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h3digital Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 49
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:29 pm Post subject: Rand Beers |
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An Interview with Rand Beers
One week ago, John Kerry kicked off eleven days of speeches and campaign events outlining his national security policy. As head of the Internet Team, I had the opportunity to sit down with Rand Beers to discuss how John Kerry will build a stronger America, that is respected in the world, and secure at home.
After serving at the National Security Council at the White House during Republican and Democratic administrations, Rand Beers resigned as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Combating Terrorism in March 2003 to protest the Bush administration's loss of focus on the war on terrorism. Eight weeks later, he joined the Kerry Campaign as National Security/Homeland Security Issues Coordinator. He began his career as a Marine rifle company commander in Vietnam.
Josh Ross: Was it a difficult decision to leave the Bush administration?
Rand Beers: It was an extraordinarily difficult decision for me to make. When you've worked with people for a number of years, you develop a sense of loyalty and camaraderie. But I feel strongly that if you're going to play a part in any government, you have to be one hundred percent committed. When I could not give that kind of commitment because of differences in philosophy and the administration's rush to war, I decided to leave.
After I left, I thought a lot about what I wanted to do, and came to the conclusion that rather than being part of the problem, which I was within the administration, I wanted to be part of the solution.
Josh Ross: There were nine Democrats in the field when you joined the Kerry campaign. Why pick John Kerry over all the rest?
Rand Beers: I joined John Kerry's campaign because I knew about his record in the Senate, on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and on the Senate Intelligence Committee. I knew that he cared about the changing security environment that the world was facing. And one of his former staffers, Jonathan Winer, worked for me as Deputy Assistant Secretary at the State Department, so I had a good appreciation of the kinds of issues and concerns that John Kerry was passionate about.
I also admire Senator Kerry because of his Vietnam experience. Like him, I served in Vietnam. Like him, I went back for a second tour after having spent a full year there. Like him, I came back to the United States deeply concerned that our efforts in Vietnam had gone off track. I was drawn to John Kerry because of our similar experiences, plus the knowledge that individuals who have served in combat have an important perspective when they make decisions about war and peace.
Josh Ross: What steps do we need to take to restore U.S. authority and leadership in the world?
Rand Beers: It's absolutely essential that the next president, from his first day in office, makes a major effort to reach out to countries around the world. We need to return to the kind of dialogue that is necessary to knit together relationships and alliances into meaningful coalitions, to deal with the problems around the globe. If you're not prepared to listen, as well as talk, then it's much harder to bring other countries together for common purposes and common solutions.
Josh Ross: What lessons from history can we apply to fighting the war on terror?
Rand Beers: I think that the major lesson from history is that if we do not work together with allies around the world, we are going to be unable to prevent terrorists from attacking us and hurting us. We will never have a perfect defense; but we will be stronger and more secure with strong allies.
Second, we need to adapt our capabilities to the new threats we face. Terrorism was previously a secondary concern not only for the United States but for most countries. The face of terrorism is ever-changing and evolving. We're going to have to look at our military forces, our intelligence forces, and our law enforcement community, both within the United States and globally, to make sure that we have the right kind of people, the right kind of capabilities, and the right kind of skills in order to deal with these new threats.
We also have to dry up support and sympathy for al-Qaeda in the Islamic world. We have to reinforce the perception in the Islamic world that the kind of activity and behavior that al-Qaeda engages in is unrepresentative of the religion as a whole. This will take time and considerable effort, but it's a mission that we must participate in with the Islamic world and other members of the international community.
Josh Ross: How will a John Kerry presidency differ from a George Bush Presidency, in terms of foreign policy, the war on terrorism, and Iraq?
Rand Beers: John Kerry presented a very clear set of differences in his speech in Seattle last Thursday. First, he would return to the alliance structure that has stood so well since the second World War. Those alliances need to be updated, strengthened and refocused for a post 9/11 world, so that organizations such as NATO are no longer confined in their vision.
Second, John Kerry will ensure that we have the kind of military that's necessary for security missions. We must have more than just a force that is capable of fighting conventional wars. We also must have the skills and capabilities that will allow us to deal with failed states, terrorism, and threats from nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, especially keeping them away from terrorists.
Third, John Kerry will use all the tools in our foreign policy arsenal. We will emphasize the use of diplomacy, which the Bush administration has put in cold storage. We need better intelligence capabilities and better use of economic power, our ideas, and our values.
Finally, we need to become energy independent, so our foreign policy isn't distorted by our dependence on Middle East oil.
Rand Beers, not bad for just telling it the way it is. Another fact for the truth, not like siding with traitors to Iran, and giving up CIA agents names and cutting Veterans Benefits like our current administration. Hey guys in Texas. The border problem was actually outsourced, instead of keeping it inhouse, meaning in the govt. I wonder why? Kind of like how Haliburton got the Iraq rebuilding contract. Oh that's right, Cheyne, father of a Lesbian, was the ex CEO and has a lot of stock in the company. Jeez my mistake. Let the Truth be heard to all vets! vetsforkerry.com and check out the other side. Not all Vets support a Dry up ex cocaine, alcoholic AWOL President. [/img] _________________ Let the Truth be let out. |
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95 bxl Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 179
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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We don't care what you post, wannabe... but you need to post it on the non-veteran board. |
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h3digital Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 49
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:48 pm Post subject: geez |
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ALL YOU CAN DO IS DENY. That's it. The Truth hurts that I'm a Vet and I don't agree with your bashing. Don't be in denial, you can come out of the closet? Like Cheyne's Lesbian daughter. _________________ Let the Truth be let out. |
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DELTREE Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 34 Location: THE GREAT STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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h3digital, I am glad that Rand Beers is gone! So now he is working for J.Fonda Kerry, Birds of a feather flock together. Two BUMS!!
