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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Once again, a really good , thoughtful, insightful post.
You’ve convinced me!
No wait that would destroy some of your underlying premises about people with inflexible thought. Mustn’t change beliefs to keep the space-time continium intact…Must remain inflexible….
Kidding aside, sincerely, a very good post. I appreciate it.
I’d like to suggest a few things, people can believe different things and yet both have perceptions accurate to their understanding.
I think you’ve made a number of assumptions and are now acting as though Liberals are trying to allow “the terrorists” to annex the Sudetenland.
What you may have called good foreign policy (aka. Advantageous to American business, geopolictical military strength), may also be viewed through other filters.
God were it true that you were right about this! All the alleged dirty dealing Cheney Halliburton contracts would have been well intentioned! It wouldn’t be about oil contracts for Bush's associates! I would have been all about Sadam, and the …WMD… no not that err Al Quaeda threat. It would have been great that the adminstration got it’s way. All the innocent deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan wouldn’t have been in vain.
It wouldn’t be about this:
http://www.shianews.com/hi/middle_east/news_id/0000758.php
Or this:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/
Or the the failure of those who planned this war:
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/mission_unaccomplished.php
Prison abuse would have been justified.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/
It would all be for the underlying good of having protected America from an even greater disaster or threat. Well ironically, I suppose I hope you are right.
The battle for hearts and minds in America would be due to this failure of Liberal pacifists. Liberals weakened to quote the overused catchphrase "resolve" of the president. Did the war not occur? Sure it did! Mission accomplished! Terrorist threat gone (from Iraq at least) or kind of ... well you know what I mean.
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I've learned from years of experience in verbal battle |
Why battle? Why not discussion? Why not try to learn from each other? Why is it always a war? Why not jointly try to find a political solution to suite both of you? Do you not have some common interests and common ground? Do both not claim to love our nation and it's citizenry?
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with democrats and liberals that no one can change their minds or convince them of the truth because most of them have their minds already made up. The sad part is that most of them claim to be 'open' minded, yet when fact after fact is presented to them, they stick to the same old party, parroted line.
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Well everything changes eventually, does it not?
You know if it feels like you are banging your head against the wall. Maybe the wall isn’t the problem. Maybe you should look at your own thinking.
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I believe that you cannot win the war on terrorism. You cannot track down the last terrorist and shoot em dead in the street. Most war efforts to do this, in fact do the EXACT opposite. It just irks the children of their dead parents, and they make promising in their hearts to strike back at America by any means necessary.
The best you can do is eliminate the circumstances and reasons for them to seek such drastic actions in the first place.
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That's the problem with not only you, but most liberals, democrats and pacificists. The one thing that we cannot get across to them is that things changed dramatically after 9/11.
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And things didn’t change after the first attempt on the WTC? Or after the bombing of the US embassy in Africa? Why all the sudden are things SO different? Why are Conservatives so fond of saying that?
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These terrorists have been at war with the US for almost twenty years, yet our government and our citizens ignored the signs, and just did not realize this.
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And now that they do, it’s time to wage wars? For 20 years we have certainly minimized casualities. Now those stats are climbing, and due to get worse.
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These terrorists are out for one thing, and one thing only, and that is to kill as many Americans as they can. One of the higher ranking leaders under Osama Bin Laden has stated publically that al Qaeda will consider their war on the US a success when they have killed at least four million Americans. Now think about it, if they manage to kill that many Americans, even on a scale of ten to one, wounded to dead ratio, that means that if they manage to kill four million Americans, then forty million Americans will be injured, maimed and wounded. More than likely, it would be far greater than a ten to one ratio.
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First of all who are these terrorists? It’s a very important question. As in I don’t want to go around on some sort of witch hunt exterminating suspected enemies based on faulty data or paranoia.
This much I am pretty sure of: a group of less than two dozen individuals crashed planes into buildings. Mostly they were Saudi, and for this we’ve gone to war with entire countries Afghanistan.
