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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| eecee wrote: |
Oh my, I actually did laugh out loud at that one ! Too funny ! |
Want to see a funnier one?
Google for "waffles" and see what's the first site listed in the results.
www.johnkerry.com
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 6:33 am Post subject: |
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First I have to say Go Lakers
| Quote: | | The entire country is not falling apart, there are isolated pockets of resistance. The majority of Iraqi' people just want to live their lives and have this process over, but are happy it was done. Obviously the abuse pictures have stirred up some animosity, but the open minded will see that the U.S. is not like Saddam and the people responsible for these acts will pay for it(Unfortunately so will those not responsible). |
The parts of the country that are falling apart are the worst ones. Faluja is still under control of the Iraqi's and we are still losing men there. My friend is in Faluja. Baghdad is in peril right now and if we had been smart, we would have found a way to work with Sadr when we had a chance. How much better a chance of an ally can you get than a man who's father was murdered by Saddam. Other parts of the country are deteriorating slowly but surely and our wounded are increasing in a bad way. We are stretched so thin that replacement troops are becoming scarce. Even our Generals on the ground are saying we are winning the battles but losing the war. You guys know better than anyone that our soldiers are second to none but when the majority of people don't want you there, it's impossible to stay in control.
| Quote: | | As for breeding legions of Al Qaeda recruits that is also only partially true. You are leaving out the fact that we are also breeding equal numbers of Al Qaeda adversaries. There will be an equal number of Al Qaeda adversaries because they will see first hand the goals of the Al Qaeda movement and it's need to kill with impunity and no sanctity for life, Muslim or not. Under oppression (from either religion or government) people are radicalized |
I wish that were true. Unfortunately we are doing nothing but enraging the Arab street. These people are still living under repressive regimes and we have done nothing to stop their respective regimes. Instead we have invaded one of their counries and put it under occupation. They have never needed a reason to hate us but the prison thing is unbelievably bad. The regimes in question would rather their people hate us because it keeps the people occupied. Every time we do something to enrage the fanatics, we lose the chance for moderate Muslims to speak out and defend us.
| Quote: | | My question to you would be who are you voting for and what are your reasons for voting for him (If you could give reasons for voting for him and not against the other guy that would be helpful)? |
Kerry
My reasons are many, but only a few relating to the war. First off I think the only way we can get our respect in the world back is through a change of leadership. I travel quite a bit and there are few people around the world that are even willing to defend us in public. It will be very difficult to call on our friends when we need them and we will become even more isolated than we are now. Furthermore I think we are going about the war on terror in the wrong way. Instead of making the world a partner in this, we have told them that we will do as we please and they better like it. Getting to the leaders of the terrorists requires more teamwork than this administration is willing to use.
My other reasons are domestic. Our country is being over run by big buisiness and we are being corporatized. I am not anti business but think we are losing our ballance. Regardless of the outcome for the working class, Bush has given the corps whatever they wanted. A good example of this is in Iraq now. The supply orders are now privatized and our troops are driving Haliburton trucks. There is also between 15,000 and 25,000 private contrater security people there. We all know that that is just a way to get more troops in there without having them be soldiers. But we are paying them $100,000 and up. I don't think many of you made that much and you had to fight by the rules.
The environment is very important to me as well. I have lived in most parts of this country and seen the effects of polution first hand.The Tongas forrest is now being clear cut and the admin is pushing for moe strip mining. I remember seeing a lot of this in Colo Springs in the '70's and it was not pretty. I live near the beach and have only seen the ocean life coming back in the last 5 or so years. Each one of these issues is only considered as a impediment to buisiness.
Ther are others, but I think this covers a decent amount.[/quote] |
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:11 am Post subject: |
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I didn't say it in my post but Kerry has a much better environmental record. He is also better traveled and has a better understanding of working with people as opposed to Bush.
This election is not in a vacume. Unfortunately there is only one perfect person as far as my agreement with him on the issues. And even I wouldn't vote for me. Given a choice between the three, I choose Kerry.
Thanks everyone who showed respect in this conversation. Especially the man who sent his best wishes about my friend.
Good Night |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:18 am Post subject: |
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[code]Well said, mikest.
