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rbshirley
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Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JN173 wrote:
Since Kerry confirmed in his Senate sub-committee statement he believed
that the "meaning of free fire zones {sic was} shooting anything that moves"
I was wondering if we could get some comment from the Swift Boat Vets
as to what were their official ROE concerning "free fire zones"?


As a Swift OinC, they were ingrained in my memory. As part of our training
before deploying to Vietnam, and as part of the standing briefings prior to
each mission or patrol.

As I have stated in other threads, the overriding Rule of Engagement for ALL
military units in Vietnam (and which is the official "Standing ROE" true today)
is that the use of force {weapons} was SANCTIONED (authorized) ONLY under
one of two conditions:

1) That the unit was in IMMEDIATE DANGER from a defined source

2) In the performance of the unit's assigned and AUTHORIZED MISSION

With regard to "Free Fire Zones" versus "Non-Free fire Zones."

In "Non-Free Fire Zones" specific authorization from the Corps Command
was REQUIRED before any force (weapons use) could be undertaken even
within the limits of EITHER of the above two criteria.

In "Free Fire Zones" specific authorization from the Corps Command was
not necessary, but the above two critria were still REQUIRED to be met
before the use of weapons was authorized.

Swifts were under two additional stringent ROE criteria:

a) "Immediate danger" was intrepreted to mean "fired upon first"

b) Even if a land unit had permission to use force, the Swift was prevented
from providing "Indirect Fire Support" to that unit unless specific permission
was obtained from the Corps Command. Even in a "Free Fire Zone"

Were these ROEs "enforced" by the Corps Command Headquarters?

Absolutely. And additionally by peer pressure from others in our units.

Did these rules cause us problems? Did we have to walk a fine line between
agressive prosecution of our mission, compliance with the ROE's, humanity
to the Vietnamese population, and the possibility/probability of punctures
to our and others tender bodies?

Did I REALLY mean that in a "Non-free Fire Zone" you STILL had to have
SPECIFIC permission from Corps Command in order to return hostile fire?

Yes to all of these. According to the ROEs that was what was REQUIRED.

And EVERY sailor and coastie (the above quoted exception PERHAPS noted)
did his utmost to make damn sure that we followed these ROEs in insuring
that non-combatants were protected. Even if it meant harm to us.

As FOX loves to say: "We report. You decide." But we DID comply.

View these two web pages to understand what these ROEs meant in every
day pragmatic terms. And especially listen to the oral narratives of Bob
Bolger and J. D. Wiggans.

Bring a tissue before hearing the audio play back at the top of the first web
page {Hearts and Minds} And get out your "real" Purple Heart criteria for
the audio on the second web page. The Swift Boat sailor that was "out like
a sack of potatoes" in this latter audio never received a GW Special {Purple
Heart} to the best of his OinC's knowledge. Nor did JD or the dust off crew
receive a commendation. They were turned down.


http://pcf45.com/hearts/hearts.html#owasco


http://www.pcf45.com/rules/rules.html


.


Last edited by rbshirley on Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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rbshirley
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Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rbshirley wrote:
The official "Standing ROE" true today


Now that I have your attention concerning ROEs.

Time for a more current and pragmatic message.

............................................... What is wrong with this picture? ...............................................



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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man who should not be commander in chief

By JOHN O'NEILL

In 1971, I debated John Kerry, then a national spokesman for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, for 90 minutes on The Dick Cavett Show. The key issue in that debate was Kerry's claim that American troops were committing war crimes in Vietnam "on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command." Now, as Sen. Kerry emerges as the presumptive Democratic nominee for the presidency, I've chosen to re-enter the fray.

Like Kerry, I served in Vietnam as a Swift Boat commander. Ironically, Kerry and I served much of our time, a full 12 months in my case and a controversial four months in his, commanding the exact same six-man boat, PCF-94, which I took over after he requested early departure. Despite our shared experience, I still believe what I believed 33 years ago -- that Kerry slandered America's military by inventing or repeating grossly exaggerated claims of atrocities and war crimes to advance his own political career as an antiwar activist. His misrepresentations played a significant role in creating the negative and false image of Vietnam vets that has persisted for more than three decades.

Neither I, nor any man I served with, ever committed any atrocity or war crime in Vietnam. The opposite was the truth. Rather than use excessive force, we suffered casualty after casualty because we chose to refrain from firing rather than risk injuring civilians. More than once, I saw friends die in areas we entered with loudspeakers rather than guns. Kerry's accusations then and now were an injustice that struck at the soul of anyone who served there.

During my 1971 televised debate with Kerry, I accused him of lying. I urged him to come forth with affidavits from the soldiers who had claimed to have committed or witnessed atrocities. To date no such affidavits have been filed. Recently, Kerry has attempted to reframe his comments as youthful or "over the top." Yet always there has been a calculated coolness to the way he has sought to destroy the record of our honorable service in the interest of promoting his political ambitions of the moment.

