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Buddy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 18
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 Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:07 pm Post subject: Kerry was the Boston Strangler |
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Interesting reading. [/url]http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3539
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Buddy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, don't know how to hot link that url? If someone knows how to do it please do so.
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | October 19, 1967, evaluation from Captain Allen W. Slifer:
A top notch officer in every measurable trait. Intelligent, mature, and rich in educational background and experience, ENS Kerry is one of the finest young officers I have ever met and without question one of the most promising.
September 3, 1968, evaluation from Captain E.W. Harper, Jr.:
LTJG KERRY is an intelligent and competent young naval officer who has performed his duties in an excellent to outstanding manner.
December 18, 1969, evaluation from LCDR George M. Elliott:
In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity. On one occasion while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several enemy KIA.
LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training program.
During the period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star medal, the Bronze Star medal, the Purple Heart medal (2nd and 3rd awards).
Evaluation co-signed by Joseph Streuli and George M. Elliott on January 28, 1969, and March 17, 1969, respectively:
... exhibited all of the traits of an officer in a combat environment. He frequently exhibited a high sense of imagination and judgment in planning operations against the enemy in the Mekong Delta.
March 2, 1970 evaluation from Admiral Walter F. Schlech:
... one of the finest young officers with whom I have served in a long naval career. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Jan 1973 evaluation: "Where the hell is Lt Bush? Is he out chasing skirts again? Would someone tell him that he's either taking a urinalysis or we're going to make him show up and do crossword puzzles? I've had it with the 'If I can't fly, I'm not showing up' nonsense!"
Admiral Schlomo Schmederickski
(just a parody, folks, just a parody) |
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Buddy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Mikest, I see you must have looked at that web page I mentioned. You are obviously well practised in the posting to talk boards. Do you know how to hot link that url for others to easily access it? I see you posted a summary of Kerry's evaluations. And it didn't take long I might add. Are you working for the Kerry Campaign? And what is your background? I'm just a sailor that served in Kerry's outfit and was severly wounded by an RPG in Aug. 1969. The Navy put me out on disability on Dec. 30, 1969. I thought I was trying to keep the Vietnamese people from being subjugated to the communist invasion from the country of North Vietnam. I truly believe that Mr. Kerry's actions before the American people and the rest of the world in 1971 was a large nail in the coffin of the people of South Vietnam. Instead of running around protesting the actions of his fellow servicemen he could have been visiting wounded sailors in Bethesda Naval Hospital. It wasn't that far(a few miles) from the center of his activities in downtown Washington, D.C.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Kerry was the Boston Strangler |
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Yes, interesting.
Could start to answer the question about why JFK was assigned to four different units in four months?
| Quote: |
Call sign: Boston strangler
May 13th, 2004
Thomas Wright was one of John F. Kerry's fellow Swift boat officers in Vietnam. Since Wright outranked Kerry, he was Kerry's sometime boat group Officer-in-Charge, so Wright had occasion to observe Kerry’s behavior and attitudes, and the circumstances surrounding his early departure from the war zone. The intervening years have not dimmed his memories.
When the Swift boats of Coastal Division 11 sailed into harm’s way from their Phu Quoc Island base of An Thoi, for missions along the rivers of Vietnam’s southwesternmost Kien Giang and An Xuyen provinces, they communicated by radio. When they did, boat captains adopted distinctive, often humorous call signs for identification purposes. Eldon Thompson was “Mary Poppins,” William Schachte was “Baccardi Charlie,” James T. Grace was “Twiggy,” and Tom Wright was “Dudley Do-Right.” When John Kerry radioed another Swift boat, he used the call sign, “Boston Strangler.”
Lieutenant Thomas W. Wright heard that call sign frequently. As OIC (Officer-in-Charge) of PCF-44, he operated with LT (j.g.) Kerry’s 94 Boat on a fairly regular basis. A 1966 graduate of the University of North Carolina’s NROTC program, Wright had served as communications officer aboard the destroyer USS Robert A. Owens before beginning Swift boat training in November 1967. He had already served for eight months with Qui Nhon’s Coastal Division 15 when the monsoon season forced its boats to be shifted to the more protected, and more challenging waters off An Thoi. He decided to extend his tour and follow his disciplined, veteran crew to the new base. As the relatively senior lieutenant there, he was the OTC, or Officer-in-Tactical Command for the majority of the 3-to-6-boat missions. On most of them he commanded 44 Boat.
The rivers and canals of Kien Giang and An Xuyen provinces were the targets of Commander, U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam, Rear Adm. Elmo Zumwalt’s aggressive SEALORDS operations. Looking back after all these years, Tom Wright, now a retired Commander, recalls: “We planned missions locally to try to dominate the area and disrupt the enemy’s movements. We faced significant challenges every day, every night. We would respond to intelligence reports as appropriate. It took great imagination and determination to work effectively in the rivers, and we remained deployed until material damage and casualties reduced our effectiveness. We would then rotate back to An Thoi for repair and re-arming.”
