 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sdpatriot
Ensign
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 50
Location: SD
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:50 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Dear War Dog and fellow conservatives,
i have come to the conclusion after much bewilderment, that the
only answer as to why liberals claim to not see the bias in the
media, schools, courts etc., is not because there is no liberal bias,
but because in their view there is not ENOUGH liberal bias.
i really don't know how it could be much worse before they are all
satisfied. let's not find out. i was certainly proud of VP Cheney today,
maybe it's the beginning of a new trend.
that's the only conclusion i can come up with.
regards,
sdpatriot
_________________
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."
George Washington, Farewell Address, September 19, 1796 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
oldkayaker
Ensign
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 52
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:44 am Post subject: lib vs con |
|
|
Ok...headway is being made here.
Now, would a Lib please tell us what it means to be him or her?
And would a Con please tell us what it means to be him or her?
I get a little wary of Cons telling me what a Lib is all about or visa versa.
I am non-partisan and don't really understand what being either a lib or con means today. Certainly there isn't much difference between the libs or cons when it comes to spending my tax money. When it comes to picking a political candidate, I like to pick and choose hopefully the best of the bunch having voted Repub, Dem and even Independent over the years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oldkayaker,
I think this tells the story nicely!
| Quote: | Our Republican Substitute Teacher
Mike S. Adams (archive)
June 18, 2004
I’ll never forget the day that Mr. Wright came to teach our kindergarten class while Ms. Simpleton was out having surgery. The day before she left for the hospital she was teaching us how President Bush was giving tax cuts to the rich instead of ordinary Americans. That was during our math lesson.
When Mr. Wright came to our class, he taught us about taxes by using Oreo cookies. We had used Oreo cookies in class once before when Mrs. Simpleton was talking about Clarence Thomas. She said he was black on the outside and white on the inside. I didn’t really understand that. My mom told me it was a crude joke and not to repeat it.
But here’s how Mr. Wright used the cookies in our class:
“Okay kids, the first thing you have to understand about taxes is that rich people pay more taxes than anyone else in America. They also pay a greater percentage of their income in taxes than anyone else in America. So, let’s say that a rich person pays five cookies to the government in taxes, a middle class person pays one cookie, and a poor person pays half a cookie. When it comes time to cut taxes, would it make sense for everyone to get back a whole cookie?”
That’s when Johnnie raised his hand and said, “No.”
“That’s right, Johnnie,” said Mr. Wright. “The poor person doesn’t deserve a whole cookie because he never paid a whole cookie in taxes in the first place. And the middle class person wouldn’t be paying any taxes at all if he got back a whole cookie. So class, remember, Mrs. Simpleton doesn’t really want a fair tax system. She just wants to reap the rewards of government programs and services without having to pay for them.”
Then Johnnie raised his hand again and asked, “Are you a Republican, Mr. Wright?”
Mr. Wright wouldn’t answer that question. Instead, he told us a story that he once heard, which he said could be used to teach anyone to distinguish between a Democrat and a Republican within minutes of making their acquaintance. It went something like this:
“A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She lowered her altitude and spotted a man in a boat below. She shouted to him, ‘Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don’t know where I am.’ The man consulted his portable GPS and replied, ‘You’re in a hot air balloon approximately 30 feet above a ground elevation of 2346 feet above sea level. You are at 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes north latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude.’
She rolled her eyes and said, ‘You must be a Republican.’
‘I am,’ replied the man. ‘How did you know?’
‘Well,’ answered the balloonist, ‘everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to do with your information, and I’m still lost. Frankly, you’ve not been much help to me.’
The man smiled and said, ‘You must be a Democrat.’
‘I am,’ replied the balloonist. ‘How did you know?’
‘Well,’ said the man, ‘you don’t know where you are or where you are going. You’ve risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise that you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. You’re in exactly the same position you were in before we met but, somehow, it’s my fault.’”