Given the fact that so few hornets can sting so badly, why do we have to go kicking the nest? Why not be a little more surgical and intelligent about all this? Rather than uniting Arabs who perceive the US as an aggressive, torturing, invading force? Actually our intelligence about Al Qaeda was not that bad. We just failed to act.
How do you think Laden will go about exterminating those Americans? Will he draw them into unnecessary wars, were they are perceive not as “liberators” as the American press would have you believe, but as invaders. Won’t this draw other angry Arabs into the Al Qaeda ranks as they seek revenge for neighboring loved ones, or those that have been harmed by occupying forces?
Will these people not flock to the previously more isolated terrorist member organizations?
You seem to presume to know how I would feel if my loved ones were killed by terrorists. Now why not imagine how the “enemy” will react?
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The problem is that most liberals, democrats and pacificists are so centered on the idea of trying to get the entire nation to 'understand' why these people are doing what they are doing. That the reasons why these terrorists want to kill us is because the US has either directly or indirectly caused these terrorists to be the way they are, and therefore our fault. It's the 'Blame America First' thinking, and that if the US will only admit our wrongdoings, and correct all these bad things we do, then these terrorists will stop killing Americans. |
I’ve heard other Conservatives parrot the same thought. Look… In any given situation there are ALTERNATIVES. I DO blame the leaders! They are supposed to make good decisions for America and I believe they have failed most of it’s citizenry. A smart warrior is one who disables his/her opponent prior to their attacking.
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It is this appeasement attitude that is not only harming our nation, and our troops abroad, but is helping these terrorists to continue doing what they do. It is that same attitude that caused the US not to win in Vietnam, caused the North Vietnamese to continue the war past 1968, not sue for peace, and caused thousands upon thousands of Americans to die needlessly in Vietnam.
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How do you think it is harming the troops abroad? By calling for body armor for the troops? What is this "appeasement" you speak of? I don't think there has been any appeasement in US foreign policy of late, quite the contrary.
So your solution in Vietnam would have been to continued the war spilling more American blood? The US still has tremendous power throughout the world, it is the most dominate military force on the planet. Did we need to “win” in Vietnam? Was our country and it's youth really so much worse off?
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These liberals, democrats and pacificists have never learned anything from history. They rewrite history to fit their own ideas, and dismiss any lessons learned from history that does not fit their ideas.
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Objection your honor. The witness is stating opinion.
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They want us to 'understand' these terrorists, yet they themselves either do not do that in which they want us to do, or they refuse to see several key points about these terrorists, whey they do what they do, and their culture. That is that these people consider anyone that gives into their demands as weak, below them, etc. They do not honor promises made, treaties made, and/or deals made. They only recognize one thing as honorable, and that is the use of force. That is one of the main culture things in the mideast. The use of force is well recognized as a way of life. Anything less is recognized as a weakness in humanity.
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First of all who are these terrorists? It’s a very important question. As in I don’t want to go around on some sort of witch hunt exterminating suspected enemies based on faulty data or paranoia.
This much I am pretty sure of: a group of less than two dozen individuals crashed planes into buildings. Mostly they were Saudi, and for this we’ve gone to war with the countries Afghanistan, and Iraq. Putting civilian populations in harms way, while theoretically eliminating our enemies.
Given the fact that so few hornets can sting so badly, why do we have to go kicking the nest? Why not be a little more surgical about all this? Rather than uniting Arabs who perceive the US as an aggressive, torturing, invading force?
How do you think Laden will go about exterminating those Americans? Will he draw them into unnecessary wars, were they are perceive not as “liberators” as the American press would have you believe, but as invaders. Won’t this draw other angry Arabs into the Al Quaeda ranks as they seek revenge for neighboring loved ones, or those that have been harmed by occupying forces?
Will these people not flock to the previously more isolated terrorist member organizations?