Your Friend and Truth Teller DELTREE |
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95 bxl Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 179
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:32 am Post subject: Re: geez |
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h3digital wrote: | ALL YOU CAN DO IS DENY. That's it. The Truth hurts that I'm a Vet and I don't agree with your bashing. Don't be in denial, you can come out of the closet? Like Cheyne's Lesbian daughter. |
Look, Wannabe.... I'm sure you're an expert on all things homosexual, but the fact that you're no more a veteran then you are straight is obvious. Take your BS out of the Vet's Only board. |
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DELTREE Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 34 Location: THE GREAT STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:05 am Post subject: |
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95 bxl, You are calling h3digital a queer now? You know I think you are right! Lets get these Commie fags out of here, it's starting to stink the place up!!
Take Care and GOD BLESS the VN VET
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xsquid Lt.Jg.
Joined: 25 May 2004 Posts: 140
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: Re: geez |
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95 bxl wrote: | h3digital wrote: | ALL YOU CAN DO IS DENY. That's it. The Truth hurts that I'm a Vet and I don't agree with your bashing. Don't be in denial, you can come out of the closet? Like Cheyne's Lesbian daughter. |
Look, Wannabe.... I'm sure you're an expert on all things homosexual, but the fact that you're no more a veteran then you are straight is obvious. Take your BS out of the Vet's Only board. |
_________________ 11 years US navy.
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:23 am Post subject: Re: geez |
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h3digital wrote: | ALL YOU CAN DO IS DENY. That's it. The Truth hurts that I'm a Vet and I don't agree with your bashing. Don't be in denial, you can come out of the closet? Like Cheyne's Lesbian daughter. |
In a PM you said that the Administrator had approved your participation here. I asked you to provide evidence there of. Was thay just another lie? Should I publicize our private dialogue?
I would suggust you restrict your participation to the open section of this forum until such time as you are able to provide us with evidence.
Trust but Verify....Ronald Reagan
ASPB Riverrat _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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h3digital Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 49
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:39 am Post subject: |
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ASPB I suggest you check with the admin before you make your acusations. I don't need to show proof to anyone else. He also told me to keep a level head here. Bill told me that a lot of Vets here wern't mad at Kerry until he went public about his service in Veitnam reguarding his presidency. He gave a wonderful explanation, but that still doesn't excuse what our current administration is doing. Not only is the current admin destroyering our Beutiful Country and smearing its name, but creating a social class WAR between the Rich and the middle class and poor. Some of you need to pay attention to that and not just Kerry's service record and a photo from over 25 years ago. "There are new fights to fight and new Wars to wage" by h3digital aka Harry3 of MD; A Proud Veteran and Lifetime member of the US Army Ft. Myer MP company. "Guardian of the Nation's Capital" _________________ Let the Truth be let out. |
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DELTREE Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 34 Location: THE GREAT STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:05 am Post subject: |
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h3digital, You should get the ******** of the year award. What a load!, BUT the same old COMMIE crap again. If anything you were a ARVN.
Your Friend and Truth Teller DELTREE
" My Friend h3digital the BULL SHITTER" |
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: |
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h3digital wrote: | ASPB I suggest you check with the admin before you make your acusations. I don't need to show proof to anyone else. He also told me to keep a level head here. Bill told me that a lot of Vets here wern't mad at Kerry until he went public about his service in Veitnam reguarding his presidency. He gave a wonderful explanation, but that still doesn't excuse what our current administration is doing. Not only is the current admin destroyering our Beutiful Country and smearing its name, but creating a social class WAR between the Rich and the middle class and poor. Some of you need to pay attention to that and not just Kerry's service record and a photo from over 25 years ago. "There are new fights to fight and new Wars to wage" by h3digital aka Harry3 of MD; A Proud Veteran and Lifetime member of the US Army Ft. Myer MP company. "Guardian of the Nation's Capital" |
Harry,
Don't believe that because this site if focused on Kerry's Vietnam and subsequent anti-war activities that any of us are single issue voters, whether democrat or republican.
You seem to be taking the socialist/communist/pascifist rhetoric of the left as gospel. Just remember one thing if nothing else....everyone one of those experiments has failed or is failing.
The strongest country in the world, both militarily and economically, is a libertarian-capitalist country. It believes in unfettered liberty, unlimited opportunity, and personal responsibility. If you don't work to your individual ability in that country you fail. If you have limited abilities the country is willing to provide you a standard of living unequaled elsewhere on the planet. It happens to be the United States of America! Let's not let it become the Soviet States of America, OK?
Tell me of one country that is socialist that you know of which meets your utopian views. I'm sure I can tell you what's been wrong with it for the last 100 years. I may even be able to convince you! _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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h3digital Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 49
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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aspb, you put your words in good sense. but there's something wrong with our own coutry as well. I'm Patriotic for questioning our leaders. It's our duty to do so. Like you said no other country is perfect, neither are we. I do know no Rich kids serve right now overseas and that's how it ususally was in your day. How many soldiers from money did you know when you served? That's a problem. the rich get richer off of wars, like nam and today in iraq. War should be always, and I mean always the last option. You nam vets should know that more than anyone. all the pain, all the suffering all the BS. Not only do you have to deal with the orders given to you , you have to hear all the politics as well. it's a crying shame. Take care brother, meant no harm to no Vietnam Vet.
