SwiftVets.com

[DavidFarrar]

I will respond to his guy, but just wanted to have you guys give me some pointers on how to respond...this is what he wrote...

Lambert was the official witness for Thurlow's Bronze Star citation. This makes Thurlow's citation even more profoundly an impeachment of his current accusation, and he essentially calls the man who rescued him from the river a liar. Keep it up, guys, the troops are going to love it!
Re bullet holes, Wash Post reports presence of some bullet holes on Thurlow's craft, one of which occurring the day before.

A report on "battle damage" to Thurlow's boat mentions "three 30 cal bullet holes about super structure." According to Thurlow, at least one of the bullet holes was the result of action the previous day, when he ran into another Vietcong ambush."

"Lambert's news account describes photographs of bullet holes in the craft and he singles out a specific one as having occurred the day before. He has a number of other photographs showing battle damage.

"Lambert has a photo album of swift boats, including several shots of Kerry’s PCF-94, although he doesn’t recall ever having met Kerry. One of his photographs of Kerry’s boat was taken on the morning of March 13, 1969, he added.

He flipped to a photograph of a bullet hole in the side of his swift boat — PCF-51.

"That’s the bullet hole they keep talking about that they got the day before in the 51 boat — that was my purple heart," he said, noting he was hit on the upper left arm.

"When those bullets hit that aluminum, it was like hitting glass," he added. "There was shrapnel everywhere."

His photographs include swift boats riddled from AK-47 rifle rounds and larger holes from rocket blasts.

http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0826/local/stories/01local.htm

Sounds forensic to me David, wonder what we'd learn from a good examination of those?

Also, Rassman recounts to the Wash Post "No one can tell me that we were not under fire. I saw it, I heard the splashes, and I was scared to death. For them to come back 35 years after the fact to tarnish not only Kerry's record, but my veracity, is unconscionable."

Sadly, bullets splashing into the water aren't going to leave you much of your precious forensic evidence, David, so you have to come down to attacking the veracity of this man. Keep it up, David, people love it when you support the troops like that.

Wash Post also recounts a witness whom SBVT couldn't sway to their side of events, "There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river," said Wayne D. Langhofer, who manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat that was directly behind Kerry's.

Langhofer said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47s, as well as muzzle flashes from the riverbanks. Langhofer, who now works at a Kansas gunpowder plant, said he was approached several months ago by leaders of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth but declined their requests to speak out against Kerry.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html

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any suggestions?

ex animo
davidfarrar

[stealthy]

Others could help out more, but it's my understanding that Kerry's account of fire was the basis for that portion of the citation.
_________________
American Conservative

[Wolfgang]

Did any of the bullet holes or RPG blasts occur during the bronze star incident? There's nothing in this article that suggests that, despite the innuendo of the Kerry blogger. (BTW, the title of this thread seems misleading, no?)

I also wonder, personally, how important it is to have a perfect memory on this stuff. I can easily imagine, e.g., that there was some lightweight return fire, e.g., that in the cacophony of suppressive fire from the Swift Boats could have seemed like heavy fire to some and no fire at all to others.

It'd be great to have conclusive forensic evidence, but I don't have the reports, and wouldn 't know how to read them if I did.

[Wolfgang]

David,

Be sure to see this thread, too: http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5672

[tvaughan]

I think the "enemy fire" thing is a wash until we can determine who wrote those after action reports. We will not get anywhere in the MSM media with this (no one is challenging the obvious lack of physical evidence for 1.5 hour of small fire.)

BUT I BELIVE WE ARE MISSING THE MEAT ON THIS ONE, AND THE MEDIA IS LEADING US AWAY

On the Rassmann story, 2 things have been conclusively determined.

1. Kerry and Rassmann both LIED when they said that Rassmann was "left behind". The other boats did not leave the scene and Kerry was the only one to return.

FACT: Kerry was the only one that left. This is contrary to the major story of the convention! (Just see the DNC press release on the event! It's unbelievable and no one is throwing it in their face!)

2. Kerry lied about for his 3rd purple heart. Whether there was fire that day or not (There wasn't, but it still doesn't matter), Kerry was wounded by his own grenade, or some other friendly grenade, depending on the story (it was his grenade, but it still doesn't matter)

In Kerry's story, in Rassmann's story, in everyone's story, the wound on his ass was from a non-hostile action.

FACT: The wound on his arm, the only possible wound he could have received form the alleged hostile action, was a bruise. A bruise! You do not get a purple heart from a bruise!

These facts are no longer contested and those making personal appearances are not hammering these points!

STAY ON MESSAGE! STAY ON MESSAGE!

1. Kerry lied to the country just last month when he said everyone ran but him. (Gee, I can't imagine why those present are annoyed by this story)

2. Kerry, by his own stories, by Rassman's story, by the accounts of everyone present, KERRY DID NOT DESERVE HIS THIRD PURPLE HEART (which leaves only one, and while that has been questioned, it has not been disputed).

These 2 points are conclusive. Do not let the MSM distract us with "was there hostile fire?"

3 Purple hearts and only one has not been discredited? And at three you leave?

Who cares if there was hostile fire? We'll deal with that when we find out who wrote the after action points!

Hit those other two points! The ones that are conclusive!!!!!
_________________
Talking point #1: Sign 180
Talking point #2: Sign 180
Talking point #3: Sign 180

[drjohn]

Did you see Lambert's signature on the document?

I don't believe it was there. I think it contained Elliot's signature only. How does anyone know Lambert attested to it? It could still have the gunfire language added on from Kerry's report.

[drjohn]

Rassman is lying.

Tom Belodeau's eulogy (by John Kerry) says Rassman fell off when Kerry made a high speed turn (while running away).

I wish someone would pin him with that.

[baldeagl]

If you want pointers, read what I just blogged about it.

Unfortunately, far too many people don't think critically when they read. For example, Lambert is quoted as saying he "thought" there was enemy fire, he was "under the impression" there was enemy fire and he "believed" there was enemy fire. This is not a confirmation that there was enemy fire - merely that he thought there was. And why would Lambert think this?

[NavyChief]

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Right ON, instigator! I've always appreciated your reasoned and measured responses and it looks like that one hit the target.

Good luck!
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[NavyChief]

[NavyChief]

[NavyChief]

[hanna]

Why is it that the Unit Citation does not mention anyone but Sandusky and Alston of that group as having earned a Bronze star in 1969?

[jataylor11]

Navy Chief

Do you believe Dobbs? I suggest that you keep a tape recording of all your conversations with him. Confirm with him that you are taping the conversations --- but tape them. Keep copies of all of your e-mails.

Maybe Dobbs wants to develop his own book out of the SwiftVets and Kerrys fraud.

If Dobbs gives you anything to sign --- see a lawyer --- it will be worth the money --- Ginsberg might be needing another client.