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kyleparr
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 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: What has Kerry done in the last 20 years that you hate? |
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I read most of www.wintersoldier.com.. It seems all of the anger is from 30+ years ago. A lot of people did dumb things back then. Fat ass Rush Limbaugh was hanging out on his mother's couch collecting welfare after dodging the draft.
Is there any recent data that I should be aware of that will make me hate him? |
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dylar
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Mountain Home ID
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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He looks funny and dresses worse, you can start there. The matter of this site is not what he is doing so much as what he did and is now trying to take credit for.
Oh and by the way, I quoth the moron: "I voted for them before I voted against them.'
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I am indeed 17 years old and not afraid to vote for Bush when I turn 18 This year thank you very much.) |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:38 am Post subject: |
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I think posting stupid quotes is a dangerous game to get in when you are defending Bush. 
So, you admith that you are all busted up about crap that happend 30-35 years ago. Why don't you all find people from that time in your life and see if they think you said a bunch of brash, stupid stuff? Hell, you are still doing it, so I am guessing the answer is yes.
I am worried about the world of today, which has the world community against us, jobs flowing overseas, the environment getting trashed, contracts getting fixed by the VP, and protesters being confined and arrested. You are worried about Honor. Well what about the honor of the current administration?? Well? |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: |
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What, you mean aside from lying,
consistently voting against defense and intelligence funding,
voting against pay increases for our Armed Forces,
being the most liberal voter in the Senate,
misrepresenting his service in the Navy
and continuing to promote the slander of Vietnam Veterans?
Why, nothing at all! LOLOL!!!
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Will you please post documentation for those accusations? I would like to see the information posted. |
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Saint
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | What, you mean aside from lying,
consistently voting against defense and intelligence funding,
voting against pay increases for our Armed Forces,
being the most liberal voter in the Senate,
misrepresenting his service in the Navy
and continuing to promote the slander of Vietnam Veterans?
Why, nothing at all! LOLOL!!! |
Can you supply specifics as to how he has misrepresented his service?
And please give specifics on what bills he voted against. Be sure to notate all the pork they also included.
And if being liberal puts him in the same Category as FDR, Harry S. Truman, JFK and RFK, then I say I am liberal too....and proud of it! Kerry will make a fine President.
And what slander? Why don't you Vietnam Vets get off you crybaby horse. Damn. Nobody cares anymore. You guys don't even have a 10th of the class Vets form WWII and Korea do. No wonder you lost the war. |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | I read most of www.wintersoldier.com.. It seems all of the anger is from 30+ years ago. A lot of people did dumb things back then.
Is there any recent data that I should be aware of that will make me hate him? |
Kyleparr... fair question.
First, I don't hate Kerry. In fact, back in the early days of the primaries, I thought he might even be a good candidate for me to consider, based upon the interviews I had seen with him. But, I like to do research and I was especially concerned about the early attacks on Bush coming from his campaign during the primary. You would think that normally the primary candidates would focus on attacking each other and on explaining why they are the best candidate... but it all seemed to be attacks on Bush and complaints that we had to "take back our country". So I'm thinking... whoa, these guys are just trying to play on emotion and not dealing in facts... so I decided to do some research, and the stuff I learned, I put on a website.
I've tried to be careful to make certain I identify what parts of the site are my opinion and what parts are fact.. and for the facts, I try to make sure I can provide links to the sources. Unfortunately, some links are ephemeral.. so they disappear on me.
Although it didn't start out as an "anti-Kerry" site, I must confess that it has evolved in that direction.
So.. if you have time and are really interested... check out my site for my reasons for not voting for John Kerry for president.
http://thinkinboutstuff.netfirms.com/
By the way.. your question is very similar to one I'd like to get included in the debates.. I'd like them to ask both candidates one question: What have you accomplished in the last four years to earn this job?
Point is, what you did 30 years ago is old news (matters to some, I know... I'm not trying to diminish that); what you say you are going to do is interesting; but what have you been doing the last four years. With Bush, it's easy to see and you either agree or disagree with what he's done. I've had a difficult time finding out what Kerry has accomplished... I don't know about you, but my boss ain't giving me a promotion because I say the guy currently doing the job stinks and I can do better... he wants to see my accomplishments.
Keith |
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Keith
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Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| Saint wrote: |
And if being liberal puts him in the same Category as FDR, Harry S. Truman, JFK and RFK, then I say I am liberal too....and proud of it! Kerry will make a fine President.
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Saint... At the risk of opening myself up to more infantile personal attacks, I will provide my perspective on this aspect of your post.
