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crv16
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:20 pm Post subject: How influential was Kerry? |
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I've just read the "Unfit for Command" book, and was quite disturbed by Kerry's actions after he returned from Vietnam. The book clearly details what he did, but I didn't get a sense of how influential he was in changing the political tide against the Vietnam war.
Can you give me some context that would address this? Is there a modern day anti-war activist that has the same level of influence that Kerry did? |
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jataylor11
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 856
Location: Woodbridge, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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None that come to mind. Kerry was the very visible spokesperson for the VVAW. There has not been one event in the last 35 years that reached the level of discourse the Vietnam war protestors did.
Only two issues come to mind
(1) Abortion, and
(2) AIDS
but there hasn't been the same central spokesperson or chin out front and center on either one side of both of these issues. |
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HOV1
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 100
Location: North East Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: How influential was Kerry? |
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| crv16 wrote: | | I've just read the "Unfit for Command" book, and was quite disturbed by Kerry's actions after he returned from Vietnam. The book clearly details what he did, but I didn't get a sense of how influential he was in changing the political tide against the Vietnam war. |
CRV16,
I believe that the influence Mr. Kerry exerted was more on the North Vietnamese side of the coin. With the demonstrations and Congressional testimony, the NVA was sure that Nixon would lose the next election and the winner would pull the troops out. They held out and kept fighting for two more years thinking they would get rid of Nixon because they had hope that John Kerry and the Anti War crowd could influence the electorate... two years of US casualties and heartache. Once Nixon was re-elected the NVA decided that maybe it would be better to agree to a peace plan. Don't take my word for it. Go to http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/samples.asp and listen to the POW'S accounts. It's some of the most moving testimony I've heard yet. (PS... don't think the same thing isn't happening today in Iraq. Just see how long these "insurgents" keep up this pace of attacks if Bush is re-elected in November.)
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USN 78-84 STS1(SS) USS George C. Marshall SSBN 654(G)
HOV1 |
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BC
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Can you give me some context that would address this? Is there a modern day anti-war activist that has the same level of influence that Kerry did? |
I see a lot in common between what m. moore is doing and saying about Iraq and what kerry and his group did back in the 70’s. Although I don’t think m. moore has the same influence that kerry had, you have to remember kerry grew up with influence and was already buddy buddy with Ted Kennedy in the 70’s
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Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
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Robert Cooper
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kerry alone had very little influence on the end of the Vietnam War - it was his willingness to allign himself with the pre-existing agenda of the liberal left Congress and media that gave their agenda the push it needed.
President Nixon had just been re-elected to a second term, and it was his effort to end the war with honor. The liberal left was already angry that he was re-elected and was going to make sure that he would be the first U.S. President to lose a war.
It was the combined efforts of the liberal left Congress, through the event of the 1971 Committee on Foreign Affairs (with Kerry as their poster child) and their subsequent recommendation to Congress, and the liberal media to poison public opinion - Kerry was not alone on this issue.
The Committee on Foreign Affairs had already been building a case from the standpoint of the Media, the American People, and the only thing they needed to nail the coffin shut was the voice of the Veterans themselves - this is where Kerry came in - the last nail in the coffin.
I am convinced that The Senators involved in the Committee on Foreign Affairs enlisted and collaborated with John Kerry prior to the hearing in order to assure the success and overall effect of the hearing.
READ: http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6129
It will open your eyes!
In your personal investigative work in studying the various documents, military records, etc - look for the names of Senators.
I think the reason Kerry doesn't want the sum total of his military records published (saving his selective publication) - is because I think there are some names of some political figures that have been influential in his military career.
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Know the difference between Politics and Mesmeratics - one embraces, propagates and promotes the truth, while the other manipulates it! |
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integritycounts
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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The effects of what Kerry did are underestimated.....After he spoke in front of the Senate....he gave validity to the False and untruth arguments being used by Anti-US Soldier protesters.
Yes the protesters were against the Soldiers.....and Kerry was walked around like a prized animal, to show and claim that other soldiers were monsters.
You think I am joking?
In his book...Kerry called Soldiers as Monsters....trained to deal and trade in Violence.
After Kerry's lies, the sentiment changed from ....Sorry for the guys who were drafted....to ..... they are monsters.