We learned a lot from Mr. Wright that day. Before we went home, Mr. Wright said that he was going to come back the next day and teach us about school vouchers. But for some reason we never had Mr. Wright as a substitute teacher again. And Mrs. Simpleton stopped buying us Oreo cookies.
Dr. Adams' recent lecture at Yale Law School will air on C-SPAN 2 at 9:45 a.m. EST on Saturday, June 19th. It will air again at 4:30 a.m. EST on Monday, June 21st. His lecture will cover topics from his new book, "Welcome to the Ivory Tower of Babel." Dr. Adams can be reached at www.DrAdams.org. |
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ROWELG
Ensign
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 64
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oldkayaker says: "When it comes to picking a political candidate, I like to pick and choose"
What specifically are your own personal criteria that you gauge them to? As choosing is a decision, usually we all have MUSTS and WANTS that we gauge the alternatives to.
For my criteria, I first MUST choose those who will keep the expansion of Washington to the annual growth rate of inflation, or around 2-3%.
Second, I MUST have a National Government supporting a strong and latest technology defense system, with well paid and fed volunteers. That is the primary function of Washington, to defend the Republic, and those citizen's abroad.
Third, I MUST choose those who will keep taxes down such that we have a growth of GNP (economy) exceeding inflation. Gross National Product, or GNP, is the amount of goods and services produced by residents of a country, regardless of where that production takes place, government excluded for they produce naught. That means not having half the new college graduates or employment growths being done via government bureaucracy hirings to make employment figures look good.
I WANT a small deficit, but I am not concerned about the national deficit this election. Why? I see all the stored surpluses by our many other internal governments. Nobody looks at the surplus or the accumulated wealth of States, Counties, and Cities. In 1984, in the Reagan era, INTRA GOVERNMENTAL funds that held the national debt was 17%, and that excludes State and local governments. . In 2002 (the last report), that 17% grew to 43%. Now where did the States get all those savings to buy national debt? Maybe from all the entitlements flowing into them from the 1990's politicians.
In the 20th Century there were 70 deficit years, and 30 surplus years. And at least 20 of those surplus years were before 1930, before income taxes, and before Roosevelt's New Deal of a Chicken in every pot. We did managed a surplus in 1969. In spite of 70 years of straight deficits, the economy grew by a factor of 11, inflation considered.
I WANT to keep the National Debt in balance with the Gross National Product, to keep the denominator increasing faster (>4%) than the numerator (<2.3%).
Another way of looking at the ND/GNP ratio is to ask how many man- hours of labor it would take for each working American to pay off his share of the National Debt. In 1985, the Reagan debt, American workers would earn the National Debt in about 5 months. In 1945 after WWII, 15 months! All years in the middle were deficits. ND/GNP ratio during Reagan was from 0.35 to 0.42. In 1871 it was .35. In 1935 during the Great Depression and before welfare, it was .44. After WWII it was 1.28, and we were not in economic peril. In 1996 (Clinton era) it was .72. I think at this time it is about .53. When this ratio gets to 1.28 again, I will worry.
_________________
Politics: public debate over ideas/values to decide the heart of a civilization.
Debate: To provoke thought in open minded readers and listeners.
Partisan: BLIND, prejudiced, unreasoned devotion to a party, faction, envisioned theory, or person. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm afraid my method of choosing who received my vote is pretty basic and simple:
"Who would I be willing to invite to my home and would I trust them with my children?"
That about sums it up. If I can't trust them to take care of my kid, I'm certainly not going to trust them to take care of my country.
_________________
Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oldkayaker
Ensign
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 52
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject: lib vs con |
|
|
Rowelg
You asked and I will reply:
| Quote: | What specifically are your own personal criteria that you gauge them to? As choosing is a decision, usually we all have MUSTS and WANTS that we gauge the alternatives to.
For my criteria, I first MUST choose those who will keep the expansion of Washington to the annual growth rate of inflation, or around 2-3%. DISAGREE US should live within our means
Second, I MUST have a National Government supporting a strong and latest technology defense system, with well paid and fed volunteers. That is the primary function of Washington, to defend the Republic, and those citizen's abroad. AGREE as long as the spending is within our means.