If you look at the policies of JFK and RFK, by today's standards, I believe they would be moderates. Not sure about FDR and Truman... guess I'd have to give that some thought.
If I had the opportunity, I would have voted for RFK. My parents did vote for JFK, so I guess that's probably how I would have leaned if I was old enough. To me, the shift to the far left began with George McGovern... just my opinion.
Ball's in your court.. intelligent discussion or infantile response.
Keith |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Well, if accomplishments were critical to getting the job, George Bush never would have gotten a chance. He barely had any jobs, and the ones he did were mostly failures.
As for attacking Bush in the primaries, there was a concious decision NOT to beat each other up and have the Republicans then be able to turn what Dems said about each other back on them.
I will check out your site. Thanks for the link. |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:16 am Post subject: Re: What has Kerry done in the last 20 years that you hate? |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | I read most of www.wintersoldier.com.. It seems all of the anger is from 30+ years ago. A lot of people did dumb things back then. Fat ass Rush Limbaugh was hanging out on his mother's couch collecting welfare after dodging the draft. Is there any recent data that I should be aware of that will make me hate him? |
Sir,
Does this mean someone can come to your house and f*** your sister, and in just 30 years all will be forgiven?
If so, please provide your phone number, and I'm sure you'll have a number of takers who will even pay well for the experience.
Best,
FDL |
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Saint
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Keith wrote: | | Saint wrote: |
And if being liberal puts him in the same Category as FDR, Harry S. Truman, JFK and RFK, then I say I am liberal too....and proud of it! Kerry will make a fine President.
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Saint... At the risk of opening myself up to more infantile personal attacks, I will provide my perspective on this aspect of your post.
If you look at the policies of JFK and RFK, by today's standards, I believe they would be moderates. Not sure about FDR and Truman... guess I'd have to give that some thought.
If I had the opportunity, I would have voted for RFK. My parents did vote for JFK, so I guess that's probably how I would have leaned if I was old enough. To me, the shift to the far left began with George McGovern... just my opinion.
Ball's in your court.. intelligent discussion or infantile response.
Keith |
Oh I agree. Truman would be a very conservative Dem, but I really think he would be appalled at some of Bush's Social Policies. I think everyone of these men would have responded in kind to 911 as Bush did. I supported Bush after 911. I do not support his lack of social or enviromental policies and I do not support his war in Iraq. I support the Soldiers there and I pray for them every darn day. I could stomach Bush a little more if he was willing to compromise. It's his way or the highway. Not every American sees things as he does. Why he wont recognize this is beyond me. Ronald Reagans and Bill Clintons popularity and greatness came from the their ability to work with both sides of the aisle and they got things done. Sure the parties will always disagree, but you have to be willing to give and take. Bush just takes and never gives. |
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Saint
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:20 am Post subject: Re: What has Kerry done in the last 20 years that you hate? |
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| fortdixlover wrote: | | kyleparr wrote: | | I read most of www.wintersoldier.com.. It seems all of the anger is from 30+ years ago. A lot of people did dumb things back then. Fat ass Rush Limbaugh was hanging out on his mother's couch collecting welfare after dodging the draft. Is there any recent data that I should be aware of that will make me hate him? |
Sir,
Does this mean someone can come to your house and f*** your sister, and in just 30 years all will be forgiven?
If so, please provide your phone number, and I'm sure you'll have a number of takers who will even pay well for the experience.
Best,
FDL |
Do you give reach arounds?  |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Saint wrote: | | Keith wrote: | | Saint wrote: |
And if being liberal puts him in the same Category as FDR, Harry S. Truman, JFK and RFK, then I say I am liberal too....and proud of it! Kerry will make a fine President.
|
Saint... At the risk of opening myself up to more infantile personal attacks, I will provide my perspective on this aspect of your post.
If you look at the policies of JFK and RFK, by today's standards, I believe they would be moderates. Not sure about FDR and Truman... guess I'd have to give that some thought.
If I had the opportunity, I would have voted for RFK. My parents did vote for JFK, so I guess that's probably how I would have leaned if I was old enough. To me, the shift to the far left began with George McGovern... just my opinion.
Ball's in your court.. intelligent discussion or infantile response.
Keith |
Oh I agree. Truman would be a very conservative Dem, but I really think he would be appalled at some of Bush's Social Policies. I think everyone of these men would have responded in kind to 911 as Bush did. I supported Bush after 911. I do not support his lack of social or enviromental policies and I do not support his war in Iraq. I support the Soldiers there and I pray for them every darn day. I could stomach Bush a little more if he was willing to compromise. It's his way or the highway. Not every American sees things as he does. Why he wont recognize this is beyond me. Ronald Reagans and Bill Clintons popularity and greatness came from the their ability to work with both sides of the aisle and they got things done. Sure the parties will always disagree, but you have to be willing to give and take. Bush just takes and never gives. |
Thank you 
If only you would use your powers for good and help lift the level of debate here....