John Kennedy's book, Profiles in Courage, and Dwight Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe inspired generations. Not so Kerry, who has suppressed his book, The New Soldier, prohibiting its reprinting. There is a clear reason for this. The book repeats Kerry's insults to the American military, beginning with its front-cover image of the American flag being carried upside down by a band of bearded renegades in uniform -- a clear slap at the brave Marines in their combat gear who raised our flag at Iwo Jima. Allow me the reprint rights to your book, Kerry, and I will make sure copies of The New Soldier are available in bookstores throughout America.

Vietnam was a long time ago. Why does it matter today? Since the days of the Roman Empire, the concept of military loyalty up and down the chain of command has been indispensable. The commander's loyalty to the troops is the price a commander pays for the loyalty of the troops in return. How can a man be commander in chief who for more than 30 years has accused his "Band of Brothers," as well as himself, of being war criminals? On a practical basis, Kerry's breach of loyalty is a prescription of disaster for our armed forces.

Kerry's recent admissions caused me to realize that I was most likely in Vietnam dodging enemy rockets on the very day he met in Paris with Madame Binh, the representative of the Viet Cong to the Paris Peace Conference. Kerry returned to the United States to become a national spokesman for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a radical fringe of the antiwar movement, an organization set upon propagating the myth of war crimes through demonstrably false assertions. Who was the last American POW to die languishing in a North Vietnamese prison forced to listen to the recorded voice of Kerry disgracing their service by his dishonest testimony before the Senate?

Since 1971, I have refused many offers from Kerry's political opponents to speak out against him. My reluctance to become involved once again in politics is outweighed now by my profound conviction that Kerry is simply not fit to be America's commander in chief. Nobody has recruited me to come forward. My decision is the inevitable result of my own personal beliefs and life experience.

Today, America is engaged in a new war, against the militant Islamist terrorists who attacked us on our own soil. Reasonable people may differ about how best to proceed, but I'm sure of one thing -- Kerry is the wrong man to put in charge.

O'Neill, a Houstonian, served in Coastal Division 11 in 1969-70, winning two Bronze Stars and additional decorations for his service in Vietnam. Reprinted by permission of the Wall Street Journal.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2656327
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On May 4, some 20 representatives of the newly-formed group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth held a press conference in Washington to announce a public letter signed by hundreds of Vietnam veterans questioning Senator John Kerry's fitness to serve as Commander-in-Chief. 15 out of 23 of Kerry's fellow Swift Boat commanders from Coastal Division 11 have signed the letter, as have all officers in Kerry's own chain of command. The veterans' primary grievance is with Kerry's post-war claim that America's military routinely committed atrocities against Vietnamese civilians "with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command." To a man, the Swift boat veterans stated that they had neither witnessed nor participated in war crimes. The veterans also asked Senator Kerry to sign a simple form authorizing the complete release of his military records to the public.

The media response to the press conference -- an event without precedent in American political history -- was disturbing. The Associated Press declined to cover the conference at all despite having a reporter present, saying that it "does not further the anti-Kerry Vietnam veteran story." AP's silence in this matter contrasts sharply with its obsessive reporting on President Bush's National Guard service, typified by articles such as "Dentist Doesn't Remember Treating Bush." Other news organizations opted for the smear instead of the spike. A CBS Evening News report by Byron Pitts characterized the conference as an Administration-controlled event implementing "the same strategy used to go after Georgia Sen. Max Cleland, who lost three limbs in Vietnam." Pitts didn't provide any evidence to support this emotion-tugging claim.

The Swift veterans held a preparation meeting on Monday night at the Comfort Inn where they were staying. I provided display materials from WinterSoldier.com, a web site I manage that researches "war crimes" propaganda within the Vietnam antiwar movement. The initial part of the meeting was a cheerful reunion of old friends, some of whom had not seen each other in over 30 years. Spokesman John O'Neill asked each "Swiftee" to introduce himself and give his reasons for attending. The remarks that followed were very similar to the statements the veterans would give the following morning. At one point the group's chairman, retired Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, rose to his feet. None of us are experts on John Kerry's qualifications for the presidency, Admiral Hoffman suggested, but we can speak with professional authority on his fitness to command. Twenty men nodded in unison, and the term "President" vanished from the discussion in favor of "Commander-in-Chief."

O'Neill then introduced communications specialist Merrie Spaeth, widow of his former law partner, and her assistant. Whatever their sinister associations with the Bush Administration, they were not there to tell the combat veterans what to say -- it is difficult to imagine anyone doing that -- but to provide tips on dealing with the media, and to help organize the event. They fired distracting questions at the veterans to see if they could be drawn off-topic and had them practice addressing the premise of a question as well as the question itself. The veterans picked this up quickly, and then worked to trim their statements to around 90 seconds. At one point, O'Neill -- who friends describe as a moderate Democrat -- mentioned that Kerry operatives had characterized the Swift veterans to reporters as "Republican shills" and "bitter alcoholics." "That's ridiculous," deadpanned one Swiftee, "I'm not bitter." As the laughter died down, O'Neill shot back, "Hey, it's an improvement over being called 'war criminals.'" I passed around my copy of "The New Soldier," Kerry's hard-to-find 1971 chronicle of the Washington protest that made him famous, so the veterans could see his "other band of brothers" throw away their medals and pretend to murder civilians on the steps of the U.S. Capitol. After a late dinner of Chinese take-out and soft drinks, along with a few war stories, the meeting ended.

