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George Danenhauer
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: Missing Explosives most likely destroyed by U.S. Troops |
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Actually IAEA, NYtimes, CBS and Mr. Kerry, our troops did there job and destroyed the stuff! Please help to get the message out on this theory.
The U.S. has destroyed on the order of 400,000 tons of explosives, etc. from news reports and, as indicated below, it was the mission of "Task Force Bullet" to "consolidat[e] and account[] for all captured Iraqi ammunition" at the Taji Ammunition Depot.
"The captured ammunition and weaponry are taken to two locations: a quarry named Red Rocket, which, by convoy, is about 90 minutes north of Baghdad, where it is destroyed; or a former Iraqi military base in Taji, where it is stored to be turned over to the follow-up Iraqi army. About 30 percent of what is found and recovered can be saved."
These activities were well underway in June 2003 involving, apparently, 60-80 large truckloads per day.
I've seen no indication that anyammunition or weapons remain at Al-Qaqaa today ... perhaps Al Qaqaa is now empty .... emptied by the Coalition and its contents destroyed. These articles certainly imply that the plan in June 2003 was to consolidate ALL of Iraq's ammunition and explosives at Taji for retention or destruction.
The Iraqi government is merely reporting as a formality to the IAEA that the explosives are no longer at Al Qaqaa, perhaps without having records or knowledge that they were trucked off and destroyed along with everything else. The Iraqis may see the site as "looted" when in reality the U.S. has emptied its contents.
This theory also meshes nicely with the stated fact that no Iraqis would have been able to sneek in and truck this stuff off --- We trucked it off!
I also note that these destruction activities were well underway when the Iraq Survey Group was just starting - and the Iraq Survey Group would be the first one's to seek out these explosives, it's predecessor was focused on locating active WMDs that would have posed an immediate threat to our troops (i.e. chem and bio weapons). The Survey Group went in to document the WMD programs, of which these explosives would form a minor part.
Here is what I found to back this theory up:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2003/031104-articles.htm
LTC Mark Drake, 19 Jun 03
OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM
The 811thOrdnance Company establishes Ammunition Holding Areas, and is called by V Corps to account for and store all of the Iraqi Captured Ammunition in Taji, Iraq.
The 811th Ordnance Company, under the 548th CSB, from West Virginia has met every challenge we have thrown at them. In the initial stages of the war the ammunition and supply mission was simply get it north, now! The 811th rolled out into Iraq with critical supplies and equipment to meet the 101st Airborne Division’s (Air Assault) needs on a regular basis. Simultaneously, their ammunition handlers, worked to prepared and loaded ammunition on Chinook helicopters in Kuwait to be pushed forward to the soldiers who needed to maintain the fierce fighting in Iraq.
At Camp New York they dramatically enhanced the operation and safety of the Ammunition Holding Area. Other units quickly noticed the 811th capabilities and professionalism. When the 548th relocated to Iskandariyah, Iraq they once more called upon to assist the 24th Ordnance Company to establish and operate the Corps Ammunition Storage Area (CSA) at LSA Dogwood. Once again, they excelled and turned-in excess divisional ammunition at a remarkable pace. This eased the external lift requirements tremendously, as the Division relocated to Mosul.
The 811th yet again bound to LSA Anaconda and shortly after their arrival, the battalion received a fragmentation order that they were selected to accomplish the awesome task of consolidating and accounting for all captured Iraqi ammunition. They also were directed to establish yet another Ammunition Holding Area. This mission is now known as “Task Force Bullet”. Sixty to Eighty truckloads of enemy ammunition arrive daily to Taji and the 811th undertakes the mission with ease.
Daily, they are met with the challenges of avoiding thousands of unexploded ordnance munitions, chemicals, and nightly harassment fire from outside the perimeter. History will capture the efforts of the 811th, and the new Iraqi Corps will owe thanks and praise to the professionalism of the unit that established their new and improved ammunition stocks.
http://www.brandonblog.com/war-blog-110.html
Babenhausen soldiers' tally: Two months, 18 million pounds of munitions recovered
By Sandra Jontz, Stars and Stripes
European edition, Sunday, June 22, 2003
Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Trucks, or HEMTTs, of the Babenhausen-based 41st Field Artillery Brigade convoy out of Baghdad on their way to Red Rocket, a quarry where Iraqi munitions are held before being destroyed.