I remember when conservatives tried to claim that Clinton was shaming America and that we were losing our allies. What pap!
According to a TIME poll
Q Who really poses the greatest danger to world peace? Iraq, North Korea or The United States."
North Korea
6.7 %
Iraq
6.3 %
The United States
86.9 %
Total Votes Cast: 706842
http://www.time.com/time/europe/gdml/peace2003.html
God, has Bush ever screwed things up. And thanks to the rightwing media, most Americans are absolutely oblivious to it. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Why do Europeans attack President Bush's line on war with Iraq?
They doubt Saddam is a danger
5.9%
They don't want Iraqis to die
4.1%
They fear war may spread
10.9%
They think war will hit efforts to beat terror
2.4%
They suspect Bush's motives
48.6%
They've forgotten the lesson of history
11.1%
They're jealous of America
13.7%
Total Votes Cast: 43858
http://www.time.com/gdml.dyn |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:28 am Post subject: |
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EU poll sees Israel as peace threat
Chris McGreal
Monday November 3, 2003
LONDON, England (CNN) -- The British public believes the United States and North Korea are bigger threats to world peace than Iraq, a survey released on Tuesday shows.
Despite the global drama surrounding Iraq, three out of four Britons no longer see it as a major danger, according to the Channel 4 News poll.
The percentage of people who see Iraq as a threat has fallen to 23 percent from 40 percent in November.
Meanwhile, concern over North Korea, which has said it is resurrecting its nuclear weapons program, increased from 4 percent to 27 percent.
The perception of danger from the United States grew from 27 percent to 32 percent.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1076442,00.html |
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JasonBinPNW
Ensign
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Vancouver (not BC), Washington (Not DC)
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| mikest wrote: | I didn't say it in my post but Kerry has a much better environmental record. He is also better traveled and has a better understanding of working with people as opposed to Bush.
This election is not in a vacume. Unfortunately there is only one perfect person as far as my agreement with him on the issues. And even I wouldn't vote for me. Given a choice between the three, I choose Kerry.
Thanks everyone who showed respect in this conversation. Especially the man who sent his best wishes about my friend.
Good Night |
I disagree with your second paragraph.
Your vote is not obligated to anyone. It is your voice. If Kerry does not earn it, then go with someone who has. You agree 100% with Nader, then vote Nader. It is the fear of "losing" taht keeps 3rd parties out of the debate in this country. It is for that same reason that people don't vote the way the framers of the constitution intended, and in doing so,they perpetuate our limited 2-party system.
Don't vote for someone you don't want to vote for. That goes for votes for President Bush as well. Voting for a candidate when you KNOW there is a better candidate in your opinion does not maintain the integrity of the process, it does the opposite, and it decays your moral integrity as well.
For the record:
I did not say "Vote X", I said vote for who you agree with, and would feel most comfortable with as president. And yes, I realize that a vote for someone else is a vote against Kerry, and I say again, if he doesn't EARN your vote, don't give it to him.
Short tangent: My office is in Portland, OR. The top boss is voting Socialist, EVP is voting Nader, JVP is voting Kucinich (as a write in if need be), my boss is voting Kerry, I am voting Bush,, my parallel #1 is going Libertarian, parallel #2 is voting Bush, and Parallel #3 is voting Kerry.
That is integrity of belief. That is democracy. Don' tvote for a major party candidate if you don't want to.
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Semper Fi!
Jason
Proud member of "The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The top boss is voting Socialist |
That's literally incredible. |
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Wondering
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Wondering on Wed May 12, 2004 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wondering
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Did a search for Iraq + war + good on google and got 4,280,000 hits.
Here.
Did a google search for Iraq+war+bad and got 2,730,000 hits.
Here.
So looks like it was a good thing if you use your flawed logic.
Your logic for what is correct and how to determine it is utterly flawed. You have to do better then that. Are you ever going to get around to getting back on topic or do you not have a good answer and that is why you are avoiding it?
As for the Bush families connection to Saudi Arabia, of course they have connections. His family comes out of the oil business. Like I said your Red Herring arguments are boring, please offer some real arguments or quit your flaming. You are discrediting yourself with every post.
