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Can official record support Swiftees credibility??

 
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hleone
Seaman Apprentice


Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:03 pm    Post subject: Can official record support Swiftees credibility?? Reply with quote

Just out of curiosity;

Did any other Swiftee win 3 or more PH's in one tour of duty in Vietnam, or is JK the world champion?

If anyone else got as many or more PH's, how long did it take?

Did any other Swiftee bring his own typewriter and movie camera to document his activities for posterity?

Did any other Swiftee who won one or more PH's write the after-action report(s) that led to his own award(s)?

Did any other Swiftee ask for a PH for a very minor injury, get turned down, and then later get the PH for that very incident, without the knowledge of the officer who originally turned down his request?

Did any other Swiftee get any PH without a single hour of hospitalization?

Did any other Swiftee elect to go home early after getting a 3rd PH?

If the official records show that of all the Swiftees, only John Kerry did these "unbelievable" things, and in just 4 months of duty, that fact could not be disputed.

And any disputable eyewitness accounts by the SwiftVets, that indicate JK's intent to simply create his own trumped-up political resume and go home ASAP, would be believable and virtually indisputable, because those accounts would be consistent with the facts of record.

I am sick of Kerry surrogates spouting on TV and radio that not one claim of the Swiftvets is true, effectively calling them all liars. They are still saying that even today, and noone has any facts from the record to cast doubt on that claim.

The Democrats calling the SwiftVets liars need to be exposed to the public as the real liars. If the press had indisputable facts of record that add support to the SwiftVet claims, at least some of the talking heads would not let these shallow arguments by Kerry surrogates to go uncontested.
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markasass
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo, "hleone". Great questions. Now if can just get people like Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo Riviera to ask them.
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LewWaters
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Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget, "official records" support that Kerry wrote up his own after action reports;

Quote:
According to the testimony , which is available in the Congressional Record, Sen. Symington asked Kerry, "Mr. Kerry, from your experience in Vietnam do you think it is possible for the President or Congress to get accurate and undistorted information through official military channels.[?]"

Kerry responded, "I had direct experience with that. Senator, I had direct experience with that and I can recall often sending in the spot reports which we made after each mission; and including the GDA, gunfire damage assessments, in which we would say, maybe 15 sampans sunk or whatever it was. And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures.

Kerry later added, "I also think men in the military, sir, as do men in many other things, have a tendency to report what they want to report and see what they want to see."


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/8/26/131905.shtml
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igor
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerry still hasn't produced an after-action report for his first Purple Heart, where he claims there was hostile fire and that he was the OinC. The OinC, whenever there is hostile fire (which is a requirement for a Purple Heart) must submit an after-action report.
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carpro
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Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's because he wasn't the OIC. Schachte was. Wink
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Misty
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LewWaters wrote:
Don't forget, "official records" support that Kerry wrote up his own after action reports;

Quote:
According to the testimony , which is available in the Congressional Record, Sen. Symington asked Kerry, "Mr. Kerry, from your experience in Vietnam do you think it is possible for the President or Congress to get accurate and undistorted information through official military channels.[?]"

Kerry responded, "I had direct experience with that. Senator, I had direct experience with that and I can recall often sending in the spot reports which we made after each mission; and including the GDA, gunfire damage assessments, in which we would say, maybe 15 sampans sunk or whatever it was. And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures.

Kerry later added, "I also think men in the military, sir, as do men in many other things, have a tendency to report what they want to report and see what they want to see."


[url]http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/8/26/131905.shtml[/
url]


So, has anyone checked any back issues of the Stars and Stripes to see what was said about Kerry's missions? That should be interesting!
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Husband was AirForce 3rd (34th) Tactical Fighter Wing - Security Police Bien Hoa Vietnam
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cipher
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, has anyone checked any back issues of the Stars and Stripes to see what was said about Kerry's missions? That should be interesting!


I imagine that one of the mods fired off a memo to the founders when that issue came up on the threads. I may be mistaken.

Not much gets by the admin on this board.
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srmorton
PO2


Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Jacksonville, NC

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen the quote Lew referred to several times and every time
I come to the last sentence I am struck by how much it reveals about
John Kerry. It shows that he has no concept of honor or integrity. He
thinks that everyone would react as he did - to describe events, not as
they really occurred, but as to present him in the best possible light.

I teach in a program that trains laboratory technicians and ethics is
something that we really emphasize. In the 21 years that I have
been teaching, I have come to realize that honesty and integrity can
not really be taught - they come from within. It is difficult for those who
have not had a sense of right and wrong instilled in them from an early
age to really "get it" once they become adults.
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Dimsdale
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures.


What Kerry conveniently leaves out is the fact that it was HE who did the, ah, "embellishing!!"
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cipher
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked through my S&S collection. I've got most of WWII, but almost nothing from Vietnam. I think someone is going to have to go do some digging in the microfiche in DC.
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cipher
Vice Admiral


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stars and Stripes will run a one-month wide search for $50.00

With Kerry's service covering basically four months, a search of Dec 68, Jan-Apr 69 would cost $200.00

If someone wants to spearhead that, I'm sure it would be a WONDERFUL addition to the documentation. And if S&S can NOT find something, they will tell you that. It still costs $50.00 a month to NOT find something, however, not finding stuff is refutation of Kerry's account, anyway.

The search would want to cover ANY story on the Swifts, NOT just a mention of Kerry. That would return more data, and you could use the articles found to document the news (or lack of news) regarding Kerry's service, body counts, etc.
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voltaire
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Swifties have sufficiently brought to light the other side of the "fog of war" stuff. Yes, it is clear and the application of logic by reasonable men and women would conclude that Kerry is a fabricator; however, arguing the minutiae of various memories without Kerry's 180 is, at best, a series of shallow debate victories depending on our advocate at the time engaged with the press. Therefore, I'm persuaded the focus should be on what is on the record and non-debatable. That is, his self-professed war criminal status, the outrageous things he said and did upon his return to dishonor fellow veterans, his past and present associations, etc. etc....Many sound bites and pictures available for emphasis. For example, ask the question, why would you vote for a person who boastfully claimed to be a war criminal? How does one answer that question?
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