Michael Abrams / S&S
Pfc. Bryan Kirkland of the 41st Field Artillery Brigade shoulders two Iraqi artillery shell propellant bags at Red Rocket.
Michael Abrams / S&S
The soldiers of the 41st Field Artillery Brigade unload Iraqi munitions at Red Rocket, a quarry northwest of Baghdad. The muntions are kept there until they are destroyed.
Michael Abrams / S&S
Spc. Mitch Kruse, left, waits for Pfc. Anthony Pledger to hand him a mortar shell as the two 41st Field Artillery Brigade soldiers load up Iraqi munitions at Camp Abel.
Michael Abrams / S&S
The soldiers of the Babenhausen, Germany-based 41st Field Artillery Brigade have mainly one thing on their minds at the moment, and this sign at their camp at LSA Dogwood points there.
BAGHDAD, Iraq — It’s been months since U.S. missiles stopped falling on Baghdad, but field artillery soldiers who arrived in Iraq before the shooting started still aren’t going home.
They have another mission ahead of them.
Soldiers from the 41st Field Artillery Brigade from Babenhausen, Germany, are part of Task Force Bullet, an effort to clear weapons and ammunition from a smattering of public places in Baghdad.
In two months, the Babenhausen soldiers have collected 18 million pounds worth, pulling them from houses, mosques, churches and schools, said brigade commander Col. Chuck Otterstedt III.
“This is definitely a nonstandard mission,” Otterstedt said.
There are two field artillery groups operating in the country, the 41st and the 17th Field Artillery Brigade out of Fort Sill, Ga.
“We’re going into public places and trying to get [ordnance],” said Maj. Michael Gabel, the 1st Battalion’s operations officer.
“It’s a public safety issue, and we’ve probably saved a hell of a lot of lives.”
The soldiers have found it all, from small arms ammunition to SA-2 and SA-7 surface-to-air missiles.
But there have been no signs of the elusive weapons of mass destruction that President Bush used as a reason for committing U.S. troops to the war.
“We’ve seen a lot of things that I’ve never seen before, but no WMD,” said Spc. Ayofemi Terrence, 20, an ammunition specialist with 608th Ordnance Company out of Fort Benning, Ga.
“You’d think we would have come across some, and we’ve been looking for some time. I’m not quite sure we’re going to find them.”
“We’re out doing something good here,” said Pfc. Josh Rogers, 25, adding he was “kind of shocked” to learn of the change in mission. “We have no training for this at all.”
But the soldiers are learning quickly and have tackled the job with a zeal he’s not seen before, said battalion commander Lt. Col. Jeff Lieb, 41, who pitched in to lift 120-pound boxes of munitions — leading by example.
The soldiers have learned the proper way to stack rocket propelled grenades and to stay away from ammunition labeled with a black band, indicating the presence of highly explosive white phosphorous.
“Make no mistake about it, this is a dangerous mission,” Lieb said.
The captured ammunition and weaponry are taken to two locations: a quarry named Red Rocket, which, by convoy, is about 90 minutes north of Baghdad, where it is destroyed; or a former Iraqi military base in Taji, where it is stored to be turned over to the follow-up Iraqi army. About 30 percent of what is found and recovered can be saved.
The soldiers of the 41st temporarily make their home in a desolate camp named Dogwood, about an hour’s drive southwest of Baghdad. There are no trees, no picturesque views, just bland-colored sand, a talc-fine powder the wind whips up and deposits in ears, tear ducts, mouths. There’s no running water; electricity comes from the noisy generators that pepper the compound.