Keith |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Aside from sharing the same zip code, the two men [Kerry and Ted Kennedy] both have strong liberal records, especially when it comes to domestic issues like taxes, the death penalty, the environment, abortion and gay rights.
Kerry's ratings with conservative and liberal organizations do not radically differ from the other senators in the race, John Edwards (search) of North Carolina and Joe Lieberman (search) of Connecticut. But according to the National Journal scorecard, Kennedy and Kerry vote decidedly more liberal on social issues, being weighed as 82 percent liberal in 2002 compared to Lieberman with 52 percent and Edwards with 56 percent.
But political observers say to inextricably link the two men is to ignore the differences in the two records. Where their votes might fall on the same side of the partisan line, Kerry's positions have often been less far-left than Kennedy's, especially on trade and foreign policy.
"[Kerry] has been a free trader, he's generally supported trade expansion. He's been a fiscal disciplinarian and he's supported some really tough education reforms," said Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute (search), the think tank of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council.
"In a lot of ways they are going to have similar records as all Democrats have similar records," Marshall said. "But, I would say that, in general, Kerry has shown a centrist and independent instinct and has not been as closely identified with the constellation of special interests groups that work with so many Democrats on the Hill."
The most striking difference, perhaps, is the senators' positions on the war in Iraq — Kennedy voted against the resolution authorizing the war and Kerry supported it. His pro-war position has forced Kerry to spend much of the primary campaign season explaining why he approved the resolution and criticizing President Bush for not getting the support of the United Nations (search) before heading into battle.
On taxes, both Kerry and Kennedy voted against the Bush tax cuts, but while Kennedy has talked of repealing all of them, Kerry has made maintaining cuts for the middle class a central theme. Both senators have no great standing with taxpayers' organizations, however.
"They're pretty much two peas in a pod when it comes to spending," said David Keating, executive director of the conservative Club for Growth (search). "If you like Ted Kennedy, you will like John Kerry on spending."
Keating rebuts arguments that Kerry is a fiscal disciplinarian, venturing to say that "Kerry is leading the pack" as a "fiscal liberalist" even more so than Kennedy, who has been in office since 1962.
The National Journal reports that Kerry voted liberal 95 percent of the time on economic issues in 2002, while Kennedy voted liberal 85 percent in the same period. Meanwhile, the National Taxpayer Union (search) gave Kerry an 18 percent rating in 2002, slightly better than its rating of 13 percent for Kennedy.
Both Kerry and Kennedy voted against confirming their former colleague, Sen. John Ashcroft, as Bush's attorney general. In the 107th Congress, they both voted against barring gays from leading Boy Scout (search) troops and voted for allowing abortions in overseas military hospitals.
They both voted against drilling for oil in the Alaskan Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (search).
The Almanac of American Politics says Kerry, a Yale University graduate and lawyer, came to office in 1984 with "the reputation of a strong liberal." He first made a name for himself in 1971 when he returned from the Vietnam War a decorated Navy officer and testified in Senate hearings against U.S war policy and what he described as rampant war crimes committed by U.S. soldiers in Vietnam.
Liberal groups have awarded positive marks for the two senators. In 2002, the Americans for Democratic Action (search) gave Kennedy and Kerry grades of 100 percent and 85 percent, respectively. The American Civil Liberties Union (search) gave both men a rating of 60, and the League of Conservation Voters gave Kerry a 94 percent rating, and Kennedy 82 percent, in the same period.
Both men are Catholics, but received low marks from the Catholic Family Organization (search) based on their recent votes regarding abortion. Both voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban (search) of 2003 and for failed measures supporting access to the so-called "morning after" abortion pill in the last three years.
Foreign policy and trade are the two issues where the senators differ the most. While Kennedy has been more wary about expanding trade agreements, Kerry has been a supporter. This accounts in part for the higher ratings Kerry has received over the years from the pro-business U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
Kerry has also been more active on defense issues throughout his nearly 20 years in office, say analysts.
"Senator Kerry has a lot of evidence at hand to combat this barrage if criticism that he is a Kennedy clone," said Marshall. "They have different focuses and they have different approaches and they are from different generations."
Democrats acknowledge that Kerry may need to start distinguishing himself from Kennedy and Massachusetts' liberal reputation as the campaign moves out of New Hampshire after Tuesday's primary and into the more conservative Southern and Midwestern states.