Third, I MUST choose those who will keep taxes down such that we have a growth of GNP (economy) exceeding inflation. Gross National Product, or GNP, is the amount of goods and services produced by residents of a country, regardless of where that production takes place, government excluded for they produce naught. That means not having half the new college graduates or employment growths being done via government bureaucracy hirings to make employment figures look good. AGREE with most but [color=red]DISAGREE with | Quote: | | regardless of where that production takes place* |
I WANT a small deficit, but I am not concerned about the national deficit this election. Why? I see all the stored surpluses by our many other internal governments. Nobody looks at the surplus or the accumulated wealth of States, Counties, and Cities. In 1984, in the Reagan era, INTRA GOVERNMENTAL funds that held the national debt was 17%, and that excludes State and local governments. . In 2002 (the last report), that 17% grew to 43%. Now where did the States get all those savings to buy national debt? Maybe from all the entitlements flowing into them from the 1990's politicians.
In the 20th Century there were 70 deficit years, and 30 surplus years. And at least 20 of those surplus years were before 1930, before income taxes, and before Roosevelt's New Deal of a Chicken in every pot. We did managed a surplus in 1969. In spite of 70 years of straight deficits, the economy grew by a factor of 11, inflation considered.
I WANT to keep the National Debt in balance with the Gross National Product, to keep the denominator increasing faster (>4%) than the numerator (<2.3%).
Another way of looking at the ND/GNP ratio is to ask how many man- hours of labor it would take for each working American to pay off his share of the National Debt. In 1985, the Reagan debt, American workers would earn the National Debt in about 5 months. In 1945 after WWII, 15 months! All years in the middle were deficits. ND/GNP ratio during Reagan was from 0.35 to 0.42. In 1871 it was .35. In 1935 during the Great Depression and before welfare, it was .44. After WWII it was 1.28, and we were not in economic peril. In 1996 (Clinton era) it was .72. I think at this time it is about .53. When this ratio gets to 1.28 again, I will worry. |
.
(*)Disagree because if you are going to use ND/GNP ratios to gauge spending then the GNP should only include products made by and in USA since products made in other countries use workers who don't pay for the US debt with their taxes.
Sooo....Rowelg, is it fair to say you are a con as you defined above?
Last edited by oldkayaker on Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:56 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PhuCat to Phu Quoc
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 110
Location: California
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's the way I see it.
1. Most persons referred to as "liberals" are not "liberal", they are progressives, a broad term which includes communists, socialists, monkey wrenchers, animal rights activists, feminists, antiwar activists, anti-smoking Nazis, gun control fascists, environmentalists, multiculturalists, tribalists and all manner of new age mystics. Take note that there is the Progressive Policy Institute, and arm of Clinton's Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), and there is the House Progressive Caucus, that includes Vermont socialist Congressman Bernie Sanders as one of the caucus leaders. Progressives are statists in the traditional Liberal frame of reference. Elect a John Kerry as President, and the progressives will be energized, believing they have been handed a mandate.
2. The real liberals today, the capital "L" Liberals are found mostly among conservatives, usually Republicans. These real Liberals tend to stick closer to the limited government envisioned by those original Liberals (the Founders) as expressed in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I think it is fair to say that today's conservatives strive to "conserve" the Constitution. There are statists in the conservative ranks, but not to the extreme found among so-called liberals (progressives) who seek to involve government as the solution to every problem, whether small or large, real or contrived. Re-elect George W. Bush as President, and real Liberals, along with liberty and the pursuit of happiness stand a far better chance than with John Kerry.
The real problem as I see it; setting aside comparisons of liberal vs. conservative for a moment; is that Democrats initiate, Republicans consolidate.
And that's the way I see it.
_________________
I'm a U.S. Navy Vietnam War vet against John Kerry
Phu Cat to Phu Quoc 1969-1970
Did Jane Fonda help the North Vietnamese communists?
http://vikingphoenix.com/politics/polls/jfondapoll-1.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let me just pose a question on this topic!