But they are a creative and resourceful bunch: They jury- rigged a pump — normally used to spray down and decontaminate vehicles of chemical and biological agents — to a water buffalo that pumps water to a tank where water is heated by the sun and then flows to three faucets in three plywood boxes. Voilà: showers.
Hubcaps, iron plates and the like have been welded to steel bars for weights the soldiers lift during their free time.
The soldiers are almost done with their search and disposal mission.
“We’re days away from being complete in removing enemy ammunition out of Baghdad,” Gabel said. “We’re coming to the end of the show here.”
And yet, they still aren’t going home. Instead, they are moving west, Otterstedt said.
“I do what I’m told to do, and I’m used to changes. It’s no big deal,” said Pfc. Tommy Martinsen, 28, a surveyor.
Some are teaching local civilians the skills they picked up, to eventually transfer duties to civilian contractors. They want to pass on their knowledge, but they also have an ulterior motive.
“The sooner they learn to handle these,” said Sgt. Ferdinand Berrios, 26, “the sooner we get to go home.” |
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George Danenhauer
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ah yes, the nonpartisan, unbiased NYtimes.
From Kevin McCullough's site http://kmclive.com/ we have this:
| Quote: | So the photos do show trucks being loaded at Al QaQaa...
~7:22am~ EST
PHOTOS CONFIRM - LARGE TRUCKS AT AL QAQAA: It is the worst of all possibilities for John Kerry. While he is busy blaming the troops for the missing weapons that were never there on their watch. While he is accusing them of being incompetent when it came to securing weapons of mass destruction. While he spit in their face the way he did to the Prisoners of War after he returned from Vietnam. The Pentagon is now providing addtional evidence that further deconstructs the now debunked New York Times story of the missing weapons.
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| Quote: | This photo as released late yesterday by the Pentagon and taken prior to our arrival on the scene shows pairs of trucks and heavy equipment transporters.
At the very least it demonstrates that the regime was moving SOMETHING prior to our arrival.
John Kerry's willingness to be critical of our troops, while they are fighting for his freedom, and by his team's own admission - before they know the facts sends a huge message of the lengths Kerry is willing to go to use ANYTHING at his disposal to win. I only wished he would do "whatever it takes" to put America first, instead of his own ambition.
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From Bill Gertz of the Washington Times, one of the finest reporters on the beat: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041028-115519-3700r.htm
| Quote: | Photos point to removal of weapons
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
U.S. intelligence agencies have obtained satellite photographs of truck convoys that were at several weapons sites in Iraq in the weeks before U.S. military operations were launched, defense officials said yesterday.
The photographs indicate that Iraq was moving arms and equipment from its known weapons sites, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
According to one official, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, known as NGA, "documented the movement of long convoys of trucks from various areas around Baghdad to the Syrian border."
The official said the convoys are believed to include shipments of sensitive armaments, including equipment used in making plastic explosives and nuclear weapons.
About 380 tons of RDX and HMX, used in making such arms, were reported missing from the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility, though the Pentagon and an embedded NBC News correspondent said the facility appeared to have been emptied by the time U.S. forces got there.
The photographs bolster the claims of Pentagon official John A. Shaw, who told The Washington Times on Wednesday that recent intelligence reports indicate Russian special forces units took part in a sophisticated dispersal operation from January 2003 to March 2003 to move key weapons out of Iraq.
In Moscow, the Russian government denied that its forces were involved in removing weapons from Iraq, dismissing the claims as "far-fetched and ridiculous."
"I can state officially that the Russian Defense Ministry and its structural divisions could not have been involved in the disappearance of the explosives, because Russian servicemen were not in Iraq long before the beginning of the American-British operation in that country," Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Vyacheslav Sedov told Interfax news agency.
Bush administration officials reacted cautiously to information provided by Mr. Shaw, who said details of the Russian "spetsnaz" forces' involvement in a program of document-shredding and weapons dispersal came from two European intelligence services.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters aboard Air Force One that he was unaware of the information in The Times report.
"I know that there is some new information that has come to light in the last couple of days," Mr. McClellan said, noting that another news report said the amount of high-explosive materials may have been less than 377 tons, as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) claims.