You seem to presume to know how I would feel if my loved ones were killed by terrorists. Now why not imagine how the “enemy” will react?
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The problem is that most liberals, democrats and pacificists are so centered on the idea of trying to get the entire nation to 'understand' why these people are doing what they are doing. That the reasons why these terrorists want to kill us is because the US has either directly or indirectly caused these terrorists to be the way they are, and therefore our fault. It's the 'Blame America First' thinking, and that if the US will only admit our wrongdoings, and correct all these bad things we do, then these terrorists will stop killing Americans. |
I’ve heard other Conservatives parrot the same thought. Look… In any given situation there are ALTERNATIVES. I DO blame the leaders! They are supposed to make good decisions for America and I believe they have failed most of it’s citizenry.
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It is this appeasement attitude that is not only harming our nation, and our troops abroad, but is helping these terrorists to continue doing what they do. It is that same attitude that caused the US not to win in Vietnam, caused the North Vietnamese to continue the war past 1968, not sue for peace, and caused thousands upon thousands of Americans to die needlessly in Vietnam.
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But the end of which prevented untold amounts of Americans from being killed. Was the result so disasterous? Did Communism win?
So your solution would have been to continued the war spilling more American blood? The US still has tremendous power throughout the world, it is the most dominate military force on the planet. Did we need to “win” in Vietnam?
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These liberals, democrats and pacificists have never learned anything from history. They rewrite history to fit their own ideas, and dismiss any lessons learned from history that does not fit their ideas.
They want us to 'understand' these terrorists, yet they themselves either do not do that in which they want us to do, or they refuse to see several key points about these terrorists, whey they do what they do, and their culture. That is that these people consider anyone that gives into their demands as weak, below them, etc. They do not honor promises made, treaties made, and/or deals made. They only recognize one thing as honorable, and that is the use of force. That is one of the main culture things in the mideast. The use of force is well recognized as a way of life. Anything less is recognized as a weakness in humanity.
You cannot reason with these people, you cannot make deals with them, you cannot make treaties with them, etc. Back to the history thing, one of the glaring lessons of history is that appeasement has never, ever worked with people who are evil, and dedicated to the deaths of others, or to those who war against other people or nations. Just like the idea of socialism / communism / facistism, there are many in our nation that know that these have never worked in any nation that they've ever been tried in, yet they honestly believe that because they know where all the mistakes have been, that they are the ones to make these work, because they feel that they are the right people that can make these work.
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Sorry, but this seems to be is an extremely facile opinionated understanding of the Middle East. I leave this history proffesor's blog as excellent reference:
http://www.juancole.com/
Well I believe it is an assumption that a group people can be inherently evil, as well as the fact you can’t reason with them. Misled maybe, but isn’t it a mistake to suggest that all America think the same and are therefore an enemy? I think people are basically rather simple. People don’t act unmotivated unless they are crazy. You suggested I would “open my eyes” if my loved ones were killed. You presented a motivating experience for that to happen. So my beliefs can change! Well one can always hope can’t one?
I still believe that terrorism as it existed prior to the "war on terrorism" was isolated. Personally, I wasn’t advocating “appeasement” either, as I believe to understand your extremely vague usage of the term.
So how can you make the assumption that “these” people cannot be reasoned with, cannot be dealt with?
Because Hitler lied to the British prime minister?
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The problem with the above is that there are many people in this world that do not think like these people do, will never think like these people do, and in fact think that the people that are pacificists, liberals, appeasers, are weak, and inferior to them. They do not respect these people, and in fact, they are counting on people like these, because the more people like these, the easier it is for them to accomplish their goals. I'm not trying to pick on the French, but the majority of the citizens of France are like our nations liberals. They believe in peace, consider themselves far superior to anyone else in the world, are pacificists, clear thinkers, intellectuals, more cultured, worldly, appeasement thinkers, etc. Yet, in two world wars, this attitude by the French did not stop the Germans from coming in and taking over France.