Harry US Army 93-96. I almost had to go to war in 94 in Korea, but we had President with a level head and I did not have to. Does that make me a (edited by moderator)? No , I thank my stars and God that my country did not have to put me through that. I've been to the DMZ. I've had AK 47's pointed 15 ft away from me. eye to eye, tanks the whole nine. but it never happened or i might not be typing today. That's why I say what I say. I've a squad leader go sec. 8 on me in front of our squad durring an alert there he's saying "not another somalia, not another somalia" the hell with that ****. I thank God everyday that the cease fire never broke. because that's all there is in korea, just a cease fire. not many people know that. take care all h3 _________________ Let the Truth be let out. |
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War Dog Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 517 Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Quotes from the interview with Rand Beers:
Quote: | I also admire Senator Kerry because of his Vietnam experience. Like him, I served in Vietnam. Like him, I went back for a second tour after having spent a full year there. Like him, I came back to the United States deeply concerned that our efforts in Vietnam had gone off track. I was drawn to John Kerry because of our similar experiences, plus the knowledge that individuals who have served in combat have an important perspective when they make decisions about war and peace. |
First of all this entire interview is with a person who seems to have an anti-Bush and anti-Republican agenda from the beginning of this interview. The comments by Rand Beers are simply just his opinion as he sees it. He provides no proof of what he portrays as facts, and like the old saying, ‘Opinions are like a&&holes! Everybody has one!’
Now for the quote above, Rand Beers states that “Like him, I went back for a second tour after having spent a full year there.” LTJG Kerry did not do two tours in Vietnam. His service on board the USS Gridley was on a WESPAC, and only a small part of the ship’s mission was off the coast of Vietnam, mainly doing plane guard duty. The ship only pulled into Vietnam for a couple of days, and the requirements for having the qualifications for a “Tour of Vietnam” doesn’t include any US Navy ships service off the coast of Vietnam, nor for any port visits.
The ‘second’ time that LTJG Kerry was in Vietnam was between four and five months. That in itself doesn’t qualify the individual for a ‘Tour’ either. The normal accepted and qualified time period for a person to have documented in his service record was for six months or more.
So, you see, ENS/LTJG John Kerry did not serve even one tour in Vietnam. I say the above not to insult or demean John Kerry, but to point out that Rand Beers was incorrect in his statements.
Next,
Quote: | Rand Beers: It's absolutely essential that the next president, from his first day in office, makes a major effort to reach out to countries around the world. We need to return to the kind of dialogue that is necessary to knit together relationships and alliances into meaningful coalitions, to deal with the problems around the globe. If you're not prepared to listen, as well as talk, then it's much harder to bring other countries together for common purposes and common solutions. |
President Bush, and the Bush Administration did engage in a ‘major effort’ to reach out to countries around the world. The Secretary of State did in fact visit a large majority of nations to get support for the war on terrorism, including the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. Although Mr. Rand does not say it, the continued opinion that ‘we’ engaged in a war in Iraq that did not consist of a coalition of nations and that we unilaterally went into this war was false. There were over 60 nations that either directly went into Iraq with US and British forces or indirectly provided support and training for forces in Iraq. Just because certain nations like France, Germany, Russia and China did not agree to help or support the resolution in the UN, doesn’t make our actions ‘unilateral’. And in reality, France and Germany have been involved in a support role by teaching and training Iraqi police forces in France and Germany.
Senator Kerry and Rand Beer’s idea of, “We need to return to the kind of dialogue that is necessary to knit together relationships and alliances into meaningful coalitions, to deal with the problems around the globe.”, is to give over to and only do anything in the world with complete UN approval which would include France, Russia, Germany and other nations which have voiced their disapproval of the war in Iraq. Senator Kerry said back in the early 70’s that he would turn over control of all US forces and foreign policy to the UN. Is that what we want, to turn over control of our nations military and foreign policy to the UN? A common statement by those who favor the UN and/or a “one world or global” government is to pass laws and enact treaties that will give the UN total sovernity over all nations on this planet, and that UN laws and policies would overrule any nation’s Constitution, Bill of Rights, laws, rules and regulations. Is this what Mr. Beers is saying that he wants?
Quote: | Rand Beers: I think that the major lesson from history is that if we do not work together with allies around the world, we are going to be unable to prevent terrorists from attacking us and hurting us. We will never have a perfect defense; but we will be stronger and more secure with strong allies. |
Fully over one hundred nations have agreed and/or pledged to support this war on terrorism, and to work with the USA on fighting terrorists, providing intelligence, prosecuting any terrorists, etc.. Many of these nations are activately working with our military, FBI, CIA and other government agencies in combined joint exercises and missions. Once again, Mr. Beers tries in an indirect way to say that the US is unilaterally involved in this war on terrorism, which is a lie, and false.
Quote: | Second, we need to adapt our capabilities to the new threats we face. Terrorism was previously a secondary concern not only for the United States but for most countries. The face of terrorism is ever-changing and evolving. We're going to have to look at our military forces, our intelligence forces, and our law enforcement community, both within the United States and globally, to make sure that we have the right kind of people, the right kind of capabilities, and the right kind of skills in order to deal with these new threats.
We also have to dry up support and sympathy for al-Qaeda in the Islamic world. We have to reinforce the perception in the Islamic world that the kind of activity and behavior that al-Qaeda engages in is unrepresentative of the religion as a whole. This will take time and considerable effort, but it's a mission that we must participate in with the Islamic world and other members of the international community. |
Both the items in these paragraphs are currently being done not only by us, but also by many nations around the world who have fully committed to this war on terrorism.