Asked about foreign intelligence reports of Russian troops moving Iraq's weapons to Syria, Mr. McClellan said, "I have no information that points in that direction."
National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said in a interview on the Laura Ingraham radio show that she also was not aware of the information about Russian troops relocating Saddam's weapons to Syria, Lebanon and possibly Iran.
Defense officials said the information has been closely held within the Pentagon because Mr. Shaw, a deputy undersecretary of defense of international technology security, has been working with the Pentagon inspector general in investigating the Russian role in the weapons transfers.
Information in the inspector general office is not widely shared within the policy and intelligence communities.
The Pentagon is still investigating the fate of the explosives and possible Russian involvement.
Officials said numerous intelligence reports in the past two years indicate Saddam used trucks and aircraft to withdraw weapons from Iraq before March 2003. However, the new information indicates that Russian troops were directly involved in assisting the Iraqi military and intelligence services to secure and move the arms.
Documents reviewed by one defense official include specific Russian military unit itineraries for the truck convoys.
The arms that were taken out of the country included missile parts, nuclear-related equipment, tank and aircraft parts, and chemicals used in making poison gas weapons, the official said.
Regarding the satellite photographs, defense officials said the photographs bolster the information obtained from the European intelligence services on the Russian arms-removal program.
The Russian special forces troops were housed at a computer center near the Russian Embassy in Baghdad and left the country shortly before the U.S. invasion was launched March 20, 2003.
Harold Hough, a satellite photographic specialist, said commercial satellite images taken shortly before U.S. forces reached Baghdad revealed Russian transport aircraft at Baghdad's international airport near a warehouse.
"My thought was that the Russians were eager to get something out of Iraq quickly," Mr. Hough said. "But it is quite possible that the aircraft was used to transport the Russian forces."
Also yesterday, the IAEA said it warned the United States about the vulnerability of explosives stored at Al-Qaqaa after Iraq's Tuwaitha nuclear complex was looted.
"After we heard reports of looting at the Tuwaitha site in April 2003, the agency's chief Iraq inspectors alerted American officials that we were concerned about the security of the high explosives stored at Al-Qaqaa," IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told the Associated Press.
She did not say which officials were notified or exactly when. |
More coming as we speak.
Bottom line: Saddam saw the handwriting on the wall, probably long before the Iraq war, and moved his WMDs first, then finished up with the lesser grade munitions, like these.
Watch for what the NYTimes DON'T tell you.
From their piece noted in the previous email:
| Quote: | The Minneapolis television crew was with an Army unit that was camped near Al Qaqaa, members of the crew said. The reporter and cameraman said that although they were not told specifically that they were being taken to Al Qaqaa by the military, their videotape matches pictures of the site taken by United Nations weapons inspectors, according to weapons experts.
"The photographs are consistent with what I know of Al Qaqaa," said David A. Kay, a former American official who led the recent hunt in Iraq for unconventional weapons and visited the vast site. "The damning thing is the seals. The Iraqis didn't use seals on anything. So I'm absolutely sure that's an I.A.E.A. seal."
One weapons expert said the videotape and some of the agency's photographs of the HMX stockpiles "were such good matches it looked like they were taken by the same camera on the same day." |
Now by what chance would the photographer pick the exact same shooting spot, same lens, same angle etc.? Could it be that they ARE the same pictures? Remember: CBS had a hand in this story, and we know how ABC has been directed to handle anti-Bush stories.
_________________
Everytime he had a choice, Kerry chose to side with communists rather than the United States. |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| That video crew DID NOT cut through any IAEA seal. One was shown, but it was NOT cut through. They avoided it. No one can say that there was anything in it. |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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You nailed this, George.
Nice one!  |
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God and Country
PO3
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 274
Location: God's country
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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A Major with pentagon spokesman said he was there and moved over 200 tons of the explosives. It is on Fox now. Fxxk traitor Kerry.