Kerry's false claims made the perception of Veterans as drug addicts too. How many of the Swift-Vets are drug addicts? That's right it was another Kerry lie
This was part of Kerry's book tour claims....he was all over TV with this junk. Kerry was touted as the insider telling what was going on....unfortuanlty for those that served Kerry was and is a Liar.
DON'T Underestimate the Damage that Kerry did to the Veterans, Soldiers, and the entire effort in Vietnam. |
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lrb111
Captain
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: How influential was Kerry? |
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| crv16 wrote: | I've just read the "Unfit for Command" book, and was quite disturbed by Kerry's actions after he returned from Vietnam. The book clearly details what he did, but I didn't get a sense of how influential he was in changing the political tide against the Vietnam war.
Can you give me some context that would address this? Is there a modern day anti-war activist that has the same level of influence that Kerry did? |
IntegrityCounts made good points, Robert Cooper gave a fair and excellent synopsis...
In fact, what Robert said could be used as an outline of that time, then fill it in with actual day to day events.
I was 18 in 70, and spent time with friends that went into the military, and friends that were active in war protesting.
In the summer of 71 i drifted around the country, hitchhiking with a one of my friends that had spent 6 months in the navy, and we went to see a lot of his friends in Chicago.
They were VVAW, SDS, weathermen, Panthers, etc... Plus a lot of folks that are not mentioned anymore, but were very important to the times.
These folks were involved in "street theatre", underground newspapers (no net), underground radio stations, and the like.
These groups were active from about 67 to 74. give or take a little., with peak activity from 68 to 73.
The reason these in the latter group need to be mentioned is because they were the civilian life age group that returning vets came back to.
Also, that the mentality of twisted lying that we see so much now, was honed during those years, to the foundations of the left-stream media we see now.
For a male returning vet it was doubly difficult, bcause 90 % of the females were involved or affected by these groups, and were radically against the war..
/aside] MS magaizine was being prepped for first publication in Aug 71, btw. My best Forrest Gump moment was when i said there was Miss or Mrs. as i had been taught in Texas, but Miz was not a proper term. Gloria just giggled and did it her way. she was really good looking back then. /aside off 
There were a lot of these core groups through out the country, and on every college campus there was some sort of radical organization advocating violence of some kind. The bulk of the rest of the country was along the lines of the "peaceful protestors" now in NY.
The folks in NY appear upset, but that was the general feeling of most of the population. Plus a lot of men were feeling like fresh meat, facing the draft, recall, or having their units activated at anytime.
If anyone thinks that's a rash claim, then they don't remember how many times the national guard was called out during those years. Virtually any protest, meant the national guard was put on alert. No one was surprised when they were called out.
Moreover, this atmosphere gave a sense of dread, and civil unrest all across the nation. I have only seen that same sense of dread again, post 9/11.
When My Lai happened it was met with skepticism and disbelief by myself, and the general public, imo. However, when Calley and others were convicted, it did cast a certain pall over the war.
It also gave impetus also to those groups of all anti-ideals. Communists, on down. These folks didn't need truth to begin with, to my surprise, which i learned from the street theatre groups first, then others in the underground press.
All of this contributed to what was concieved to be, and was received as, a watershed moment.
When kerry said, he "had done these things, and thousands of others had too." the dam burst in public opinion.
A large part of the population wanted to beleive it. There were others that knew they were lying even at the time, but perpetrated it in angry, sometimes violent confrontations as if it were all true.
Then there was the overriding factor that most Americans felt our men at arms were not even being allowed to execute the war in a fashion that would allow them to succeed. So, any reason that would help bring them home, was "justifiable".
But taking all this into account, there remains a simple set of facts. Errors were discovered over the years, but no one cared.
Simply and basically because they thought they won the war at home by losing the war in Vietnam. They want to sit on their "winning laurels", self-satisfied in that knowledge..
That's what is at stake now. All those that conspired against the US, are at risk of being found out, philosopies overturned, legacies of lies taught for years in academia, tossed out, and the people that taught those legacies exposed as lazy frauds that never really looked for anymore truth.
I have more, but i type slowly and inaccurately, hope this helps..
_________________
said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
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