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Are you suggesting that the French should have preemptively attacked Germany?
And you’ll notice Hitler didn’t destroy Paris, because it is a cultural gem. Hitler did have a motivation: power, greed. Albeit an evil ones, but nonetheless potentially predictable.
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None of the deals, treaties, promises made by the French and Germans were ever kept by the Germans. In fact, Hitler and the Germans believed that because of the French peoples attitudes mentioned above, that they were weaker, inferior, far beneath them, and not respected by their enemies.
That is how these terrorists view Americans. They have said that they are counting on that point of view in our nation. They fully expected the US to cower and give in when attacked. They expected us to run like we did in Vietnam, Somulia, Lebanon, and in other places. They expected us to do exactly what Spain did when we were attacked. They still think this way. They want the liberals, clear thinkers, intellectuals, independent thinkers, appeasers, pacificists, democrats in this nation to win. They want the partisan political battles over this to continue in our nation. They see that it is dividing our nation, and that helps them.
These terrorists would rather face a nation of what they consider to be weak and inferior people than a nation of citizens determined to fight them. Liberals and pacificists are so much easier to kill than those who stand up for themselves, their fellow citizens, their nation. Now, I am not calling these people anti-patriotic or questioning their patriotism, or saying that they do not care about the above things.
But, the main idea that cannot be gotten across to these liberals, pacificists, appeasers, etc., is that these terrorists do not care if you are a liberal, a conservative, a democrat, a republican, a greenie, an independent, a budhist, catholic, protestant, baptist, hindu, atheist, or whatever. All they care about is that you are an American, and they want to kill you. They want to kill not only you, but your family, your mother, father, brother(s), sister(s), children, grandchildren, relatives, friends, co-workers, etc.
The only thing that works with these people is to conduct war against them. Give them the same force and terror that they give us. And Yes, we must hunt them down one by one, and kill each and every one of them. If their families, sisters, brothers join them, then they must die also. The US has no choice on this one, we must fight those that want to kill us, that want to destroy our nation, our government, our way of life, our economy, our ideals, etc.
I know that you and those like you are against war, against violence, for peace, etc. And you are just not understanding the plain fact that nothing else but force and violence works against these terrorists. Your way will never work. No one in their right minds ever wants war. No one in our nation wants to go die for their country. The majority of the hawks and people in our military want peace, just like you do. They just understand what you do not, or refuse to understand.
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All I understand is that you have an opinion. Some people in the world want to kill Americans. There are people in the UK that want to kill Americans. Doesn't mean you have to wage war on them. There is huge jump in your logic.
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You said,
"You cannot track down the last terrorist and shoot em dead in the street."
I say to you that after the events and attacks conducted on the US, US military, US property, ships, embassies and after 9/11, we cannot afford not to! We cannot afford to wait until these terrorists have attacked us again to act. We cannot treat these terrorists as criminals, and look at this as criminal acts to be handled within our judical system. If we do that, then that figure of four million Americans dead will happen.
I told you this is a new world after 9/11, and it is. This is a war against those that want to kill us, destroy our nation, etc. We as a nation must conduct war against these madmen and fanatics. Yes, we must go and do exactly what they want to do to us, we must kill each and every one of them. And if it takes killing their friends, families, co-workers, etc. to accomplish this, then so be it! As a nation, and a people, we are at war for our very survival. We cannot afford to fail.
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Sorry, don't buy it. I respectfully think that you are just wrong about this.
Cut the snake off by the tail and it will grow back with two more heads. We will fail if we use a blunt object to take out a minority of enemies. It will only beget us more dangerous and angrier cunning foes.
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It matters not if their were connections between any of these terrorists groups and sovereign nations like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and others. It matters not if they met, didn't meet, jointly planned or did not jointly plan attacks on America. It matters not if they had or didn't have WMD. All that is just minor disagreements, and something to argue about, and to use to attack your enemies on the other political side of the fence.