Tuesday morning at the National Press Club, the Swift boat veterans faced the TV cameras, many for the first time in their lives, and gave searing, heartfelt testimony about the damage John Kerry's false "war crimes" charges had done to their own reputations and to the reputations of all Americans who served in Vietnam. They described their experiences with Kerry under fire, and rebutted his contention that the Swift boat operations had been a badly managed failure. Admiral Hoffman summarized the purpose of the group, saying, "I signed this letter because I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be the Commander-in-Chief of the United States armed forces. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust."

The veterans then fielded questions from reporters. They explained how Swift boats went into combat in groups of three or four, stayed focused on their topics, and refused to be baited by loaded questions. Afterwards, dozens of journalists milled around looking shocked and unhappy while the veterans talked quietly to a few reporters. The Kerry campaign immediately held its own press conference to denounce Kerry's former brothers-in-arms and handed out talking points, which appeared verbatim in many subsequent news reports.

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are eyewitnesses to a critical period in the life of Senator John Kerry, who has made his service in Vietnam the centerpiece of his candidacy as he seeks the world's most powerful job. These men are neither pawns nor shills, and they deserve better than to be ignored and maligned by media organizations increasingly difficult to distinguish from the Kerry campaign itself. Their testimony should be presented fairly, without filters and distortions, so the public can weigh their harsh assessment of Senator Kerry's fitness to command.


----------
Scott Swett
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerry's Own War Over Vietnam

Combat service is usually a campaign plus. But sparring over the Democrat's tour shows this year is different.


VIETNAM WAR VETERANS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2004


By Stephen Braun, Times Staff Writer


A mission upriver in John F. Kerry's war started with a call to arms. "Saddle up, tigers," he would bark to his gunboat crewmen before they headed off on patrol deep into Vietnam's mangrove-choked canals. It was a command and a warning.

Kerry led his men into combat with a gambler's daring that masked a doubter's disillusionment. The remote southern coast of the Mekong Delta became a proving ground for a Navy lieutenant junior grade eager to test his mettle as a leader — and a crash course in failed policy for a Yale graduate skeptical of the war's outcome.

For four months, from the fall of 1968 into the spring of 1969, Kerry, then 26, experienced Vietnam's chaos from both vantages, piloting a succession of machine-gun-armed Swift boats on raids against Vietcong river outposts. His aggressive, unorthodox tactics made admirers of his crewmen, raised eyebrows among fellow officers and commanders, and earned him a Silver Star and a Bronze Star for valor.

He approached Vietnam with ambivalence, but intent on making his mark in wartime — much as had his political role model, President John F. Kennedy. Kerry's passage steeped him with self-confidence and a lasting "sense of what it means to be under fire," he said recently during an interview in Portland, Ore.

"I think I was a good warrior," Kerry said. "I think I knew how to fight. I also think I was smart enough and sensitive enough to see through it, and know what the downsides and the strategy faults were."

Kerry took calculated risks in battle even as his unease grew over the Vietnam War's stalemated strategy and rising death toll. After a final blur of firefights and close calls, a third combat wound allowed him to shorten his one-year tour. Kerry returned to the U.S. to publicly oppose the war and subsequently run for office.

His complicated stance and abrupt exit were emblematic of his layered, opaque character. If Vietnam helped define him as a soldier and a leader, Kerry also went to war displaying traits that have marked his public life. His fierce drive to excel and his knack for cementing lifelong friendships alternated with a cerebral aloofness and a barely sheathed instinct for advancement.

The loyal band of Navy crewmen and gunboat officers who bonded with Kerry 35 years ago now campaign for him, depicting him as a trusted fighter. "He got us psyched up to go out on patrol every day, even though he needed it as much as we did," said Del Sandusky, one of Kerry's gunboat helmsmen.

Other Swift boat officers — Republican sympathizers and veterans bitter over Kerry's post-Vietnam peace activism — pose a darker alternate history. Members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, an anti-Kerry political committee, they are led by retired Rear Adm. Roy F. Hoffmann, a blunt-edged Navy career man who oversaw the hit-and-run river raids Kerry viewed as a costly waste of American lives.

In Vietnam, Hoffmann and other former officers contend, Kerry bucked Navy procedure, staying in country just long enough to prime his political resume. Some question the accuracy of Kerry's recollections and the legitimacy of the first of his three Purple Hearts — a minor wound, they claim, that was not suffered in action.

