SwiftVets.com

[Aristotle The Hun]

I served as Campus Chaplain at UMKC in Kansas City. Our denomination allowed VVAW to meet at our facility. I was invited to join VVAW as the local chapter Chaplain.

I don't have any details on Kerry, but local VVAW leadership was always resisting the more radical elements in our group. More than once, we found out that our more radical members were actually FBI agents.

Sam
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Deportè Monsieur Kerrè

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Interesting.

How did you find out that the radical ones were FBI infiltrators? Was it word of mouth? What kind of proof did you have, or was it merely anecdotal.

It used to be a common accusation - that all the troublemaking in the anti-war movement was coming from the infiltrators.

I only vaguely remember my father talking about this.

If they'd have done much of this kind of thing, it would seem that they were setting themselves up for entrapment charges.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[Aristotle The Hun]

[Me#1You#10]

[Aristotle The Hun]

[Hammer2]

I don't doubt that there were FBI infiltrators. A responsible government has to be aware of the activities of and individuals behind any potentially subversive organization.
I well remember the accusations by the left at the time that the real violent ones were government agents. Most such stories were baloney.

There was a little truth to it however. Most information I could find involved the FBI COINTELPRO program of the time. The execrpt and link at the bottom are the only credible, well researched information about FBI & Govt. domestic intelligence operations I could find. All of the rest were leftist propaganda of one sort or another. A very few were right wing conspiracy nuts. The first link falls into the leftist category.

The left's view:
http://www.phillyimc.org/articles/00/08/04/199236.shtml

See this article that was contemporary to the time:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/10584

This is the most famous one that everyone pointed to as proof:
http://www.hws.edu/news/update/showwebclip.asp?webclipid=1300

This is an excerpt from:

FINAL REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE TO STUDY GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS WITH RESPECT TO INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES
April 23, 1976

Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW)

Letter to all offices dated 8/3/71 instructed each office to initiate a survey to determine existence of VVAW. This action was necessary in the light of increasing indication that the VVAW may be a target for infiltration by subversive groups such as the Communist Party USA and the Socialist Workers Party and their respective youth groups. VVAW has also been involved in aiding and financing U.S. deserters, including false identity papers and reportedly in one area has a cache of arms. VVAW has become increasingly active in the antiwar field and must be considered a prime target for infiltration. 587

Link to full report:

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIg.htm

Rather lengthy, but worth wading through.


I hope this helps clear things up.
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"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

[85 Scott]

I believe the VVAW had plenty of it's own radicals, although maybe not at all locations nationwide.

Consider how quickly the pro-communist VVAWAI spawned from it's beginnings in the VVAW during the mid 1970's. How Florida VVAW member Scott Camil has not denied his 1971 plan to assassinate US Senators.

And logically, just look at the typical leftist kooks that protest today.

The overwhelming majority are terribly un-informed, but they still despise this country with a vengence anyway. Almost every protest seems to have protesters that vandalize things.

So I'd have to say I believe the FBI files are the real deal.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[Aristotle The Hun]

All I'm saying is that the space of some years and the vision of some different vantage points could lead you to a different conclusion today about who those bad actors might have been.

The FBI simply could not have done all of the things which they were accused of doing, but the FBI agent-as-instigator is a myth of powerful proportions, even today.

It sounds as though you have had a very interesting life.[/quote]

Thanks to the posts made by you and others I now know more about the situation than I ever have.

I just assumed the "bad eggs" were FBI. It never occured to me that they might be something else. And you were right about membership vetting. Almost anyone who "said" they were a veteran was allowed to join and were not questioned unless they called attenetion to themselves later.

I have a counter on my web page and there are several hits from Swiftvets so I guess you folks are better at vetting than VVAW. Thanks for taking into account where I stand now. I would not want to be seen as still being sympathetic to VVAW.

And, yes I continue to have an interesting life. Likely to get more interesting by the weekend. Charlie, Frances, and now Ivan seem more real than politics these days.

Sam
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Deportè Monsieur Kerrè

[Navy_Navy_Navy]