Quote: | First, he would return to the alliance structure that has stood so well since the second World War. Those alliances need to be updated, strengthened and refocused for a post 9/11 world, so that organizations such as NATO are no longer confined in their vision. |
This translates to: turn over to the UN all global control and actions in every nation. NATO is already deeply involved in the war on terrorism in many nations and not just Iraq and Afghanistan. And that includes France, Germany and Russia.
Quote: | Second, John Kerry will ensure that we have the kind of military that's necessary for security missions. We must have more than just a force that is capable of fighting conventional wars. We also must have the skills and capabilities that will allow us to deal with failed states, terrorism, and threats from nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, especially keeping them away from terrorists. |
We already have these forces in place. Training is occurring all over this nation and in many nations to ensure that the skills and capabilities are there for these nations military, police, fire and civil defense forces. This is being increased more and more each day. But just like before Pearl Harbor, there were many signs that the terrorists in the Mideast and elsewhere had declared war on the US decades ago, but many in our nation’s government, law enforcement and intelligence agencies missed the signs. These same signs were also missed by many nations around the world. And democrats, republicans, liberals and conservatives alike missed these signs, warnings and war against us. We all missed the obvious, and of course, it’s far easier to look at the situation in hindsight, and to assign blame to those, which we have agendas against.
Quote: | Third, John Kerry will use all the tools in our foreign policy arsenal. We will emphasize the use of diplomacy, which the Bush administration has put in cold storage. We need better intelligence capabilities and better use of economic power, our ideas, and our values. |
Once again, this statement is completely false. Our government did use all the tools in our foreign policy arsenal and ‘use of diplomacy’ before we formed the coalitions that went into Afghanistan and Iraq. How many times did we go to the UN? How many nations did SecState Powell and others visit before we went into Afghanistan and Iraq?
However, I do agree with the statement, “We need better intelligence capabilities and better use of economic power, our ideas, and our values.” We have needed this for several decades now, through both democratic and republican administrations and controlled sessions of Congress.
Quote: | Finally, we need to become energy independent, so our foreign policy isn't distorted by our dependence on Middle East oil. |
I agree with this, however the current energy bill was defeated in the Senate, and has been sent back to committee. The main problem with our nation’s energy crisis has been going on for several decades now, and not just limited to a ‘republican’ administration. Our nation has not built any new oil/gas refineries since the early seventies. Of the refineries we have, numerous ones have gone by the wayside because of fires, explosions, accidents and not being updated due to laws, rules and regulations enacted by numerous sessions of Congress. The group of people who scream about the environment, (i.e., the NIMBY) crowd has done a lot of damage to this industry. Therefore, since no new refineries have been built, our nation’s refineries are at 24/7 max capacity, and even if more oil was supplied, cannot produce any more gasoline that they are already doing.
Also the actions of the above ‘NIMBY’ people and groups have resulted in no new drilling in areas not only in Alaska, but off the west, gulf and east coast of our nation. Much of our dependence on foreign oil could be eliminated by letting these huge fields be drilled.
Quote: | Rand Beers, not bad for just telling it the way it is. |
It isn’t the ‘way it is’, but simply just Mr. Beer’s opinion of things the way he and only he sees it. Not facts, not provable statements, but simply his opinion, and one in which contain many false statements and lies. But that’s his right, it’s his opinions.
Quote: | Another fact for the truth, not like siding with traitors to Iran, and giving up CIA agents names and cutting Veterans Benefits like our current administration. Hey guys in Texas. The border problem was actually outsourced, instead of keeping it inhouse, meaning in the govt. I wonder why? Kind of like how Haliburton got the Iraq rebuilding contract. Oh that's right, Cheyne, father of a Lesbian, was the ex CEO and has a lot of stock in the company. Jeez my mistake. Let the Truth be heard to all vets! vetsforkerry.com and check out the other side. Not all Vets support a Dry up ex cocaine, alcoholic AWOL President. |
With comments, false accusations, untruths and outright lies like this, it’s no wonder that others are attacking you on this board.
Quote: | Don't be in denial, you can come out of the closet? Like Cheyne's Lesbian daughter. |
Another unneeded and unwarranted comment. Tsk, tsk!
Quote: | ASPB I suggest you check with the admin before you make your acusations. I don't need to show proof to anyone else. He also told me to keep a level head here. Bill told me that a lot of Vets here wern't mad at Kerry until he went public about his service in Veitnam reguarding his presidency. He gave a wonderful explanation, but that still doesn't excuse what our current administration is doing. |
First of all, I am not the administration here, but just a poster like everybody else. The normal unwritten rule (written on some sites) is that what is ‘PM’d to you by another member is not to be disclosed by you in any threads on the boards. On some boards, you would be thrown off that board for disclosing what was sent to you in a 'PM'. What I told you in my ‘PM’s was simply my opinion, and not that of the administration of this board or the majority of the posters and members of this board and site. And the comment about, “but that still doesn't excuse what our current administration is doing.” Is totally uncalled for and unneeded.
Quote: | Not only is the current admin destroyering our Beutiful Country and smearing its name, but creating a social class WAR between the Rich and the middle class and poor. |
Where have you been? There has been a social class war between the rich, middle class and poor going on in every nation on this planet since man first started interacting with man, forming city-states and nations. As for “destroyering our Beutiful Country” the laws, rules and regulations that pertain to the environment are passed by the members of our Congress, and that includes both democrats and republicans. Laws take years from first creation of a bill to final signing into law, and encompass different Presidential Administrations from both parties. No one within a Presidential Administration can submit a bill or pass a law in this nation. That must be done by Congress, and only Congress. Therefore the ‘blame’ is on the members of the past three decades and many sessions of Congress.