For Tom Wright and most other Swift boat officers, there were two commandments: 1. Protect the crews. 2. Win. As for Tom Wright’s 44 Boat; “we won every engagement, start to finish. I got the crew home; a few nicks, but we made it.”
Working with call sign “Boston Strangler” became problematical. “I had a lot of trouble getting him to follow orders,” recalls Wright. “He had a different view of leadership and operations. Those of us with direct experience working with Kerry found him difficult and oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives. I believed that overall responsibility rested squarely on the shoulders of the OIC or OTC in a free-fire zone. You had to be right (before opening fire). Kerry seemed to believe there were no rules in a free-fire zone and you were supposed to kill anyone. I didn’t see it that way.”
In Wright’s view, it was important that the enemy understood that Swift boats were a competent, effective force that could dominate his location. To do that, you also had to control the people and their actions; to have them accept Swift boat crews and their authority. You couldn’t achieve that by indiscriminate use of weapons in free fire zones.
It got to a point where Wright told his divisional commander he no longer wanted Kerry in his boat group, so he was re-assigned to another one. “I had an idea of his actions but didn’t have to be responsible for him.” Then Wright and like-minded boat officers took matters into their own hands. “When he got his third Purple Heart, three of us told him to leave. We knew how the system worked and we didn’t want him in Coastal Division 11. Kerry didn’t manipulate the system, we did.”
As for medals, Commander Wright holds strong views: “No one was recognized for completely overwhelming the enemy with skill, courage and bravery. No one wanted a Purple Heart because it meant we had made a mistake. We made sure our crews were recognized, but no one took pride in a Purple Heart. Everyone who served is equally important, regardless of rank or awards.
John B. Dwyer is a military historian, and Vietnam veteran, who served in the Fourth Infantry Division
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Buddy
I do not work for the Kerry campaign, but spend a lot of time (probably too much) reading articles from all over. It is almost an obsession of mine to get all the information I can from both sides of an argument.
I have no doubt that you and most of the people on this board served honerably and well. I have quite a few friends that are VN vets and they are some of the most honerable people I know. I detest the treatment many of you received on your return and hope this country has learned a lesson.
I understand your feelings about Kerry but feel a larger point is being missed. By the time he gave his testimony, the war was already pretty unpopular. Much of what he said has been overstated by groups such as this. At no point did he say that all of the soldiers committed atrocities.He did overstate what was happening there and has said as much since.
But the even larger picture here is the fact that President Bush has completely screwed many things up. The war in Iraq is a perfect example. I have written my thoughts on this in other threads here so I will not write them again. You can see all of my comments by clicking on my name to the left.
As far as linking and other things you want to do, there is a group of boxes above your comment box. Highlight what you want quoted or linked and click on the corresponding block. |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Mikest,
It is very easy to be a critic. How about laying out a plan to destroy fundamental terrorism without invading Iraq?
Let me tell you, based on experience and training. Iraq was necessary and we must win. Not the UN, not anyone else. The United States of America must see this long, hard war through to its end.
Or we will all be bowing to Mecca five times a day.
With John Kerry as CiC? I firmly believe that might happen within his term (based on his voting record).
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I went into this in detail the other night and yesterday. I don't have the time or energy to get much deeper than this. Other than Gen. Franks initial invasion, this war has gone from bad to worse. We have nowhere near enough troops on the ground to keep the peace, let alone create a workable govt. Today I read that Brahimi gave up on the new govt of technocrats and it looks like Chalabi and company will be in charge. Chalabi has already been proven a liar, has no respect from the people or the neighboring countries and has been working with the Iranians.
Everything that has gone wrong was predicted by many people, including people like Powell, Zinni and Shezeki(sp?) who were all marginalized by the people in charge. Even Cheney, during GHWB's admin, predicted exactly what has been happening now. To this day, not one person that screwed this up has resigned or been fired.
GHWB even advised against this war and his son would not listen to him. |
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dhedges53
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 30
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Greenjeans:
Absolute absurdity. The Islamic Republic of Iran has over 25 nuclear facilities. The Islamic Republic of Iran mines their own uranium. There is a saying in Iran, "There are no lies, only degrees of the truth." Iran lies to the IAEA every day about its nuclear weapons program. You think OBL is hiding in a cave on the Pakistani/Afghanistan border? Its a known fact that OBL is in Tehran under the protection of the Islamic Republic of Iran and probably has dinner every night with President Katami. That is, it's known everywhere except in the USA. Thanks to that military no-nothing Bush, we will never get the support of the international community or the Republican house or senate to address Iran after the incredible strategic mistake of invading Iraq. If you asked Bush today, and could force him to tell the truth for a change, he would turn back the clock, reinstate Saddam and never send troops into Iraq. You say Israel will take care of Iran? Bull crap. The only way Israel can destroy all the nuclear facilities in Iraq is by opening their nuclear arsenal. Anyone who has any military background or knowledge or the most casual awareness of the international situation in the Middle East knows it will take full international cooperation to destroy Irans nuclear capabilities. In six months the Islamic Republic of Iran will have the "bomb". When the Islamic Republic of Iran has the bomb, Al-Qaeda will have the bomb. And then you can kiss it goodbye. We needed to invade Iraq? What arrogant, uninformed stupidity. |
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Buddy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Mikest, your last post here was a welcome relief from the usual "Scripted" replies that come from most Kerry supporters. I think that everyone here would rather read what you think rather than "canned" retorts that have been repeated over and over. Hitting each other over the head again and again only drives most people further into their respective camps. I really don't know anyone from the Swift Boat members that actually hate Kerry. It's more of a feeling of getting satbbed in the back by one of your own brothers. That's just to hard to forgive, especially when night after night on any news program Kerry is always introduced as a "Highly decorated Vietnam veteran with 3 purple hearts" All the swift guys were there and we all went through the exact same thing as he did. A lot of us picked out out tiny shreds of flak from our skin and didn't think anymore about it. No one I knew back then had any foresight into what a few extra purple hearts would do for a political campaign. Mr Kerry seemed to be the only one that was there who had this kind of "presence of mind" to request these medals when everyone else I knew didn't think it was worthy.