"He went to Vietnam to build a career," Hoffmann said. "He was a loose cannon while he was there, and he bugged out early."

Yet Hoffmann and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffmann praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes. And while the Purple Heart account remains murky, its award was routine. Navy records show Swift boat crews were frequently raked with slight wounds of uncertain origin — injuries that often earned decorations.

"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer who, like Kerry, was honored for three minor wounds and left the coastal combat zone early. "He played by the same rules we all did."

Since George Washington's day, a candidate's wartime service has almost "always been seen as an advantage," said Alan Brinkley, professor of American history at Columbia University.

That presumption has been swept aside this presidential election year. Even as the Massachusetts senator uses his Vietnam days in media ads and speeches to emphasize his firmness on national security, sparring over his four-month tour shows how even a prized military record can be picked apart during an election.

Kerry went off to war cautiously, analyzing every move that nudged him closer.

Aware that he was eligible for the draft, Kerry explored his uncertainty in a valedictory speech to his 1966 Yale graduating class. "This Vietnam War," he said, "has found our policymakers forcing Americans into a strange corner." Solemnly insisting he valued military service, he mused about "the very roots of what we are serving."

He sidestepped the draft by applying to the highly competitive Navy Officer Candidate School in Newport, R.I. As U.S. troop levels escalated and fierce fighting flared, college graduates flooded the Navy OCS with applications because duty aboard a ship was seen as far safer than being a junior officer in the Army or Marines.

But sea adventure also held allure, and Kerry shared the noblesse oblige of his social set. "In our circle, duty was a strong consideration," said Kerry intimate George Butler. "He knew what was expected."

The sons of New England's elite prep schools emulated fathers and heroes. Richard Kerry had been a World War II test pilot. John F. Kennedy, whose path Kerry talked of following and whose initials he shared, won renown on PT-109 in the South Pacific.

On training duty off Vietnam's coast in 1968 aboard the missile frigate Gridley, Kerry fixated on the 50-foot aluminum boats on patrol nearby. Shallow Water Inshore Fast Tactical craft were speedy oil rig transports modified with grenade launchers and .50-caliber machine guns.

"We were just enamored of those boats," said former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy Wade Sanders, who trained with Kerry. "It was cool; it was what Kennedy did."

Avoiding brutal warfare was also a factor, Kerry has admitted. Swift boat training prepared him for coastal duty, targeting junks and sampans that supplied the Vietcong. He expected a gentleman's war, with skirmishes and some casualties, not an infantryman's grinding combat.

But by his November arrival at the U.S. base at Cam Ranh Bay, Swift boat duty had grown hazardous. Frustrated at the Vietcong's ease at moving through the Mekong's web of rivers and canals, the Navy was probing inland. The Navy's new top officer in Vietnam, Vice Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr., had launched Operation Sealords, a plan that relied on Swift boats to seek out and destroy enemy vessels and hamlets.

Nosing past rice paddies and elephant grass, the noisy, thin-hulled boats were vulnerable to ambush by guerrillas with rocket launchers. "People started getting wounded, and boats were getting shot up. They needed a steady stream of replacements," recalled Stephen Hayes, a former Swift boat officer.

Kerry arrived "intent on living up to standards." But "from my first week in country," he said, he was disturbed by the "lack of taking territory. Strategically, it didn't make a lot of sense."

Hoffmann, a decorated Korean War veteran whom Navy officials chose to carry out that strategy, has not forgiven Kerry for questioning Sealords' results.

"He never saw the big picture," Hoffmann, 78, said during an interview at his Virginia home. "The key concept was to take over the rivers and work up to the Cambodian border. Well, we did that."

Plucked off a destroyer to head the Navy's effort to slash Vietcong supply routes, Capt. Hoffmann demanded initiative and obedience. A distant figure known by his code name, Latch, he popped in on missions, standing watch on deck with a .45 on his hip and a cigar clenched in his teeth. He gave officers authority to fire at will, and demanded body counts to prove their success. Favored lieutenants were cheered on with terse "Bravo Zulu" messages that signified "Well done." Sometimes Hoffmann added: "Good shooting."

Hoffman commanded more than 100 Swift boats, also called PCFs, for "patrol craft fast," as part of the Sealords mission. The boats advanced inland at a high cost. Several were sunk by rocket blasts, and, by the war's end, 51 men had died out of the nearly 3,000 officers and enlisted personnel in the "brown water navy."

As the boats pushed deep into Mekong waterways, only the dense southern Ca Mau Peninsula — where Kerry would spend most of his war — remained impenetrable. There, Hoffmann dispatched Swift boats carrying special forces and mercenaries on harassing coastal sweeps similar to "Jeb Stuart's civil war raids. There was never any real effort to take territory. We kept them off-balance," Hoffmann said.