Quote: | Some of you need to pay attention to that and not just Kerry's service record and a photo from over 25 years ago. "There are new fights to fight and new Wars to wage" |
This shows that the original purpose and complaints by the many Veterans in this organization, and on this board are not understood by you and others here.
Quote: | aspb, you put your words in good sense. but there's something wrong with our own coutry as well. |
No country or nation is perfect. Never has been, and never will. The concept of the perfect country, nation is only a utopian socialist/communist dream. We may not be perfect, and have our faults, but this nation is far better than many other nations on this planet. If it’s so damn bad, how come a majority of people from other nations want to come here?
Quote: | I'm Patriotic for questioning our leaders. It's our duty to do so. Like you said no other country is perfect, neither are we. |
Questioning our leaders and government isn’t ‘Patriotic”, it’s a natural human action that is perfomed by billions of people in every nation on this planet. It’s what should be done by every citizen. ‘Patriotism” is being proud of your nation, supporting your government even though you disagree with them, supporting your military members not only in wars and conflicts, but in peacetime too. It’s being proud of your nation’s flag, the symbols that make up that nation. Support of your fellow citizens even though you disagree with them, or don’t happen to like them. There’s more, but I won’t go into them right now.
Quote: | I do know no Rich kids serve right now overseas and that's how it ususally was in your day. How many soldiers from money did you know when you served? That's a problem. the rich get richer off of wars, like nam and today in iraq. |
Nothing here in this comment is new. This has been happening in every nation all over the world since national armies were first formed. Study your history about how many ‘rich’ evade the military in wars and peacetime by various means, i.e., college, conscripts, substitutions, etc… This has happened in every war and/or conflict that this nation has ever been involved in.
And yes, the rich get richer in wartime. But they also get richer in peacetime too. That is called progress and capitalization. That is the number one goal of business, i.e., to increase your personal wealth for yourself, your family, your future and the continued success of your life. And also, the same has happened in every war and/or conflict that this nation has ever been involved in. And that includes all administration and sessions of Congress controlled by both democrats and republicans. It’s only a problem to those that have agendas against those with which they disagree with.
Are you telling us that if you were 'rich' or 'wealthy' and we had a war that you agreed with, that you would actually volunteer for military service and go to that war? Or that you would not try and protect your son or daughter from going to that war?
Quote: | War should be always, and I mean always the last option. You nam vets should know that more than anyone. all the pain, all the suffering all the BS. |
Of course war should always be the last option. But any military man or woman who clearly understands the reasons why nations go to war understand that there are some times when a nation ‘has’ to go to war with others. If we have learned nothing from history, we should have learned that appeasement, striking deals, treaties and capulation to your enemies has never and will never work. The only thing a nation can do against those who have sworn to kill over 4,000, 000 Americans is to go to war against them. To think that we can deal with these people through policy, appeasement, begging, making deals, ‘trying to understand why they hate us’, blaming ourselves for their hate, etc., only results in more Americans getting killed.
The true military man/woman or ‘warrior’ fully understands what war is all about. No one in their right mind wants to go to war, wants to face danger, wants to kill or injure another human being regardless of who they are. Or to go to war where they themselves can be killed or injured, or their fellow warriors, friends, families, or citizens of their nation could be or will be killed or injured.
But, there are times when a warrior must do what he or she must do not only for themselves in the case of actual combat, but for their families, friends, fellow warriors, their nation, and for freedom of liberty of not only their nation and it’s citizens, but sometimes for that of other nations. If you think that this is ‘BS’, then you never learned anything from your military career.
Quote: | Not only do you have to deal with the orders given to you , you have to hear all the politics as well. it's a crying shame. Take care brother, meant no harm to no Vietnam Vet. |
Huh?
Quote: | I almost had to go to war in 94 in Korea, but we had President with a level head and I did not have to. |
Like I said, you learned nothing at all from your military service, and the comment about a ‘level headed’ President is just your opinion and only your opinion.
Quote: | Does that make me a *****? |
Only you know the answer to that question!
Quote: | No , I thank my stars and God that my country did not have to put me through that. |
And so does every other veteran.
Quote: | I've been to the DMZ. I've had AK 47's pointed 15 ft away from me. eye to eye, tanks the whole nine. but it never happened or i might not be typing today. That's why I say what I say. |
I would guess that anyone who has ever served in the military in wartime or peacetime has at one time or another been in this type of situation, no matter if it was on a “DMZ”, at sea, in the air, under the sea, or on base in a foreign nation. It doesn’t make you special or give you any additional wisdom or insight.
Quote: | I've a squad leader go sec. 8 on me in front of our squad durring an alert there he's saying "not another somalia, not another somalia" the hell with that @*$!. I thank God everyday that the cease fire never broke. because that's all there is in korea, just a cease fire. not many people know that. take care all h3 |
See response above.
Like I have said in other posts;
Those who understand, understand!
Those who do not understand, will never understand!
And you are one of those that will never understand no matter how many people try their best to explain it to you in terms that you should understand.