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It mattters to the Middle East, and therefore to Israel, an ally.
Ergo, it matters.
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What matters is that we must take this war to those that want to attack us. The day is coming when these terrorists groups will use either chemical, biological, dirty bomb, or God forbid, nuclear bombs against another nation on this world, and I sure hope that it is not ours. We must take out these people before they take us out.
Now, if you cannot understand and agree with all the above, and it doesn't change your mind, then the following statement that I made up over two months ago directly pertains to you, and by that, you have my pity, and I hope that when the terrorists attack again, someone you know or love is killed or wounded, so that you will finally see the truth of this issue, and open your eyes to the seriousness of this war.
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Looking at what has happened prior to the war:
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From an article talking about Farenheit 911:
Speaking personally, none of the data in this film surprised me. Having spent every day of the last three years working to expose as many Americans as possible to the truth of the man they call President, Mr. Moore was unlikely to explode any shells across my bow. The connections between Bush, the Saudis, the Carlyle Group and the 9/11 attacks were there. The connections between Cheney and Halliburton were there. The connections between Enron, Unocal, natural gas pipelines, the war in Afghanistan and a little-known country called Turkmenistan were there. I enjoyed the fact that Moore showed off unredacted copies of Bush's military service record, allowing us to see the parts of those documents which had been blacked out. I found no fact, no assertion in this film to question or doubt. I have done my homework, and as was made painfully clear, Michael Moore did his.
Most Americans don't know about this stuff, and seeing it fully documented and meticulously researched on the big screen will be, to say the least, revelatory. Yes, Virginia, there are billions of dollars to be made off this Iraq war for Bush's friends. The second door on the left is the recruiting office. Sign on the line that is dotted, and be the first kid on your block to die for the benefit of Carlyle's stock options. Be sure to save your pennies beforehand, however, because the Army will dock your pay for the days you are dead. It's policy, you see.
Mr. Moore put two daggers into me with this film, the first of which had to do with American soldiers. Trooper after trooper spoke frankly for Moore's camera, condemning both the war and the people who thrust them into it. Several scenes graphically explained what happens to a soldier's body when it is caught in an explosion. The result is ruinous, and the cries of the wounded and the dying will ring in my ears forever.
The most wrenching scenes in the film center around a woman named Lila, who loves her country, loves her flag, and above all loves her children whom she actively persuaded to join the armed services. We learn that Lila has a son in Iraq, and because of that, she despises those protesting the invasion. We find out later that her son was killed in Karbala on April 2nd, when his Blackhawk helicopter was shot down. We watch her read her son's last letter home, in which he rages against Bush and the war. We last see Lila standing at the gates of the White House, tears boiling from her eyes, as she discovers her true enemy, the one who took her baby from her.
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You suggested that loved ones dying in a terrorist attack would open MY eyes. Look what opened Lila’s eyes.
A great number of respectable informed people believe the war is not justified, and many who don't believe that, remain in the cocoon of Newsmax, and Faux news. I believe the wars have exacerbated the dangers that the US now faces from terrorism, not helped it. |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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After a long, rambling, waste of computer bytes, Jeremy Eaton concludes:
"I believe the wars have exacerbated the dangers that the US now faces from terrorism, not helped it."
This is a variation on the classic leftwing line:
"Now that we've made the angry terrorists (who want to commit suicide to kill us) angrier, they're going to REALLY kill us. We just have to be NICER in the way we deal with the terrorists."
Mr. Eaton,
I have nothing but utter contempt for brain malfunctions like this. For your convenience, because I'm a Nice Guy, I have highlighted the brain malfunctions that most closely resemble the ones you made on the topic of dealing with terrorism:
Faulty Cause and Effect
Example: On the basis of my observations, wearing huge trousers makes you fat.
Judging Things Without Comparison to Alternatives
Example: I don't invest in US Treasury bills. There's too much risk.
