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Citations and medals themselves are paper and cloth, but they represent the most important sacrifices of all, the paper and cloth can not give men importance or honor, It is our soldier's actions that give the award it's importance and honor.
Kerry has 3 different Silver Star citation certificates from the 60's to the 80's: a comparison of the three copies has too many changes for this post and the required "eyewitness statements" are still missing but why the contradictions?:
In 1969-1st citation certificate mentions: -"an ENEMY SOLDIER sprang up from his position not ten feet from PCF -94 and fled."
-Kerry then leaped ashore pursued the man and kills him behind a hooch. there is a second page that is also different from the other 2 re-writes. signed by Adm. Zumwalt- no date
1970's-2nd citation certificate changes: -"beached his boat only ten feet away from a VC rocket position"(changed from ENEMY SOLDIER to rocket position) Why does this matter?
This 2nd citation mentions nothing of a single enemy soldier or a hooch(all wording is removed) but instead someone types in "Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire...." Kerry had close to 20 armed men on his boat. This is the big change from a wounded lone VC to a numerically superior force(this means over 20 enemy VC against Kerry). These changes and a Brand new certificate were signed by ADM. Hyland CINCPACFLT not the originator. John O'Neil has mentioned this several times on TV.
| Quote: | SECNAVINST 1650.1G
(1) Individuals must have distinguished themselves above those who have already won distinction for heroism.
(2) Individuals must have performed a worthwhile act or an act that was considered worthwhile at the time. Needless and foolish risking of life, or tempting of fate is not considered worthwhile. |
1980's-3rd citation certificate changes: added “By his brave action, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty" no date, signed by John Lehman SECNAV in the 80's * I do not know if kerry was a Senator yet.
***
- They also state "With utter disregard for HIS own safety and the enemy rockets he again ordered a charge on the enemy. Beached his boat..." But he was not alone and if he knew there was more than one rocket and then beached on purpose, that shows he was deliberately disregarding his men, or the citation is wrong or he made it up. Imagine an officer driving his 5 ton truck full of men into a minefield on purpose so he can get out to kill a wounded guy with an RPG.
Disregarded HIS own safety! He needlessly increased the danger to his men, and the embarked infantry (which didn't get off or fire a shot despite a numerically superior enemy and "intense fire")
He endangered his perfectly good craft, possessing speed, firepower, maneuverability, and communications. Kerry's running aground also caused his primary heavy machine gun rendered useless.
He choose to create a grounded, flammable, thin skinned, exposed, confused COFFIN full of men. Yet, all these men and kerry trained repeatedly to conduct an "action drill" to do the opposite.
When you lead men into fire you never deliberately endanger them for your personal gain. Even if the enemy threat looks minor.
There is a good rule in combat- "If a tactic works and it wasn't luck, it's not wrong"
But what is described vividly in the 3 citations is significantly contradictory.
That's the problem, this really did not work as described otherwise kerry would have done it again, and the Swift Boats and later Vietnamese Navy would have made it a tactic for winning the Delta and the whole coastline.
The only close eyewitnesses were all written up for awards for the same action and I doubt they ever read Kerry's after action report.
Conclusion: It appears Kerry had the wheel, deliberately gambled 20 mens lives for 1 wounded VC and a medal, changed the story 3 times and he got lucky.
However, these contradictions could mean nothing, and if you have never gone though the precise and careful process of writing and submitting awards both in garrison and combat you may say why is changing a citation a couple times over 2 decades a big deal. Then why re-write them at all? If it was good-to-go back then, what's the problem Lt.?
If Kerry lost the original or threw it over a fence, then there are copies in Naval Records or on his wall. But if they can't find one then just change the words to make the situation sound more desperate, then delete the one wounded VC that made kerry look foolish while trying to get his men, 10+ allies and a perfectly good boat damaged or killed for a damned $2 ribbon that wasn't worth anything because by risking his men for glory he is worthless.
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Last edited by HardCorps on Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:52 am; edited 5 times in total |
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RGScott
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Newport News, VA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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How did Hanoi John get three citations for one action and one award?
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Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.
ee cummings |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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The citation for the same star was re-written twice - each time making John Kerry seem bigger and better than he was.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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That isn't unusual for awards when the reviewer looks at it and realizes the recommendation probably won't fly.
Keep in mind that the writer of the award has FITREPs too so a disapproved award could look bad on their record.
It would be very interesting to see who all the authors were of the citation text to simply see the chain of events behind it.
Probably no conspiracy, simply admin BS that is part and parcel to the job.
Just trying to be fair here.
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Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
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HardCorps
Ensign
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 65
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hardcorps' wife here,
I commend your fairness. but I'd like to know what you think about rewrites spanning 20 years and while holding a position of some authority. I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist by any means but it just looks odd especially without the other documentation.
Could you explain admin issues that would create a likely need for rewrites, since it doesn't appear they were lost or damaged. Husband's not here to 'splain it to me right now.
Thanks,
Kate
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-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom |
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Grampa
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Eureka, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| GoophyDog wrote: | That isn't unusual for awards when the reviewer looks at it and realizes the recommendation probably won't fly.
Keep in mind that the writer of the award has FITREPs too so a disapproved award could look bad on their record.
It would be very interesting to see who all the authors were of the citation text to simply see the chain of events behind it.
Probably no conspiracy, simply admin BS that is part and parcel to the job.