Woof! _________________ "When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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h3digital Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 49
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:35 pm Post subject: wardog |
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For someone who calls himself wardog, tells me he only 1 thing he only understands war. Maybe your're the one that will never understand. How do you actually know everything that goes against the administration is a lie? how do you know. do you have a crystal ball? I'm not a patriot because I speak out against my leadership? I thought this was America, home of Democracy, you must be on some communist planet or something. Next the USA certainly has a BIG coalition. Man we have all kinds of support in Iraq. Mercenaries, govt. contractors, we certainly do. you are very mislead and I pity you. Hopefully you'll see the light, but to you everything is a lie with what people disagree with you about. Take your talk to the street and see if it flies. I am and doing so as I go to VAMC'S getting support from other Vets and explaining to them about this year's election and why its so important to vets. Just ask the soldiers coming home missing limbs and oh the Prostectics dept's funding was cut. oh sorry Pvt., you'll have to wait or drive 200 miles. Those are the facts. Not lies. when you see the truth come to light in the future takes hold, you don't have to admit your wrong, just thank God. Just like you did when you got the hell out of that War and don't say your a tough guy and didn't. I'm sure you lost some good friends there. What did they die for by the way? A leaders mistake. A leader trying to make money off of blood. The Iraq war has created more Terrorists then there originally was. THAT IS A FACT. one other FACT, WAR IS FOUGHT FOR PEACE, NOT TO CONQUER AND CLAIM DOMINANCE. These huge fields of oil in Al. are Wild Wilderness Refugees Parks, but not anymore. Havn't you heard of the new hybrid cars and trucks coming out. I wonder why they are? So we can serperate ourselves from the mideast and stop destroying are beutiful lands. Who holds the majority in Congress? oh the Republicans. they also hold the Senate and unfortantely the white house. that's why America's ship is sinking. No bi-partisanship what so ever, like it use to be. THAT IS A FACT. YOUR IDEA OF PATRIOSM IS YOURS ALONE. I don't share that view and not many Americans would either. there have only been 2 wars in US history that we actually fought because US soil was attacked. the rest to me is propaganda and to make money. Afganastan was a good reason to go to war too.Terrorism, where we should have been concentrating most of our forces to begin with, instead Alquida has got stronger. My experience SURE IS HELL GIVEs ME INSIGHT AND ACTUAL VIEW. I've looked your so called commies in the eye just like you did and I don't feel the way you do. I know I didn't go throught the terrible nam experience on how the civies treated you all, but i've got more insight to what's happening now than you. Times have changed. China and N.Korea and even Haiti are more problems than Iraq, but for money the admin chose Iraq. China has 20 nukes confirmed at least, and N.Korea has confirmed Nukes too. That's preety important too.More important than oil and money and those can strike us soil. No findings that are confirmed can prove can hurt US soil. except for the terrorists the Iraq war created. Many more Americans are dying and being maimed for oil and money as we speak, and try to make another country do what we tell them to do. there will NEVER be a democracy in Iraq. but THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A NATIONAL DEBT TO MY CHILDREN AND OTHERS CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN. THAT'S A FACT. Hopefully before you pass away you'll see that everyone even your so called commie is entitled to be a human being, because after all that's what we all are. Human. One last qoute from someone Patriotic " You Know being a Veteran of War... Being a creation of war... it occurred to me... That, really, it's men of influence and power that decide what these wars will be about. THEY decide WHO we are going to fight and HOW we will fight them... and THEN they go about PLANNING the fight. In a sense, really these people of power WILL the war into existence." Captain America, an American Icon.[/quote] _________________ Let the Truth be let out. |
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War Dog Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 517 Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | For someone who calls himself wardog, tells me he only 1 thing he only understands war. |
Yep, I understand war! And it is clear that you do not!
Quote: | Maybe your're the one that will never understand. |
I understand a lot more than you do now or ever will. I deal with the issues and topics without insults and calling people names. Can you?
Quote: | How do you actually know everything that goes against the administration is a lie? how do you know. do you have a crystal ball? |
I never said that I know everything, nor did I ever say that ‘everything’ that goes against the administration is a lie! I simply pointed out the errors, lies, misstatements, false statements and untrue propaganda in your posts. I am not a 100% supporter of Bush or republicans, just as I am not a 100% supporter of the democrats. Both sides have their faults, both sides make mistakes, both sides have problems. But according to your posts, only one side has all the problems, all the faults, and all the blame for what is going on in the war on terrorism and in this nation. I have yet to hear you make one statement or comment on anything that either Kerry or the democrats have said or done. Who’s partisan here?
Quote: | I'm not a patriot because I speak out against my leadership? I thought this was America, home of Democracy, you must be on some communist planet or something. |
I never said that you personally are not a patriot or you are not being patriotic. I simply gave my opinion on the matter. If you disagree with what I said, say so, but don’t accuse me of saying that you were not patriotic. That’s a DNC/Kerry parroted trick phrase for anyone that disagrees with you, or what you post. Nice try though!
Quote: | Next the USA certainly has a BIG coalition. Man we have all kinds of support in Iraq. Mercenaries, govt. contractors, we certainly do. |
Can you name the nations that are over in Iraq with us, or helping the Iraqi people by training them or supplying them with the materials, food, medicine and other things that they need? Go ahead, give us a list of those nations! And what ‘mercenaries’ are you talking about? Give me proof of those ‘mercenaries’, who they work for, and the work that they are doing! Government Contractors? Who, what companies (besides Halliburton)? Let’s see just how much you know. You give me your list, and I’ll give you mine.
Quote: | you are very mislead and I pity you. |
I have proven that I am not misled by anyone. I deal with the issues and the topics without resorting to attacks, name-calling. Pity? Go ahead, that’s your personal problem, not mine. I was involved in the politics, issues and topics in this nation before you were even born. I do not drink the DNC Kool-Aid nor do I parrot the DNC party line. Too bad you cannot say the same thing!