Faulty Pattern Recognition
Example: His last six wives were murdered mysteriously. I hope to be wife number seven.
Ignoring all Anecdotal Evidence
Example: I always get hives immediately after eating strawberries. But withouta scientifically controlled experiment, it's not reliable data. So I continue to eat strawberries every day, since I can't tell if they cause hives.
Following the Advice of Known Idiots
Example: Uncle Billy says pork makes you smarter. That's good enough for me!
Why, oh why, Dear God, are leftists unable to parse simple principles of logic?
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Someone let me know when jeremy there posts some original thought, instead of doing a copy/paste job of his favorite DU propaganda links.
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Jeremy doesn't get it, and never will understand that appeasement and negoatiations with these cowardly terrorists will never work. He is of that ilk that believe that you can always reason and deal with madmen and crazy people. He truly is totally clueless when it comes to this situation, and still believes all those DNC and DU lies about our actions have just made more terrorists, and/or made more people around the world hate us. He clearly belongs in the group of people that believe in finding excuses for everybody else in the world that hate us, finding blame on our own nation for the actions of others in the world, and a part of the "Hate America First" crowd.
I feel sorry for him, and yet at the same time feel pity for one who is so blind, deaf and dumb that he cannot think for himself, and has to rely on the talking points and lies of others. Everything he says is cut and pasted damn near word for word from the DNC and DU sites, as he continues to parrot. Someone on the radio yesterday said that the word 'Liberal' really stands for 'stupid logic', and now after reading what Jeremy wrote in response from my post, I firmly believe.
See Jeremy, I do not need to use cut and paste in my posts, I do not have to rely on other liberal and democratic websites and pundits to make up my posts. I am able to think for myself, and like other people that truly care about this nation, which are composed of democrats and republicans alike, am able to see this war on terrorism for what it is. It is a battle for this nation's very survival. It is a battle of them against us, the citizens of this nation.
But for people like Jeremy, the terrorists are not the enemy, they are just misunderstood, they are freedom fighters, they are insurgents, they are just members of an army that are fighting the only way they know, or that the USA has forced them to want to kill and maim Americans because of our actions, and deeds of the past. And of course, all those can be directly blamed on Conservatives and Republicans currently in power in Washington, D.C., and in power in the past. Never on any actions or deeds of Liberals and Democrats.
To Jeremy and others like him, the enemy is never the terrorists, the madmen who want to kill Americans, who want to destroy our nation, our government, our economy, our way of life, our friends, families, co-workers, loved ones, etc...
To Jeremy, the enemy is you and me. To Jeremy the enemy is any republican, democrat, liberal or conservative that doesn't act, think, and believe like he does. Like many others in this nation, their hate of President Bush, the Bush Administration, and all Conservatives has so deeply clouded his ability to think for himself, and to see things as they really are. So he has to depend on the ideas of others to tell him how to and what to think about this terrorist situation.
God help stupid people, cause they don't have enough sense to be able to think for themselves. What a pity!
Re: Terrorists - It's Way Past Time For The Gloves To Be Taken Off!
FRIGGIN WAR WOOF!
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"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I have this theory...
Men who grow up having managed to NEVER be in a knock-down, drag-out fight, where the loser gets a serious beating, tend to grow up to be Democrats, because life has taught them, falsely, that you can talk your way out of anything.
Men who grow up and HAVE been in that kind of a fight have an understanding of the nature of man and the world that the protected never will, because they can't.
Now sure, that's an overgeneralization, but the fact is, these Dim-ocrats really don't seem to understand that you can't talk your way out of EVERYTHING. Certainly, if it's possible to settle things without fighting, even if you have to lose a little face in the process, is preferable.
But sometimes you really just have to kick the bastard in the balls, punch him in the throat and smash your knee into his mouth, knocking out half his teeth.