And why are you posting statistics and polls. Don't you know those are flawed ways of getting information. I guess you don't and that is why you use google searches to find out what popular opinion is. |
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Your vote is not obligated to anyone. It is your voice. If Kerry does not earn it, then go with someone who has. You agree 100% with Nader, then vote Nader. It is the fear of "losing" taht keeps 3rd parties out of the debate in this country. |
I meant the only person I agree with is me. Of the three, Kerry is who I agrre with most. Write in's are out of the question except in protest and even then it's best to leave the top line blank. |
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JasonBinPNW
Ensign
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Vancouver (not BC), Washington (Not DC)
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mikest wrote: | | Quote: | | Your vote is not obligated to anyone. It is your voice. If Kerry does not earn it, then go with someone who has. You agree 100% with Nader, then vote Nader. It is the fear of "losing" taht keeps 3rd parties out of the debate in this country. |
I meant the only person I agree with is me. Of the three, Kerry is who I agrre with most. Write in's are out of the question except in protest and even then it's best to leave the top line blank. |
Roger that.
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Semper Fi!
Jason
Proud member of "The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" |
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JasonBinPNW
Ensign
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Vancouver (not BC), Washington (Not DC)
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Quote: | | The top boss is voting Socialist |
That's literally incredible. |
Not at all. I work for an ADR firm. Employment Law takes all kinds. (No, I am not an attorney).
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Semper Fi!
Jason
Proud member of "The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" |
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Wondering
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| mikest wrote: | First I have to say Go Lakers
The parts of the country that are falling apart are the worst ones. Faluja is still under control of the Iraqi's and we are still losing men there. My friend is in Faluja. Baghdad is in peril right now and if we had been smart, we would have found a way to work with Sadr when we had a chance. How much better a chance of an ally can you get than a man who's father was murdered by Saddam. Other parts of the country are deteriorating slowly but surely and our wounded are increasing in a bad way. We are stretched so thin that replacement troops are becoming scarce. Even our Generals on the ground are saying we are winning the battles but losing the war. You guys know better than anyone that our soldiers are second to none but when the majority of people don't want you there, it's impossible to stay in control. |
First of all working with Sadr would not be good. He is not respected by most of his country men who view him as a radical and very unstable. He is in the middle of a desperate power grab. Working with him would be a big mistake. Secondly, the problem areas are the poorest ones. Again poverty leads to many of the problems. A way to combat that would be to use less foreign contractors and more Iraqi contractors.
| mikest wrote: |
I wish that were true. Unfortunately we are doing nothing but enraging the Arab street. These people are still living under repressive regimes and we have done nothing to stop their respective regimes. Instead we have invaded one of their counries and put it under occupation. They have never needed a reason to hate us but the prison thing is unbelievably bad. The regimes in question would rather their people hate us because it keeps the people occupied. Every time we do something to enrage the fanatics, we lose the chance for moderate Muslims to speak out and defend us. |
How can you say we have done nothing to stop this? We are in the middle of cleaning up after waging war on one of those oppressive regimes. We removed the Taliban from power, another oppressive regime. Also, as you can see by the recent reports surrounding Berge the moderate Muslims are crying out against his murder and Al Qaeda is making more enemies in the Muslim world.
As for your reasons for wanting to voting for Kerry, they are valid. Not that you need my validation I'm sure. That's why this is great system. You have the choice to choose. |
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mikest
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hatred of America is at an all time high in the ME. We continue to ally ouselves with extremely repressive regimes like the Saudi's and Pakastani's, Pak is because of convenience but we will have to deal with them at some point. We have turned our eyes from Uzbekastan while it's leaders have litterally boiled it's dissadents alive. We send prisoners to neighboring countries of Iraq because they can be tortured there. We have put a gen in Iraq, Boykin, who has declared Islam "evil."
Dissengaging from the I/P situation was a terrible mistake compounded by the unilateral approval of Sharon's plan. That alone has badly damaged our cred as a negotiator in the area. Evan Blair was taken way aback by that and his job is starting to look shakey.
We left Afghanistan unfinished so we could move onto Iraq. |
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