Quote: | Hopefully you'll see the light, but to you everything is a lie with what people disagree with you about. Take your talk to the street and see if it flies. |
Go ahead, keep losing your cool and responding like you do. The only thing you are accomplishing is to prove to others here just how much you don’t know, how young you are, how wet behind the ears you are, and just how uninformed you really are about issues and topics.
Quote: | I am and doing so as I go to VAMC'S getting support from other Vets and explaining to them about this year's election and why its so important to vets. Just ask the soldiers coming home missing limbs and oh the Prostectics dept's funding was cut. oh sorry Pvt., you'll have to wait or drive 200 miles. Those are the facts. Not lies. |
I said nothing at all about the VA, treatment of Veterans by the VA, etc…
Quote: | when you see the truth come to light in the future takes hold, you don't have to admit your wrong, just thank God. Just like you did when you got the hell out of that War and don't say your a tough guy and didn't. I'm sure you lost some good friends there. What did they die for by the way? A leaders mistake. A leader trying to make money off of blood. |
Huh? What are you talking about? Are you talking about Vietnam or the Persian Gulf War? I didn’t “get the hell out of that War” I went and did my duty and my job as required. I served my full tour in both wars honorably! Typical response, when you cannot debate the issues or topics honestly and with common sense, resort to attacking. Your response there tells me a lot about you, and what I see isn’t good! You are not who you claim to be, nor are you the veteran you claim to be, cause if you were you would not say such an insensitive statement.
Quote: | The Iraq war has created more Terrorists then there originally was. THAT IS A FACT. one other FACT, WAR IS FOUGHT FOR PEACE, NOT TO CONQUER AND CLAIM DOMINANCE. |
No the Iraqi war has not “created more Terrorists then there originally was”. It isn’t a FACT!, but only your opinion. Can you give facts to indicate just how many terrorists there were in the world before 9/11, after? Before Afghanistan, after? Before Iraq, after? Give us some numbers to prove your statement! You will not be able to because again, you are parroting the DNC party line, and only quoting that which you have been told by someone else. Can’t you do any original thinking for yourself? Clearly not!
No, wars are not fought just for peace. Some are, some are in fact fought to conquer land and nations, some are fought for dominance, some are fought to defend yourself from those that want to kill or destroy you, your family, your nation! Again, clearly it is you that do not understand things, and why wars are fought. Didn’t do very good in those old history classes in school, did you? It shows!
Quote: | These huge fields of oil in Al. are Wild Wilderness Refugees Parks, but not anymore. |
Again, you are parroting the DNC party line. If you do your research you’ll see that the Purdoe oil fields in Alaska have not harmed the environment at all. The herds of caribou and other wildlife are flourishing and growing. The land is not a wasteland, but a beautiful area, and the warmth from the oil pipelines have helped not only the wildlife in the area, but the plant life also. The proposed area in the ANWAR to be drilled in is only basically 1/1000th of the ANWAR, and the rest of that area will be left untouched. Go ahead give us proof of how these areas have been damaged. Let’s see it!
[/quote] Havn't you heard of the new hybrid cars and trucks coming out. I wonder why they are?[/quote]
“Why they are”? Don’t you mean where they are? Are you talking about the current models being built by Toyota and Honda? Or the upcoming ones to be built by Ford, Dodge, Chevrolet, Volkswagen and other manufacturers? Do you want me to give you a list of the current and upcoming hybrid cars and trucks? Their stats, costs, mileage stats, etc…
Quote: | So we can serperate ourselves from the mideast and stop destroying are beutiful lands. Who holds the majority in Congress? oh the Republicans. they also hold the Senate and unfortantely the white house. that's why America's ship is sinking. No bi-partisanship what so ever, like it use to be. |
Gee, when you get upset, you lose all sense of proportion, common sense and logic, don’t you? You paid no attention to what I told you about this nation’s dependence on foreign oil, didn’t you?
As for the Congress, go do your homework, track down a bill, and look at the status of that bill or law, who voted for and who voted against, who proposed it, and who the majority was that either voted it in or not in. I think you might be surprised to find out that what you believe is totally wrong. But then again, with your level of comprehension, maybe not! Do you become this unstable very often?
THAT IS A FACT. YOUR IDEA OF PATRIOSM IS YOURS ALONE. I don't share that view and not many Americans would either.[/quote]
Yep, it’s my opinion. Shall we open a thread to see what the majority of people here feel what patriotism is? I’d guarantee you that the majority of them will go with my definition before they will go with yours. And do you answer for the majority of Americans? If so, please provide us with the proof to back up this statement! Let’s see polls, articles, and links! Put your money where your mouth is!
Quote: | there have only been 2 wars in US history that we actually fought because US soil was attacked. the rest to me is propaganda and to make money. |
Let’s see, the wars that were fought because US soil was attacked? Hmm?
The War of 1812
The French- Indian War
The Seminole Indian Wars
The Civil War
The Mexican War
The Spanish American War
World War II
The War on Terrorism
Isn’t that more than two?
And again, you paid no attention to what I said on this particular subject!
Quote: | Afganastan was a good reason to go to war too.Terrorism, where we should have been concentrating most of our forces to begin with, instead Alquida has got stronger. My experience SURE IS HELL GIVEs ME INSIGHT AND ACTUAL VIEW. |
I think that we did in fact concentrate the majority of our forces in Afghanistan. We destroyed a good portion of the leadership and structure of al Queda, and sent the Taliban packing. Did we destroy them all? Nope we didn’t. Did we catch Osama Bin Laden? Nope, we didn’t. But we will!