Even before he had his first boat command, Kerry sailed off on a "dangerous mission" that led to his first wound — and to skeptical murmurs. Patrolling north of Cam Ranh Bay in a small skimmer on the night of Dec. 2, Kerry and two crewmen fired on Vietcong guerrillas massed on a beach. Amid the din, he felt a sting in his forearm.

"I didn't see where it came from," Kerry said. Radarman Jim Wasser, who patrolled that night in another boat and who later sailed with Kerry, recalled hearing a radio message that "someone had a slight wound."

The next day, the base medical officer used tweezers to remove a shrapnel shard from Kerry's arm. According to the former medic, retired Dr. Louis Letson, Kerry said he had been "under hostile fire." But corpsmen heard from other crewmen that there was no return volley, said Letson, now among Hoffmann's anti-Kerry faction.

Later that day, Kerry displayed what his superior, Lt. Cmdr. Grant Hibbard, recalled as a "scratch." Kerry asked him to write an official injury report, but Hibbard said he told Kerry to "forget it." Vaguely recalling that he later "took some heat" for turning Kerry down, Hibbard was angered when he learned that Kerry had won a Purple Heart.

Hibbard and other critics cited the incident as a glaring mark against Kerry as an officer and a gentleman. By grubbing for an undeserved honor, they said, Kerry used it to reduce his Vietnam tour. "He fell short," Hibbard said.

Kerry testily denied initially pressing for the award, saying he simply reported the wound. "Later on, I asked where it was or something," he said, but insisted he played no role in obtaining the medal. "It wasn't my decision."

It was the Navy's. The award came from the Naval Support Facility in Saigon — issued without any evident formal protest at the time from Hibbard, Letson or other commanders. Neither the slightness of Kerry's wound nor its murky origins would have likely disqualified him, said Shelby Jean Kirk, a retired civilian director of the Bureau of Naval Operations awards branch.

The most critical element in an award decision was "action against the enemy." Conflicting battle accounts were not uncommon, and when Navy awards personnel could not make a clear determination, the serviceman often "got the benefit of the doubt," Kirk said.

"The fog of war forced the system to bend to interpretation," said former Navy Cmdr. David L. Riley, author of "Uncommon Valor," a history of the Navy's awards.

A review of injury reports from Kerry's boat units during his tour of duty confirms that pattern. Stacked in the Navy archives in Washington, the records show that in the last three months of Kerry's tour, 46 Swift boat personnel were wounded. Most were hurt by shrapnel, and all but five of the cases earned Purple Hearts.

Injury reports are missing from Kerry's first month — including his contested Dec. 2 wound. But at least two dozen of the 46 men who were wounded later suffered "light" or "minor" shrapnel injuries. In a similar number of cases, wounds could not be clearly traced to enemy fire.

"All I knew," Kerry said, "was I had a hole in my shirt and a hole in my arm."

Within days, he had his first boat command. Through late January, he led the five-man crew of PCF-44, patrolling between Cam Ranh Bay and An Thoi, a small base on the western rind of the remote Ca Mau.

The patrician Kerry worked hard at winning over his crew. Small-town boys, they were wary of the "long, tall Yankee," recalled Oklahoma boatswain's mate Drew Whitlow. Kerry patiently explained the details of each mission. After a firefight, he huddled with each man to "make sure we were all right," Wasser said.

Only gunner Steve Gardner held out. Convinced Kerry was a hesitant skipper and "in it for himself," Gardner said the two men had heated arguments.

Some fellow officers viewed Kerry as "aloof," often "bent over a typewriter in the corner while we had beers," Hayes said.

A prolific letter writer who also amassed a thick war diary, Kerry gravitated to officers who shared his fascination with politics and ideas. He bonded with close friend Lt. Elliot "Skip" Barker in long talks about philosophy and Vietnam's stirring landscape and tortured history.

Kerry told Barker of his interest in "some sort of public office." Other former officers said he astonished them by confiding a loftier goal — the presidency. In officers club discussions, "he would mention Kennedy and how he was an officer in charge of a small craft in wartime and went home a hero," said former Lt. Bill Shumadine. "John said he was going to do the same thing."

On routine patrol at sea, days could be idyllic. Kerry instigated speed races with other Swift boats and duels with flare guns. Using a tape deck plugged into the boat's public address system, he blared out favorite Doors albums. He spent hours documenting his tour, narrating his impressions on a tape recorder and using a hand-held movie camera he owned to film landscapes and sampan boardings. It was a hobby that stood out among sailors who mostly toted around cheap still cameras.

Nights in the canals were ambush hell. Just before Christmas near the Cambodian border, Wasser opened fire after a mortar round exploded. His shots killed an old man tending a water buffalo. "The holiday season's still tough on me," he said.

In another harrowing incident, Gardner blasted a Vietcong suspect off a sampan as he saw "the guy rise up with an AK-47." When the crew boarded, they found a frightened woman and a child's bullet-riddled body.

"It became a walk on the dark side," Kerry said, quieting at his memories.