Simon Rosenberg, president of the centrist New Democrat Network (search), said that won't be difficult, because he's a different man.
"What's going to matter most is what [the candidates] are for, not where they're from," Rosenberg said. "And no matter how you cut it, he [Kerry] is clearly a moderate centrist."
Not so, said Baird. "He could be cast as a limousine liberal over and over again and it would fit every time." |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html
COMPARISON OF KEY VOTES
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY AND SEN. JOHN KERRY
107th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Approve Bush Tax Cuts N N
Expand Patients' Rights Y Y
Campaign Finance Reform Y Y
Permit ANWR Development N N
Confirm Ashcroft as AG N N
Bar Gays in the Boy Scouts N N
$ for Hate Crime Prosecution Y Y
Overseas Military Abortions Y Y
Bar Coop. with Intl. Court Y N
Trade Promotion Authority Y N
Authorize Force in Iraq Y N
Homeland Sec. Dept. Union Y N
106th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Educ. Savings Accts N N
Prescrip. Drug Benefit Y Y
Delay Ergonomic Standards N N
Phase Out Estate Tax N N
Review Movie Violence Y Y
Gun Show Bckgrnd. Checks Y Y
Ban Part.-Birth Abortion N
Broaden Hate Crimes List Y Y
NATO War in Serbia Y Y
Table Cuba Travel Ban N N
Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty Y Y
Perm. Trade with China Y Y
105th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Bal. Budget Amend. N N
Clinton Budget Deal N N
Cloture on Tobacco Y Y
Education IRAs N N
Satcher for Surgeon Gen. Y Y
Highway Set-asides Y Y
Table Child Gun locks N
Ovrd. Part. Birth Veto N N
Chem. Weapons Treaty Y Y
Cuban Humanitarian Aid Y Y
Table Bosnia Troops Y Y
$ for Test-ban Treaty Y Y
104th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Reduce Medicare Growth $ N N
Lmt. Prod. Liab. Damages N N
Increase Min. Wage Y Y
Welfare Reform Y N
Flag Amendment N N
Endangered Species Y Y
Gay Employment Rights Y Y
Ovrd. Part. Birth Veto N N
Anti-Missile Defense N N
Cuban Embargo Y N
Bar Bosnia Troop $ N N
Cut Vietnam Aid N N
Source: Almanac of American Politics
If I wanted Ted Kennedy, I'd vote for Ted Kennedy. |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: |
COMPARISON OF KEY VOTES
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY AND SEN. JOHN KERRY
107th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Approve Bush Tax Cuts N N
Expand Patients' Rights Y Y
Campaign Finance Reform Y Y
Permit ANWR Development N N
Confirm Ashcroft as AG N N
Bar Gays in the Boy Scouts N N
$ for Hate Crime Prosecution Y Y
Overseas Military Abortions Y Y
Bar Coop. with Intl. Court Y N
Trade Promotion Authority Y N
Authorize Force in Iraq Y N
Homeland Sec. Dept. Union Y N
106th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Educ. Savings Accts N N
Prescrip. Drug Benefit Y Y
Delay Ergonomic Standards N N
Phase Out Estate Tax N N
Review Movie Violence Y Y
Gun Show Bckgrnd. Checks Y Y
Ban Part.-Birth Abortion N
Broaden Hate Crimes List Y Y
NATO War in Serbia Y Y
Table Cuba Travel Ban N N
Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty Y Y
Perm. Trade with China Y Y
105th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Bal. Budget Amend. N N
Clinton Budget Deal N N
Cloture on Tobacco Y Y
Education IRAs N N
Satcher for Surgeon Gen. Y Y
Highway Set-asides Y Y
Table Child Gun locks N
Ovrd. Part. Birth Veto N N
Chem. Weapons Treaty Y Y
Cuban Humanitarian Aid Y Y
Table Bosnia Troops Y Y
$ for Test-ban Treaty Y Y
104th Congress
Issue Kerry Kennedy
Reduce Medicare Growth $ N N
Lmt. Prod. Liab. Damages N N
Increase Min. Wage Y Y
Welfare Reform Y N
Flag Amendment N N
Endangered Species Y Y
Gay Employment Rights Y Y
Ovrd. Part. Birth Veto N N
Anti-Missile Defense N N
Cuban Embargo Y N
Bar Bosnia Troop $ N N
Cut Vietnam Aid N N
Source: Almanac of American Politics
If I wanted Ted Kennedy, I'd vote for Ted Kennedy. |
One of the things that concerned me was the low % of votes Kerry actually was present for. I only did research from 5/13/2003 to present, but he missed about 84% of the votes.
Keith |
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