Not because you WANT to, but because if you DON'T, it's going to be YOUR teeth all over the pavement.
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Damn straight nakona! What the majority of liberals, democrats, bleeding hearts, and anti-war types don't realize is that most people who were in wars, hate war and the thought of war. They hate the idea of brave men and women going into harms way, and dying and being injuried because of war, but they will be the first ones to stand up and fight if that is what needs to be. That's why they just don't understand our war on terrorism, and never will. Now is the time to fight those that whose only goal is to kill as many Americans as they can!
FRIGGIN WAR WOOF!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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Marine4life
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 591
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Lets see, what needs to be done? There is one sure way to win and stop terrorism completely, does Hiroshima ring a bell? Now we aren't going to do that so the next thing is Tomahawks, Hellfires, Zuni's, Side winders, Smart bombs. As you can see I am not exactly politically correct so I will just give my 2 cents. The only way to end this is complete inilation of the Arab world or beat them into submission. We are doing the lesser of the options. We are doing that with the DNC making traitorous remarks, acusations, and empowering the enemy to continue to fight in the hopes that the DNC will break the will of America. Thank God that most of our soldiers are Republican and already know what Kerry and Co. are up to. You see we have seen this DNC tactic to destroy our Nation before, it's not new, it is still fresh in the minds of many, it was called VIETNAM. In the initial remarks from the left they, Kennedy, Kerry and a few others said that this would be another Vietnam and by God they are trying to make it just that. I am with ya Dog, the gloves are off and I'm ready to roll. If I could convince the Corps to take an aging vet back on active duty I would be there already. In the mean time I am locked and loaded on the home front in case any get by our troops, I got their back. Semper Fi.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes. |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| nakona wrote: | I have this theory...
Men who grow up having managed to NEVER be in a knock-down, drag-out fight, where the loser gets a serious beating, tend to grow up to be Democrats, because life has taught them, falsely, that you can talk your way out of anything.
Men who grow up and HAVE been in that kind of a fight have an understanding of the nature of man and the world that the protected never will, because they can't.
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On the contrary Nakona, I have taken on more than several attackers at the same time. I would have preferred to not been in the situation in the first place. Maybe it was my bravado that got me in trouble. It seems once again, I am the lone defender of any unpopular viewpoint.
Case in point.
War Dog, a serious degression from your first post. I DO provide links, and supplementary information, because although I think for myself, I am attached to reality. I use FACTS and INFORMATION to make my decisions.
Whenever possible I try to BACK UP what I say with reference. So save your pity for those that are arbitrarily coming to conclusions based on feeling, bias, and blind allegiance. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Case in point.
War Dog, a serious degression from your first post. I DO provide links, and supplementary information, because although I think for myself, I am attached to reality. I use FACTS and INFORMATION to make my decisions.
Whenever possible I try to BACK UP what I say with reference. So save your pity for those that are arbitrarily coming to conclusions based on feeling, bias, and blind allegiance. |
Spoken like a true liberal! By the way, I never said that you did not or never provided links to backup what you said in your posts! And the pity thing, it was applied correctly!
It's Way Past Time For The Gloves To Come Off!
FRIGGIN WAR WOOF!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| War Dog wrote: | | Quote: | Case in point.
War Dog, a serious degression from your first post. I DO provide links, and supplementary information, because although I think for myself, I am attached to reality. I use FACTS and INFORMATION to make my decisions.
Whenever possible I try to BACK UP what I say with reference. So save your pity for those that are arbitrarily coming to conclusions based on feeling, bias, and blind allegiance. |
Spoken like a true liberal! By the way, I never said that you did not or never provided links to backup what you said in your posts! And the pity thing, it was applied correctly!
It's Way Past Time For The Gloves To Come Off!
FRIGGIN WAR WOOF! |
Right and the distinction is that I AM making decisions based a certain amount of information. I am not making any abstract conclusions. It seems you've lost your patience with me, but I asked you some sincere questions. You've chosen to give up and label me as "stupid".