There were no repercussions. In a "free-fire" zone, Hoffmann expected crews to use their guns when necessary. "Everything isn't peaches and cream in warfare," Hoffmann said. "You either get the message across that you've got firepower and you're willing to use it, or you go home."

But his lieutenants also had to hew to the Navy's strict chain of command and "standard operating procedure." For aggressive officers like Kerry, that meant walking a fine line.

After more than a month at the helm of PCF-44, Kerry was given command of a second boat, PCF-94, out of An Thoi. On a series of sweeps in the Ca Mau, he stretched his tactics. Weary of ambushes, he began beaching his boat under fire, a risky move shunned by most officers.

In training, Swift boat officers were warned that a Navy commander never left his boat — snipers and booby traps were a constant peril. But on Feb. 28, Kerry went on land. After transporting units of South Vietnamese soldiers for a raid on a Vietcong camp on the Rach Dong Cung canal, PCF-94 and two other Swift boats were attacked from the shore. The boats turned toward the volleys, scattering guerrillas with machine-gun fire.

Continuing downriver, the boats sailed into a rocket barrage. Kerry ordered helmsman Sandusky to wheel toward the beach. As the boat skidded on land, a teenage insurgent rose up only a few feet away, hoisting a B-40 grenade launcher.

"I could see the hairs of his mustache," said gunner Fred Short. "Why he didn't fire, who knows? I guess we scared hell out of him."

Tom Belodeau, the other gunner, got off a burst. Wounded in the leg, the youth hobbled behind a hut with his weapon. Armed with an M-16 rifle, Kerry ordered Belodeau and mate Mike Medeiros to follow, then sprinted ahead. "We were all firing, but the skipper got him," Short recalled.

None of the crewmen alive today had a clear view of the shooting. But "next thing we know, there's Kerry with the B-40 in his hand," Sandusky said.

Kerry's charge won him a Silver Star, personally awarded by Zumwalt in a Saigon ceremony. Three days after the skirmish, Kerry and his crew also received a cable from Sealords task force headquarters.

"The tactic of attack and assault thoroughly surprised the enemy in his spider-holes and proved to be immensely effective in rousting him into the open," the message read.

The cable was from Hoffmann. Four times in February and March, he cabled Kerry and his crew, praising them and other Swift boats after skirmishes. Hoffmann acknowledged the cables, saying Kerry showed "some pretty sharp thinking. He had courage. But he was loose. He went out on his own too much."

Hoffmann and several former Swift officers said Kerry's boat sometimes veered off during missions without explanation — a criticism Kerry and his crewmen dismissed.

There are no official rebukes in Navy archives or Kerry's available personnel file. Hoffmann's criticism is also at odds with the glowing evaluations of Kerry in his official Navy record. Only Hibbard's was less than effusive.

"These were all exceptionally good men, and John Kerry was one of them," said former Lt. Cmdr. George Elliot, who gave him top marks.

Elliot nominated Kerry for his Silver Star, but also chided him for beaching his boat, telling Kerry he was uncertain whether he deserved an award or a court-martial. "There was never any question that he was in trouble," Elliot says now. "I just wanted it to be clear that he wasn't supposed to leave the boat."

The same day as the Silver Star beaching, Hoffmann sent Kerry's boat another cable commending the crew's capture of "5 VC males" in a "daring PCF operation [that] will provide an invaluable source of intelligence."

A photograph taken hours after that mission showed a pensive Kerry standing by in a Coast Guard cutter infirmary as a medic treated the gashed leg of a grimacing Vietcong prisoner. Shown the snapshot for the first time on a recent campaign stop in Portland, Ore., Kerry grew somber as he recalled the scene.

"That's the guy whose leg got chopped up by our boat," Kerry said quietly.

PCF-94 and another Swift boat had exchanged fire with two sampans in a night ambush. Five Vietcong suspects plunged into shallow water to escape. Three were hauled up while Kerry and Medeiros waded in the mud, cornering the others at gunpoint.

One wounded Vietcong fighter clung to a row of stakes used for netting fish. In a split-second face-off in a free-fire zone, Kerry said, "you could shoot anything that moved. But we figured, we can't shoot this guy. He's unarmed." They trundled him to a Coast Guard cutter, where Kerry watched while he was treated. "He was a human being. I wanted to make sure he made it," Kerry said.

The whipsawing between compassion and aggressive warfare was taking its toll. Kerry's letters home were grim. George Butler recalled a note about the "beauty of the land and what a violation the war had become. He was clearly depressed about what he was doing."

Kerry said nothing to Hoffmann, confiding only to officers he trusted. Barker said he harped repeatedly on "all the endangerment we faced for diminutive returns." Adrian Lonsdale, a Coast Guard commander at An Thoi, recalled "wide-ranging discussions" — but he complained that Kerry exaggerated the details of their talks in "Tour of Duty," an authorized history of his Vietnam War days.

