SwiftVets.com

[Mary Ann Parker]

Please visit the site and carefully explore.
This is the real deal.
A canon lawyer has gotten official word to his complaint.

Make it an inquisitive day.
Mary Ann Parker
********************

http://www.defide.com/

Visit the links as well.

[Hondo]

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

According to their web site, De Fide's complaint "is currently under review by the Archdiocese of Boston." The Archdiocese of Boston has been a consistent supporter of Kennedy causes and allies since well before John Kennedy was elected President in 1960. (The support after Chappaquiddick has made me wonder if old Joe Kennedy had some kind of dirt on Cardinal Spellman.)

Kerry is a close political ally of Ted Kennedy.

My best guess is nothing before the first of the year - if then - followed by a refusal to consider the complaint.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[Mary Ann Parker]

Hey There Hondo!!!
Think about the order of power in the church.
They may not get to dodge this bullet!
Make it a hopeful, happy day.
Mary Ann Parker

[Stevie]

wow, thought I was gonna have to try and remember some latin from high school .....

guess we can 'pressume' that Kerry is excommunicated !
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

[Tom Poole]

Since the response was dated September 11, 2004, why haven't we already seen the headline KERRY EXCOMMUNICATED!! in the OIM (Old Irrelevant Media, pka MSM)? LOL
_________________
'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2

[Hondo]

I'm afraid I must stand by my opinion above. I doubt we'll see anything here, for several reasons.

1. De Fide appears to be a Catholic lay group. It is not connected with the Church hierarchy. With the possible exception of the Anglican (Episcopal) Church, the Catholic Church is the most hierarchical of all major Christian denominations. Barring a complete deviation from established doctrine on the part of the bishop concerned, the Church has historically given bishops great latitude in handling complaints of this nature and has been extremely reluctant to second-guess them on internal matters.

2. The American Catholic Church has traditionally given Catholic politicians great latitude on those issues where Church doctrine may be partially or even totally at odds with US public policy. (Indeed, John Kennedy himself addressed this issue during his 1960 campaign.) This has particularly been true on reproductive issues. I know of no US Catholic political figure who has been excommunicated due to his/her support for legal aboriton or artificial birth control, even though both are strictly against current Church doctrine. The most likely reason is that, as a minority religion (although the largest single religious organization in the US, Catholics make up only about 24% of the US population), the US Catholic Church sees a complete separation of Church and state as a good thing and is quite reluctant to do anything to hazard this.

3. The US Catholic Church has traditionally been one of the most liberal and independant in the world. This is due to the fact that the US population is quite liberal on social issues and highly mistrustful of foreign advice. The US Church hierarchy does not want to alienate its faithful by imposing "foreign" dictates on social issues where there is not a consensus among the faithful.

4. Finally, the US Catholic Church hierarchy is a large bureaucreacy with political and temporal, as well as religious, interests. They will be hesitant to offend the "high and mighty" without being essentially forced to do so due to fear of losing the respect of the lay population. Kerry's support for legal abortion won't provide sufficient force.

Again, my best guess is nothing before the first of the year - if then - followed by a refusal to consider the complaint.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[Mary Ann Parker]

I may be wrong.
I believe that an OFFICIAL decision from the Vatican is
superior to anything the BISHOP might decide.
(if and when that is DECLARED)
They may offer opinion etc., however they do not have
the AUTHORITY to derail the decision.
Let us keep the faith.

Remember. "When FAITH goes to market, it takes
a BASKET".

I am an optimist.
I happen to thik the "fly is trying to get OUT of the house".

Make it a keeping the faith day.
Mary Ann Parker

[Hondo]

I agree that the Vatican has the power to issue a Papal Edict along the lines of "Any Catholic public figure must, on pain of excommunicaiton, refrain from supporting public policy he or she knows to be against Catholic doctrine. Each Bishop will see that this edict is followed within their diocese."

To my knowledge, no such edict ever has been issued. It is my belief that the Vatican will never issue such an edict. History is the reason. The Vatican tried, for nearly a millenia, to be a temporal as well as a spiritual power. The Reformation and its accompanying religious wars demonstrated that - at least in the West - politics and religion only safely mix if politics dominates the temporal and religion generally limits itself to the spiritual. Church leadership knows well its own history.

If the Vatican ever does issue such an edict, I believe that you will see a Schism that will make the breakaway of the Anglican Church look small in comparison. I also don't think the Schism would be limited to the US Church.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[RonOneCoastie]

Deleted by Admin: Please refrain from disparaging comments about anyone's religion. Thank you.

[Mary Ann Parker]

Hondo
I am also a realist, as well as an optimist.
You are certainly right if the "natural" in man prevails.
I am still counting on another power.
I really do pray that there will be a healing and a
revival of the faithful.
You are so informed, I sense a special knowledge.
On a very serious note thanks for sharing.

Make it a great day.
Mary Ann Parker

[Me#1You#10]

Let's take this discussion elsewhere...thanks.

Admin