Just trying to be fair here. |
Wrong. The citation is written ONCE on the Award Certificate which is presented with the medal. While recommendations can and are re-written, only ONE recommendation gets signed and only ONE citation is used when the award is presented. If there are three different Citations, then some forgery has been going on. Its not hard to get those blank certificates.
Is there a link that shows these citations side by side?
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Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home! |
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RGScott
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Newport News, VA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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"Wrong. The citation is written ONCE on the Award Certificate which is presented with the medal. While recommendations can and are re-written, only ONE recommendation gets signed and only ONE citation is used when the award is presented."
That was my thinking.
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Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.
ee cummings |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Grampa wrote: |
Is there a link that shows these citations side by side? |
I will shortly put up two versions of Kerry's Bronze Star and two versions of his Silver Star.
Both of the re-writes were signed by John Lehman, SECNAV at the time.
There is a third version of one of the stars floating around out there somewhere. These were snagged when Kerry first put this military stuff up on his web site - last time I checked, only CDR Lehman's versions were available on the official JFK site.
They removed Peck's after-action reports and much of the initial material that was available. Sanitizers went to work after it appeared that Kerry was claiming Peck's actions as his own.
I'll get the jpg's up, shortly - but they're big. I will only leave them up a short time because of the bandwidth issue.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother
Last edited by Navy_Navy_Navy on Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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baldeagl
PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:00 am Post subject: |
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I don't give a crap about bandwidth. You put them up. I'll copy them. And they'll stay up until this whole sordid affair is over.
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antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:31 am Post subject: |
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baldeagl, they're up here for a while:
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21483#21483
I don't have the third revision of one of the citations - I can't ever keep it straight which is which, but I think it's the Silver Star that has three different versions.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps I need to clarify and I appologize to the group if, by my miscommunication and misunderstanding I fubar'd.
What I was referring to were the citation working papers, not the citations themselves. I misread the initial post, thinking they were just that, working papers. Shoot, I got slapped on several occasions by my captain when I tried to write up some of my folks for awards.
I've never heard of a citation, once presented, being re-written. If that's the case then there is definitely something hinky going on.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Actually, it is the citations that we're talking about. It isn't routine that they are amended, but it's not uncommon.
In Kerry's case, as you can see by the jpg's, the wording was made more forceful in the versions signed by CDR Lehman, SECNAV.
The third version of the Silver Star acquired so much added verbiage that it required two pages, instead of one. 
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/jksilverstar.pdf
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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HardCorps
Ensign
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 65
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:18 am Post subject: Re: kerry site removes Silver Star Citation |
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All Hands, here is the deal on the 3 Silver Star Citations:
1st Citation (2 pages) signed by ADM. Zumwald 1969
2nd Citation signed by ADM. Hyland
3rd Citation signed by SECNAV John Lehman 1980's
The 2nd and 3rd are almost the same with about 10 words changed.
The 1st Citation is the key to understanding the deliberate distortion. (read my original post up top)
These distortions are not minor in any way, and are in fact relevant to the big picture, otherwise I would move on to bigger fish- I am working on over 10 big Topics that will bring justice to kerry. What I mean is that I know kerry's Silver Star is fraudulent, but 50% of the TV debates have focused on medals and his other crimes are so much bigger. ( treason, winter soldier, POW's, Paul Galanti)
Here is a problem - I got the link for all 3 Citations last night from the kerry-Edwards homepage and printed out all 3 citations for my post.
***I just went to the kerry-Edwards site and the 1st Citation is now MISSING, taken off today. Some body else check it and tell me I'm not crazy please.
EDIT UPDATE(21AUG 21:31)- Kerry'-Edwards "Silver Star Citation".pdf link is still missing the 1st Silver Star citation originally located with #2 and #3. The 1st citation can be found on the Kerry site separate from the other 2, under "Military Service Awards" pdf. Why did they remove #1 from the other 2 ? what's important is the contradictions of #1 and #2.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html
_________________
__________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom
Last edited by HardCorps on Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:40 am; edited 3 times in total |
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sixdogteam
Seaman
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Upper Wabash River Valley
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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My head's going to explode! Kerry is evil.
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Grampa
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Eureka, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: kerry site removes Siver Star Citation |
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| HardCorps wrote: | All Hands, here is the deal on the 3 Silver Star Citations:
1st Citation (2 pages) signed by ADM. Zumwald 1969
2nd Citation signed by ADM. Hyland
3rd Citation signed by SECNAV John Lehman 1980's
The 2nd and 3rd are almost the same with about 10 words changed.
The 1st Citation is the key to understanding the deliberate distortion. (read my original post up top)
These distortions are not minor in any way, and are in fact relevant to the big picture, otherwise I would move on to bigger fish- I am working on over 10 big Topics that will bring justice to kerry. What I mean is that I know kerry's Silver Star is fraudulent, but 50% of the TV debates have focused on medals and his other crimes are so much bigger. ( treason, winter soldier, POW's, Paul Galanti)
Here is a problem - I got the link for all 3 Citations last night from the kerry-Edwards homepage and printed out all 3 citations for my post.
***I just went to the kerry-Edwards site and the 1st Citation is now MISSING, taken off today. Some body else check it and tell me I'm not crazy please.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html |
This is all really weird. When was Kerrys medal actually awarded? If he continued to pursue his silver star over a span of 2o years with multiple rewrites to alter it enought to "qualify" for a SS, then this is more proof of him being a medal chaser and glory hound.
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Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home! |
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