Kerry's turning point came March 13, when he was ordered with four other Swift boat officers to transport Vietnamese mercenaries and U.S. officers on a series of sweeps along the Bay Hap River. After a long day of shore skirmishes, the gunboats chugged directly into a gantlet of machine-gun fire and mines.

A blast rocked PCF-94, pitching Kerry against the bulkhead and wrenching his arm. Another charge blew Army Lt. James Rassman into the river from another boat. Rassman bobbed under a wild spray of Vietcong gunfire. His arm bleeding, Kerry ordered Sandusky to swing the boat around.

"Here comes Kerry charging up to the bow," Rassman recalled. "He kneeled down and grabbed my arm and pulled me over. What a dummy. It was miraculous neither of us were hit."

Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart. With three decorated wounds, an obscure regulation allowed him to request reassignment — even back to the U.S. Kerry recalled one commander, Chuck Horne, telling him: "You've got a ticket home."

He had had enough. A strip of shrapnel was buried in his thigh. On the dock, he had counted 180 holes and dents in PCF-94's scarred hull. "I was convinced I'd probably be killed, the way we were going," Kerry recalled. "I didn't want to participate in something I thought was fundamentally screwed up."

The day he left, Kerry said few farewells. In the officers' barracks, he ran into fellow Swift boat officer Galvin and told him about his "three Purple Hearts" exit. Later wounded a third time, Galvin also used the rule to transfer out of the Mekong war zone several months early — though he stayed in Vietnam for the full year tour.

In the cramped hallway, Kerry told Galvin he was leaving because his fiancee, Julia Thorne, was worried about him and her two brothers, who were also serving in Vietnam. "He told me she was stressed out," Galvin recalled.

"She was very concerned," Kerry said. But his explanation was also likely politic, he said, "a silver lining of how I actually felt," glossing over the antiwar disillusionment that would fuel the next stage of his public life.

The two men spoke for a few more moments before parting. When Galvin glanced back, Kerry was already gone.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Times researcher John Beckham in Chicago contributed to this report.
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coffee
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Riverrat--I didn't know how to post the whole article.
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ASPB
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SOLDIER OF FORTUNE - July 2004
COMMAND GUIDANCE

A Vietnam POW Looks At Kerry

By Jim Warner

I have known Senator John McCain for 33 years. I have known Senator John Kerry for the same length of time. Sen. McCain I met in person, in a prisoner of war camp. In the same camp, I came to know about Senator Kerry, but only by reputation. In the Spring of 1971, Senator McCain was in the same camp with me, a camp the Communists told us was a punishment camp which we had been placed in because we were "reactionaries," with "bad attitudes." I only knew John Kerry through his words, but I encountered his words while in the same camp and at the same time as I met Senator McCain. In the 2000 presidential election I supported John McCain because, from my personal knowledge of him gained in that camp, I knew that he was fit to serve as President. In the 2004 presidential election, again based upon my knowledge gained in that camp, I oppose the election of John Kerry because I believe that he is unfit to serve as President.

In November of 1970 U.S. forces staged a commando raid on the prisoner of war camp at Son Tay, in North Viet-Nam, only 20 miles from downtown Hanoi. The North Vietnamese, in panic, began shutting down the outlying prison camps and moving American prisoners to the most secure location available, the infamous Hoa Lo prison in Hanoi, the prison we called "the Hanoi Hilton." There, with all 348 of the prisoners captured in the North together in one place, the Communists attempted to impose order. Their attempts were resisted. By January, an attempt by the Communists to forbid religious services in our cells led to a series of confrontations known by some as "the Church Riots." Finally, on March 19, in order to put a lid on things before they got out of hand, the Communists took 36 men whom they identified as the ring leaders and took them to a small camp a few miles south of Hanoi. Somehow, I was included in that number.

In this camp, which we called "Skid Row," the Communists appeared to have dispensed with the periodic interrogations which we referred to as "attitude checks." The "attitude check" needs to be explained. Throughout our imprisonment, we were constantly interrogated by political officers, a position which has no counterpart in the armed forces of non-communist countries. It is a central belief of marxism-leninism that our beliefs are the product of "objective material conditions." If one is not a marxist, it was only because he has not yet been exposed to marxist doctrine under the appropriate material circumstances. Thus, Communist armies travel everywhere with a baggage train of socialist missionaries eager to make converts.

Every prisoner of war camp in North Vietnam had at least one political officer, as well as some junior officers who assisted the political officer. It was their task to show us that we were wrong to oppose the spread of communism. I am sure that in the early years, they were confident that they were on the verge of a big break through, that just a few more interrogations would bring us to see the light. Eventually, they had to face the fact that it wasn't working. In reality, it was the very structure of marxist dogma that doomed the project before it was started.