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Buddy. I do respect most of you and understand that there are many deep seeded feelings you have that I will never even begin to understand.
GreenHat
This is from the center left site TNR so take it for what you will. It gives a pretty good rundown of what has happened with the Terrorism experts in the Bush administration.
| Quote: | | First there was Richard Clarke. We all know what happened to him. He left his post in disgust and wrote a book arguing that Bush paid no attention to terrorism before 9/11 and that the war in Iraq was a monumental diversion from the fight against al Qaeda and a gift to jihadist recruiters across the Muslim world. Clarke was replaced by General Wayne Downing, a pro-Iraq war hawk. Nonetheless, he had a similar experience, lasting a total of 10 months before abruptly resigning in frustration at how the White House bureaucracy was responding to the terrorist threat. Downing was replaced by two men, General [John] Gordon, who lasted ten months before moving on to his homeland security job, and Rand Beers, who resigned in disgust over the Iraq war after seven months in his post. His experience was searing enough that he immediately joined the Kerry campaign. Beers was replaced by Townsend, who has now been tapped to replace Gordon, who is apparently resigning under circumstances similar to Clarke and Beers. (Got all that?) |
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dhedges53
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 30
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Mikest:
Great quote. I can never find those when I need them. I tend to be less conciliatory when I hear someone calling Kerry a back stabber. There were a lot of people in this country who felt that stopping the killing was much more important than friendship with the pro-war militarists. Maybe some people in their youthful exuberance went over the top at times, but it was for a cause that was more important than hurt feelings. My observation is that these Vets (if any of the people posting really are vets) are Republicans who, no matter what, are going to vote for a Republican, and that this site is a rationalization for voting for a draft-dodger over a man who served his country with honor, whether or not he deserved the medals he received. Thank God we have Clairvoyants who can look into Kerry's heart and make the determination that the purple hearts he received were, somehow, politically motivated. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Kerry was the Boston Strangler |
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BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP
| Buddy wrote: | | Interesting reading. [/url]http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3539 |
Buddy, that is PRECISELY the type of info I'm trying to gather about Kerry's rather odd number of transfers in such a short time. It is an AMAZING bit of testimony and answers, DIRECTLY, why Kerry was transfered from one of his units. |
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Buddy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hedges, I take it that your last post was directed to me. I read it 5 or 6 times just to make sure I got it. Are you actually saying that I'm not a real vet? That I sit here and make this stuff up? I don't mind proving to you or anyone else of my background. I believe I have the experience on the rivers of IV Corps in 1969 to say to Kerry that he was and still is a back-stabber. Anyone that was not there would have a hard time recognizing that. I left more of my body in that country than Mr Kerry ever dreamed of. That doesn't make my contribution to the truth any more or less relevent than other vets. We are not trying to persuade devout democrats to change sides. If we believe that Mr. Kerry is not fit to handle the job of president we will have to cast our vote for Mr. Bush because one of those two will be the next president. I wasn't a pro-war militarist. I was a 21 year old 2nd class QM that felt his obligation to help the South Vietnamese people decide their own fate in the face of outside armed aggression was a worthy cause and worth dying for. My feelings wern't hurt by Mr. Kerry's behavior, my small measure of sacrifice to keep a people free was undermined, trashed and was ultimately in vain for millions of people as was my reputation as a warrior for the U.S. Navy. Mr. Kerry did not ask his fellow swift veterans their opinion of his becoming a anti-war hero. He listened to a bunch of ratty, scraggley wannabes who made up their stories to make themselves feel important. Mr. Kerry did not take the time to properly see-through their lies and exaggerations. Why wouldn't he take the time to visit with his brothers -in-arms from the rivers that were lying in hospital beds not 5 miles from the center of his returning those same medals he now proudly displays? Mr. Kerry was an opportunist (in my opinion). In the 1970's he was a proud anti-war hero, in the later years he was a war hero when the mood of the country changed to a better reflection on the service that veterans gave to their country in Vietnam. Now, he's both a war hero and an anti war hero. I didn't look into Mr. Kerry's heart to see what he was doing, I just looked at what he did.
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