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George Danenhauer
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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drjohn wrote
That video crew DID NOT cut through any IAEA seal. One was shown, but it was NOT cut through. They avoided it. No one can say that there was anything in it.
It is not even clear that the video showed an IAEA seal (other than the bright shiny stock photo of an IAEA seal with purple paint no taken on April 18th). I would argue that the weathered seal shown on an actual bunker door is more likely an UNMOVIC seal.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3741.html?cat=1
Note that the bright metal, painted purple photo used in this story is a stock photo of an “IAEA seal” … it is not indicated as a photo taken on April 18th, 2003.
Photo of a sealed bunker from April 18th (note that this is a weathered seal – the letters IAEA cannot be read and may not be there, in my mind quite likely weathered more than 3 months – fresh IAEA seals in January 2003 would not look like this).
Remember IAEA is merely the “nuclear” side of the Iraqi weapons inspections and while the only IAEA seals at Al Qaqaa were reportedly for the missing explosives, other items at Al Qaqaa were "tagged" (sealed?) by UNMOVIC. The photo of a locked and sealed bunker door may be a photo of an UNMOVIC seal, rather than an IAEA seal (I cannot locate a photo of a UNMOVIC seal – I see no reason it would not be similar to the IAEA seal, but with different lettering and, judging by the weathering of the seal seen April 18th, my guess is that this must be an older UNMOVIC seal placed on chemicals, missiles, etc. in a bunker.
Here is a list of the various UNMOVIC and IAEA items stored at Al Qaqaa
IRAQ WEAPONS INSPECTIONS DATABASE
Site
Name of Site Al Qa Qaa
Company Name Al Qa Qaa Government Establishment
Public/Private Public
Type of Facility Missiles and nuclear
Location Yousefiya
Region Babil
Proprietor Military Industrialization Corporation (MIC)
Comments Explosive filling of long-range missile warheads
Inspections of site
Date 30 Nov 2002
Team IAEA
Inspectors 2
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Repair air samplers
Date 09 Dec 2002
Team IAEA
Inspectors 6
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity since 1998
Date 14 Dec 2002
Team Chemical
Inspectors 22
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity since 1998
Date 15 Dec 2002
Team Chemical
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity since 1998
Date 16 Dec 2002
Team IAEA
Inspectors 9
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 21 Dec 2002
Team Missile
Inspectors 15
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 25 Dec 2002
Team IAEA
Inspectors 6
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify dual-use equipment
Date 28 Dec 2002
Team Missile
Inspectors 9
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 11 Jan 2003
Team IAEA
Inspectors 4
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 14 Jan 2003
Team IAEA
Inspectors 5
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 18 Jan 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors 22
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Re-baseline
Date 19 Jan 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors 16
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Re-baseline
Date 20 Jan 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors 4
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Re-baseline
Date 20 Jan 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors Not known
Date 21 Jan 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors 24
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Re-baseline
Date 23 Jan 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors 25
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Re-baseline
Date 24 Jan 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors 5
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Re-baseline
Date 25 Jan 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors 24
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Re-baseline
Date 02 Feb 2003
Team Multidisciplinary
Inspectors 6
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 03 Feb 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors 6
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 04 Feb 2003
Team IAEA
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 18 Feb 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors 2
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 24 Feb 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors 2
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Tag container
Date 25 Feb 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors 6
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify declaration
Date 01 Mar 2003
Team IAEA
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Verify activity
Date 05 Mar 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Check seals
Date 08 Mar 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Check tags
Date 08 Mar 2003
Team Chemical
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Tag equipment
Date 09 Mar 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Tag warheads
Date 15 Mar 2003
Team Missile
Inspectors Not known
Declared Status Declared
Purpose of Inspection Tag missiles
http://www.vertic.org/onlinedatabase/unmovic/dsp_Site.cfm?siteID=9 |
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rb325th
Admiral
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 1334
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Moderator Note: Duplicate Topic. Please copy your comments to the following thread already discussing this issue. http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15015
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