Since the immergence of the "The New Liberal" in the early 1930's and their co-opting of the traditional Democratic Party, Can you name one, even one, liberal social or governmental initiative that hasn't led to crisis?
Just one that can't be factually refuted?
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB
Last edited by ASPB on Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PhuCat to Phu Quoc
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 110
Location: California
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ASPB wrote: | Let me just pose a question on this topic!
Since the immergence of the "The New Liberal" in the early 1930's and their co-opting of the traditional Democratic Party, Can you name one, even one, liberal social or governmental initiative that hasn't led to crisis?
Just one that can't be factually refuted? |
I sure can't. If you listed all the government initiatives of Roosevelt's New Deal, maybe we could discuss them one by one. I personally like all the murals in the older post offices, and I don't think that has led to a crisis, unless you can establish a link between taxpayer money for art in post offices led directly to "Pis Christ" paid for by taxpayer money.
The current Social Security system came out of FDR's New Deal, and has grown topsy turvy if not exponentially since 1934 and now we have Social Security Numbers as de facto ID, something that sponsors of the Townsend Act of 1934 piously denied could ever happen.
On the other hand, I think most of Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" initiatives have been repudiated as failures.
I think John Kerry sees himself as a combination of FDR, JFK, and LBJ, complete with his own Silver Star, and backed by the Heinz fortune. JFK and LBJ were also Senators.
_________________
I'm a U.S. Navy Vietnam War vet against John Kerry
Phu Cat to Phu Quoc 1969-1970
Did Jane Fonda help the North Vietnamese communists?
http://vikingphoenix.com/politics/polls/jfondapoll-1.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PhuCat to Phu Quoc wrote: | | On the other hand, I think most of Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" initiatives have been repudiated as failures. |
I think that the case could be made that the Democratic party's biggest problems began with LBJ's "Great Society". John F. Kennedy must be doing 3,000 RPM when he listens to brother Ted, not to mention the Senator from Massachusetts with the same initials!
Is that a hum I hear coming from beneath the Eternal Flame? Or is it just Zell Miller's Walkman?
_________________
Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
"On the other hand, I think most of Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" initiatives have been repudiated as failures. "
Medicare and others |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sparky wrote: | It says quite a bit about a man that during those years he *wasn't* in the
jungle, on a river, taking shrapnel and taking risks and making life-long
friends and is instead remembered by nobody for long stretches of time
with none coming forward
|
.............................. "life-long friends" ?????? ................................
....... 
.............................. "with none coming forward" .....................................
It says quite a bit about a man that during those years when others were
in the jungle, on a river, taking shrapnel and taking risks, that he instead
was in a meeting with the enemies of those soldiers, whose result was to
produce propaganda in the media and Congress that would deceive the
country into believing that hundreds of thousands would NOT perish if the
United States just walked away from its obligations in South East Asia.
But there was no shame for that man. Instead he is today revered in the
War Crimes Museum in HCM City for helping win the political war for the
Communists. That was terribly wrong then. He is terribly wrong today.
.
Last edited by rbshirley on Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hist/student
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 243
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
retracted
Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RBshirley, Kerry wasn't referring to that grouping of officers, a group he didn't have an indepth acquaintance with. Those who served *directly* with Kerry, or who you refer to as his "buddies," are unanimously in support of him except for one.
Not bad. There's at least one dittohead in every bunch. This one, Gardner, calls the Vietnamese "gooks."
So, yes, his band of brothers that were on the same boat with him -- at the same time -- are his "lifelong friends." They actually *served* with Kerry and know him well.
And yes, it says quite a bit about a man that during those years he *wasn't* in the jungle, on a river, taking shrapnel and taking risks and making life-long friends and is instead remembered by nobody for long stretches of time with none coming forward.
Especially when you consider how frequently pictures were being taken. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hist/student
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 243
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
retracted
Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
