SwiftVets.com

diogenes · Seaman Recruit Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 10

One of Keith Nolan's posts closes with: "Can we finally all admit that
the Vietnam War was a gray-shaded mess about which good men can
disagree, and that John Kerry came to his anti-war position honestly?"
I'd like to expand on this a little, because I'm still confused about
this organization---not why it's anti-Kerry, but why it's pro-Bush.

All wars are "gray-shaded messes" - Dresden and Hiroshima were far
worse (at least in raw scale) than anything that we were responsible
for in Vietnam. Vietnam was different, not because it was grayer or
nastier, but because unlike WWII, or Korea, or Gulf I, good men not
only could disagree, but *did* disagree. They disagreed violently, and
bitterly, and a lot of people were hurt in that cross-fire.

The bitterness isn't really surprising. If people have any opinion
about something like this it will be a strong one. If a war is just
and necessary, the "messiness" is an unavoidable cost. If the war is
unnecessary, then it's worth almost any cost to *stop* it. In a
situation like this it's not surprising that rhetoric gets out of
hand---sometimes way out of hand. So young men go to war as patriots,
and come back to be branded as baby-killers. And those young men were
certainly justified in being angry at that situation. It's one thing
to get shot at, but this was something different---this was a cost of
war, a type of causuality, that no-one had seen before.

However, it's clear to me that the situation is not solely the fault
of the anti-war movement. If you're angry at them, surely you should
also be angry at Johnsons and McNamaras and Nixons that let the
country be so bitterly divided---the men that took America into a war
that was not accepted, not viewed as just and necessary, by so many
otherwise reasonable people.

And if you're angry at them, surely you should be angry at Bush. Bush
was able, largely because of his unprecedented popularity in the
aftermath of 9/11, to initiate the most contentious war since Vietnam.
Whether you believe he was right or wrong in going into Iraq, surely
you agree that Bush has done a poor job in convincing America that
this war is just and necessary. And on top of that his "mission
accomplished" optimism has done little to prepare us for the very real
sacrifices that were and will be needed.

You can blame us liberals if you like - but, remember, this bitter
split between pro- and anti-war doesn't always happen. It didn't
happen in Korea, and it didn't happen (much anyway) in Gulf I. We're
seeing now the same sort of divide that we had in the sixties, we're
seeing it on George Bush's watch, and I believe we're going to see the
same sort of collateral damage to the young men and women who come
back from Iraq. Maybe you had it tough coming back from Vietnam, but
would you trade places with an MP coming back from a stint at Abu
Ghraib?

Think about it. Maybe you all have hidden reasons for this vets for
truth thing, but if any of you are truly worried about Kerry
besmirching the honor of vets in '71...well, I think there's a lot
more bemirching coming up directly, and if that's your main worry,
there might be far more productive things to do about it.

Greenhat · LCDR Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 405

95 bxl · Seaman Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 179

Besides, I can be for Bush because Kerry is a psychotic, self-confessed war criminal.

You don't mind, awfully, do you?

Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

Kerry may not be THE root of the problem, but he was certainly AT the root of the problem.

Marching under the VC flag, lying to Congress, slandering a generation of soldiers, meeting with the enemy in violation of US Code and the UCMJ, propagating the enemy's KGB-crafted disinformation.

Hanoi John Kerry made his own bed and he can damn well lie in it. (no stupid pun intended, but it damn well fits!)
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

diogenes · Seaman Recruit Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 10

Marine4life · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject:

Blame the liberals for dividing this Nation for political gain rather supporting our troops. Disinformation about the war is truely a democrat baby right now. Their stand should be "lets win the dam thing and get out of there" instead of disinforming and prolonging it for ploitical gain. Demo's don't give a rats a** about the troops, all they have shown me is that they will do everything to make Bush look bad even if it means sacrificing our kid's. Kerry is only a mouth piece and not the whole cause, the party is the root. When Clinton went into Kosovo I don't recall the Republicans campaigning against our troops like is being done today.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

diogenes · Seaman Recruit Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 10

hist/student · Lieutenant Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 243

retracted

fortdixlover

diogenes · Seaman Recruit Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 10

hist/student · Lieutenant Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 243

[retraction

Scott

diogenes · Seaman Recruit Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 10

Greenhat · LCDR Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 405

Marine4life · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:35 am Post subject:

Diogenes, I really think that a weapon which does not work is a bad example for people speaking out. That is expected. What I mean is the constant rhetoric about the big lie on this war and that their comander lied to just war monger etc. The lies and misinformation about Bush and this war has a devastating effect on our troops. Morale is affected tremendously when the troops hear this crap, news constantly saying that they are there for no reason. Believe it or not the troops hear it everytime Kerry, Hillary, Kennedy, Dashole, Gephart say that Bush lied to get us into a war that shouldn't have happened. I'm sorry but this war is absolutly necessary. Nobody can dispute the fact that Iraq was supplying training camps for terrorists and also money for terrorists. I would much rather the troops clean house in their back yard and not in mine. Sadaam killed a million of his own people with serin gas, we have dug up the mass graves, now what part of Sadaam had WMD's doesn't everybody understand? Bush had some faulty intellegence and he admits that, but how many times do these terrorists need to use these weapons before the left say's OK they have WMD's. Our military dug up a new well preserved Russian Mig fighter that was buried in the sand, clearly a banned item. The report that I read said that there were 19 more that they are digging up. I am sorry but a mig is capable of delivering a nuclear weapon to London in an hour from Iraq and that I consider a WMD. The split in this country, pure democratic at this point. My son asked me if the people really think they are animals and untrained idiots, that my friend is unsatisfactory with me. The liberals are running on a Vietnam platform and trying to portray or kids just as they did in Nam and I won't stand for it. They want to make our kid's suffer for another 30 years for political gain and us Vets can not let that happen again at the hands of the same traitor. My son has nothing to be ashamed of, he is a US Marine not a UN Marine, the Marine Corps that he is in is the same one that I was in, full of rich tradition and profesionalism that has carried for over 200 years since Tun Tavern. I will not let Kerry divide and destroy this country or my Corps. Semper Fi
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.