You are wrong about one thing. I do not see you as the enemy, not at all. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Admin note:
Either get the thread back on topic, or it will be locked.
Thanks |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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War Dog, Nakona, Marine; Until Jeremy opens his eyes and sees past the simplistic coverages presented by the new media, you'll never change his point of view. You see, all he perceives is the immediate; the ground forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and not the whole campaign.
Jeremy, you have missed it. You cite nothing has changed since 9/11 with the exception of the battles involving our armed forces and that that action will never accomplish the goals. Taking that very narrow vision, you are correct, it would be a seesaw of attack and retributinon.
However, as in any war, it is the campaign, not just one battle that will determine the victor. Now for just a few facts:
Between 1992 and 2000 your view would hold true for the U.S. policy was one of reaction (attack and retribution). There were no concerted, cohesive goals, roles or policies to address terrorism as a whole threat - only reactions to each individual faction.
In 2001 everything changed. The towers went down and with them the unpardonable acceptance that taking out just the attacking faction would stop the terror.
In 2001 we had a leader come forward who recognized that the United States is the strongest nation in the world and frankly, we don't have to simply sit back and wring our hands when the attacks occur. This leader came right out and said the United States would no longer sit idly by while other nations secretly supported these factions. I do believe he said it best when he said "you're either for us, or against us".
This leader that I mention put the world on notice; no more backroom support to terrorist organizations. No more tacit approval of their actions. With a simple speach lasting less than 10 minutes PRESIDENT BUSH set forth the campaign that will ultimately make the world a safer place.
Okay, open your eyes, here it comes...
1) We will take the battle to them. We will hunt them down and bring them to justice. [This is the most common portion of the campaign, and the one given the most press coverage because its "exciting"]
As with any campaign there are multiple fronts so...
2) We will search out, identify and stop the financial support of these terrorists where ever they may appear. [Take a walk through a search engine, I doubt you'll find many front page stories regarding this front but its there and its working. ]
3) We will identify those nations that support terrorism. [I personally love this one since it has several nations shaking in their boots. We're now seeing significant movement on this front - there is no loyalty with the immoral.]
So Jeremy, when you start babbling about how all we're doing is stirring more hatred, take another look. Libya has folded, Syria is ducking inside its shell, Iran is blustering yet the writing is on the wall, Saudi Arabia has taken its rose colored glasses off and yes, the purse strings of Iraq are now thoroughly tied, locked and secure.
Will America ever be loved by all? Not a chance. But America, at least during this administration, WILL be respected.
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Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Eaton wrote: |
On the contrary Nakona, I have taken on more than several attackers at the same time. |
Frankly, Jeremey... I don't believe you.
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13F20P |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Nakona wish you'd apply that skepticism to what you believe about Al Qaeda. I most certainly got badly hurt in that incident.
Re:
Libya
Heard they were up to their old tricks, and want to start a nuclear program!
Iran:
Same thing.
Syria:
Check out the population. What are they up to now?
Sorry, I'd provide some links for all this information, but apparently that represents unoriginal thought. |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Eaton wrote: | ...snip...
Re:
Libya
Heard they were up to their old tricks, and want to start a nuclear program!
Iran:
Same thing.
Syria:
Check out the population. What are they up to now?
Sorry, I'd provide some links for all this information, but apparently that represents unoriginal thought. |
Strike three pal.
Libya: US to resume diplomatic relations. (Can you spell on-site, covert humint?) ref: http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=97723632&p=977z4z64
Syria: Policy statement echo's Washington plan. ref: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-07/01/content_1558836.htm
Iran: UN inspects sites. (Note, this had not occurred until we took action in Iraq.) ref: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3848417.stm
Please notice that I did cite source info for these and I did try to mix the sources so as to not reflect a bias in the reporting. You'll also notice these sources are mainstream and CURRENT news, not archival. |
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