Quote: | I've looked your so called commies in the eye just like you did and I don't feel the way you do. |
What is ‘my so called commie’? Exactly whom are you talking about? The Russians? East Germans? Chinese? Cubans? North Koreans? Which ‘so called commies’? Which eye, left or right? How close were you to them? Did they smile at you, make faces at you, blow kisses at you? Come on, fill us in?
Quote: | I know I didn't go throught the terrible nam experience on how the civies treated you all, but i've got more insight to what's happening now than you. |
No you didn’t go through what the Vietnam Veterans went through. That war was 1000 times far worse than the first Gulf War or the two recent ones in Afghanistan and Iraq were. You don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about when you refer to what we went through either over in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War, or what we endured after. I retired from military service in 1995 with 20 years in. How many years did you serve? Two, three, four? I still have close friends in the Air Force, the Navy and the Marines that are high-ranking Officers and NCOs all over the world, the Pentagon and in intelligence agencies. Do you? By the way, what was your rank? E-3, E-4, E-5? Oh, yeah, you know a lot more about it and what is happening in the world than I. The main thing that you do not know is that with age comes wisdom and experience, and the knowledge of being able to recognize those who do not have that!
[quote]Times have changed. China and N.Korea and even Haiti are more problems than Iraq, but for money the admin chose Iraq. China has 20 nukes confirmed at least, and N.Korea has confirmed Nukes too. That's preety important too.[quote]
Nope, times haven’t changed, but priorities sure have! Haiti isn’t a problem to the world situation, and neither are the nations in Africa or South America. China is a problem currently to Taiwan, and one economically to the US and other nations. And behind the scenes is a problem to the US and other nations, but one that isn’t openly dangerous to our nations security yet.
North Korea, while a problem, is mainly all talk. Neither China or North Korea would ever resort to nuclear attacks on either the US or any other nation because of the repercussions of what would happen to them if they did. Will we have to confront either of them? More than likely we will. And North Korea before China, because more and more information is coming forth concerning their sales of prohibited weaponry to other nations, and their support of terrorists organizations in the Mideast and other places.
Quote: | More important than oil and money and those can strike us soil. No findings that are confirmed can prove can hurt US soil. except for the terrorists the Iraq war created. Many more Americans are dying and being maimed for oil and money as we speak, and try to make another country do what we tell them to do. there will NEVER be a democracy in Iraq. but THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A NATIONAL DEBT TO MY CHILDREN AND OTHERS CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN. THAT'S A FACT. |
Oil and Money? What exactly are you trying to say? Are you parroting that old DNC talking point that we only went into Iraq for oil, are you? If you’d like, I can provide you with more than enough information to prove that false. After if that is the reason, then why didn’t we keep the oil fields of Kuwait and Iraq in the first Gulf War?
Are you seriously saying that the other reason we went into Iraq was for money? Whose money? The money that was going to be paid to the French, the Germans and the Russians for all that oil for food, that was stolen by the Iraqi Government? How about all those illegal contracts and deals that the French, Germans, and Russians made with Saddam Hussen?
Are we telling Iraq what to do? Gee, I’m sorry, I was under the mistaken impression that they just installed a President, Prime Minister, and an interim government? I was under the mistaken impression that fully the majority of the Iraqi ministries have been taken over by Iraqi’s themselves? I was under the mistaken impression that a majority of cities and town in Iraq have already held elections, and have installed governments in those towns and cities? Did we order all of them to do that? Wow, we must really be good, huh?
And of course there will never a “Democracy” in Iraq in the image of what a liberal democracy is! But it will have elected officials, a constitution, laws, rights, free enterprise, free elections, and freedom for the Iraqi People. Isn’t that a democracy? Gee, I thought it was?
And exactly what ‘National Debt’ are you talking about? The cost of the war in Iraq? In Afghanistan? How about the cost of the 3,000 lives on 9/11 and the cost of what it did to their families, the companies they worked for? Or do you mean the cost of the National Debt that the Clinton Administration led us into in the last two years of that administration, immediately followed by the damage to our nation’s economy by the attacks on 9/11? You don’t think the money we have to spend on the war on terrorism is worth it? Would you rather we do nothing, and let them kill more Iraqi’s, more citizens of the world, more citizens of this nation?
Looks like you would!
Quote: | Hopefully before you pass away you'll see that everyone even your so called commie is entitled to be a human being, because after all that's what we all are. Human. |
One more time, what is my ‘so-called commie’? Did I ever say anyone wasn’t entitled to be a human being? Where did this come from? Are you using that old DNC talking point and parroted line about bias, prejudice and bigotry? Racism? I never said anything about anybody not being allowed to be a human being? “Because that’s what we all are?” We’re all ‘so-called commies’ and not allowed to be ‘human beings’? Okay, if you say so?
Quote: | one last qoute from someone Patriotic " You Know being a Veteran of War... Being a creation of war... it occurred to me... That, really, it's men of influence and power that decide what these wars will be about. THEY decide WHO we are going to fight and HOW we will fight them... and THEN they go about PLANNING the fight. In a sense, really these people of power WILL the war into existence." Captain America, an American Icon. |
Gee, you just might be learning something here! Of course men of influence and power decide what wars will be about! When did that ever change? It’s been that way for damn near every war in the world’s history! Like, DUH!
Anytime you want to engage me in a battle of wits, intelligence and knowledge, if you feel froggy, then go ahead and leap. Most of the time, I really hate to do battle with someone who is mentally and intellectually unarmed, but in your case, I’ll make an exception. Come on Junior Birdman, bring it on! I was mentally sparring with people a hell of a lot more intelligent than you before you were born! Go ahead, prove to the people on this site just how worldly and intelligent you really are!
Woof! _________________ "When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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