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Hammer2
PO2
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:08 am Post subject: A new Kerry Combat incident? |
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(Admin - I accidently posted this at Resources & Research first, I wanted to get it going here)
Everyone, in reading over the 1971 Senate testimony, Kerry starts talking about how unreliable the militia allies were and relates this story:
"I can cite many, many instances, sir, as in combat when these men refused to fight with us, when they shot with their guns over tin this area like this and their heads turned facing the other way. When we were taken under fire we Americans, supposedly fighting with them, and pinned down in a ditch, and I was in the Navy and this was pretty unconventional, but when we were pinned down in a ditch recovering bodies or something and they refused to come in and help us, point blank refused. I don't believe they want to fight, sir."
I don't think I have heard this story discussed anywhere else. Is Kerry claiming that he was pinned down in a ditch, underfire recovering bodies? Anyone, am I reading this wrong, or is this an entirely new engagement that has not been mentioned before?
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"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:22 am Post subject: |
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I've never heard of or read anything about anything even close to that!
Someone more literate on Kerry will need to respond to this....
another lie to jump up and bite him? that'd be just wonderful ! |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:24 am Post subject: Re: A new Kerry Combat incident? |
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| Hammer2 wrote: | (Admin - I accidently posted this at Resources & Research first, I wanted to get it going here)
Everyone, in reading over the 1971 Senate testimony, Kerry starts talking about how unreliable the militia allies were and relates this story:
"I can cite many, many instances, sir, as in combat when these men refused to fight with us, when they shot with their guns over tin this area like this and their heads turned facing the other way. When we were taken under fire we Americans, supposedly fighting with them, and pinned down in a ditch, and I was in the Navy and this was pretty unconventional, but when we were pinned down in a ditch recovering bodies or something and they refused to come in and help us, point blank refused. I don't believe they want to fight, sir."
I don't think I have heard this story discussed anywhere else. Is Kerry claiming that he was pinned down in a ditch, underfire recovering bodies? Anyone, am I reading this wrong, or is this an entirely new engagement that has not been mentioned before? |
Hammer2,
This is another Kerryism -- some truth about a mission. It comes from the SEALORDS mission on 13 Mar 69. Kerry had RF/PF troops early in the day that refused to fight. This is where 1LT Rassmann lost his CO for the NUNG soldiers in a booby trap. Kerry heard a bird fart and dove into a ditch covering his head because he thought he was under fire. The other troops, in digust, finally went ashore and began to flush out enemies while the RF/PF were giving a half-a$$'d effort at beating the bushes. Then the NUNG soldiers entered the fray because they got paid for Vietcong bounties. The RF/PF soldiers then refused to work with the NUNG spouting something about Operational control of troops for the mission. Later, they got into a nasty firefight -- the rest was the mine detonating under PCF-3 and so on... You will see this over and over again. Kerry combines stories to try and make his political point for whichever audience he was talking at.
- instigator
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Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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Hammer2
PO2
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Sounds good to me Chief.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:46 am Post subject: |
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oh good grief, this guy is impossible!
worse liar than my ex-husband! and I didn't think one existed! |
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BenDeR
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:13 am Post subject: |
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NavyChief, you have OBVIOUSLY been doing some serious research. Every time I look at a subject, you (NavyChief) have posted extensive details. You are doing fantastic work. You should have been a Marine 
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USMC res 3rd ANGLICO
1986 - 1988
"Retreat hell! We just got here!"
Capt. Lloyd Williams, USMC |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| BenDeR wrote: | | NavyChief, you have OBVIOUSLY been doing some serious research. Every time I look at a subject, you (NavyChief) have posted extensive details. You are doing fantastic work. You should have been a Marine |
Hey, I went to the Marines but the guy just yelled at me 
I'm too sensitive for that, so I went to the Air Force but they told me I didn't walk with enough swaying hips
So, I was two pages away from joining the Army -- because they'll take anybody
But then the Navy said, "Hey, ya wanna be a spy"
- instigator
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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ATACKM
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Mi.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So, I was two pages away from joining the Army -- because they'll take anybody |
HEY! I resemble that remark 
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ATACKM
Gulf War Veteran
Proud American
http://www.buglesacrossamerica.org |
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USAF66-70
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | …so I went to the Air Force but they told me I didn't walk with enough swaying hips. |
Yeah Chief, as I recall we AF guys often maintained that we were lovers, not fighters … but I sure as hell don’t recollect anything about “swaying hips.”
USAF 66-70 |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but I sure as hell don’t recollect anything about “swaying hips. |
He's a chief. Watching women is a genetic imperative. Something about how new chiefs are made.
Besides, if you've ever watched a swab jockey walk, especially after a year or two at sea, they don't have a lot of room to talk.
I can yell at him, if you want. Just ask me. Please?
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| It is entirely possible that the RF/PF (Ruff-Puff=Regional Forces/Populat Forces=militia) troops were either afraid of ot did not want to be on any mission involving NUNG (indigenous mercenaries) or the PRUs (Provincial Recon Unit or Professional Recon Unit, i.e. imported mercenaries). The NUNG and PRU groups were difficult to control, got paid by body count (verified by ears), and were not very discriminating when it came to whose ears they got paid for. There had been many instances of the NUNGs or PRUs engaging the RF/PFs for the purposes of expanding their body counts. The US armed forces had so many problems with them that they stopped using them because of the problems they had controlling them. If NUNG forces were involved, it would be entirely possible that the RF/PF troops would chose not to participate. |
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RogerDraftDodger
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, Ga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject: When Kerry Spoke He was every Soldier |
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In Kerry's mind he was every soldier in Vietnam. He repeated every story he ever heard with himself as the Hero/Victim. And he made up other stories to suit his purposes...
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I am awed by you guys... |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: When Kerry Spoke He was every Soldier |
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| RogerDraftDodger wrote: | | In Kerry's mind he was every soldier in Vietnam. He repeated every story he ever heard with himself as the Hero/Victim. And he made up other stories to suit his purposes... |
NEXT THING YOU KNOW HE'LL CLAIM HE WAS WITH SEAL TEAM 6 |
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Mooncusser
Lieutenant
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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He was. 
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MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An
I actually won the election before I lost it.
"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse) |
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jwb7605
Rear Admiral
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| How many spot reports can we find where Kerry evacuated wounded that required him to leave his boat and medevac people out? |
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