Marxism is based upon economic beliefs that are, simply put, demonstrably wrong. Since it calls for behavior that is contrary to human nature, marxists understand that they cannot create the society they claim to believe in without changing human nature, or, as they put it, "creating the new, socialist, man." That is the job of the political officer, the socialist missionary. Unfortunately for the missionary, the new socialist man cannot be created if he is deceived by knowledge that is contrary to marxism. A person who lives under marxism will not hear opposing ideas debated. Thus, the political officer, appointed to teach in the Socialist version of Sunday School, has no capacity at all to defend the ideas he is selling. Since they did not know how to argue, we would try to confound them during these interrogations. I am certain that the record of our years of "attitude checks," in which we frustrated and taunted the political officer, had as much to do with our being chosen for the "punishment camp" as did our participation in the Church Riots. It should be understood that the last torture that we knew of had taken place in September of 1969. However, all torture was always preceded, and usually accompanied, by an interrogation. Any interrogation created anxiety, even if you could be reasonably certain that it would not end in torture. Thus, we were relieved when it seemed that our anti-communist "bad attitudes" had earned us a reprieve from the cycle of interrogations.

The reprieve did not last. In late May, two months after our arrival in the punishment camp, I was called out for interrogation. I entered the interrogation room to find a junior officer, a communist's helper, whom we called "Boris." For some time, Boris rambled on about the anti-war movement and of my "crimes." Usually, we would try to entertain ourselves in an interrogation by leading the interrogator along until he commits himself to a point which, if examined, is contrary to the party line, then show this to him. This involved considerable risk while there was still the actual threat of torture, but in the long run we thought that our cause would best be served by letting them see that we were not changing, that we remained "reactionaries." The thinking was, that any slight inclination toward the marxist view would be seized upon by the political officer who would then put unrelenting pressure upon you to go further. Besides, we were still at war, and we could still contribute something by letting the enemy know that he might be wrong. In fact, just presenting him with such an idea could torment him when he knew that the idea appeared to be true, but was the opposite of what the party taught him.

We sparred for about an hour. Then Boris reached behind his back and pulled out some clippings from a left wing newspaper in the U.S. He showed me several articles about an event, which had been held in Detroit, called "The Winter Soldier Hearings." He left me to read the articles while he left the room. The articles reported alleged "testimony" from people who claimed to be Viet-Nam veterans who allegedly claimed that they had done things which, if true, would have lead to courts martial for each of them. That is, they were typical communist propaganda.

Suddenly, I read an article about my mother testifying. Unlike the leftists, she did not condemn the U.S., she merely stated that she hoped the war would end soon and I would be released. The next article mentioned testimony from my father. His was like my mother's testimony, merely expressing hope that the war would end soon and that all who suffered from war would find relief. Nothing they said fit with the virulent anti-American sentiments that the leftists had expressed. But having their testimony included in with the "testimony" of those who claimed to be veterans, and the left wing activists present, seemed to give a dignity to the whole proceeding which it did not merit.

When Boris returned he asked me what I thought. I told him that I was from Detroit, but did not recognize any of the names so I assumed that they were communists brought in from around the country. "Not so," he cried. Look at this. He showed me a picture of an unforgettabIe face. "This man was an officer in your navy. He says that the war is illegal, immoral and unjust. Read what he says." I read the words of John Kerry. What John Kerry said, according to the clippings, was that the U.S. should abandon South East Asia, unilaterally and immediately. This, of course, would not only leave the Prisoners of War in the hands of the communists, but far worse, there was not a sane person in the universe who did not know that the instant the countries of South East Asia were abandoned, the blood bath would begin. I told Boris "this man should be punished. He says that he did criminal things. America is a free country and a free people do not allow such crimes. We are not like communists." I told Boris that there would be a blood bath if we pulled out unilaterally. Boris got angry and began threatening me. He said that my own countrymen, Jane Fonda, Sen. Fulbright, and the subject of the article, John Kerry, insisted that the threatened "blood bath" was a myth invented by the reactionary government of the United States. He told me that Kerry had admitted that we were criminals, as the communists never ceased to tell us, and that we should be punished. The interrogation continued for another hour. Finally, Boris, frustrated, put me back in my cell, while still muttering threats at me. It was the longest interrogation I had without torture.

When John Kerry said that Vietnam vets were criminals, did he not know that the communists would use his words against the POWs? He feels insulted when someone questions his patriotism. What other conclusion would you come to, if you were in my shoes? Kerry, from what I read, did not criticize the tactics or strategy we were using in Vietnam. If that was what he wanted to say, I am sure that most Vietnam vets, who saw first hand that McNamara's strategy was foolish, would have agreed with him. It appeared to me that it was not the methods we were using to defend the people of South East Asia from communism that he disagreed with, it was the fact that we were doing it at all. When he said that Viet-Nam vets were criminals, did he not know that the communists would use his words against the POWs?

Anti-communists predicted a blood bath if the communists took over Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. The left, including Jane Fonda and John Kerry, told us that this was a myth. Which one proved to be true? When liberals in the United States Congress voted to withdraw all material support to the free people of South East Asia, did innocent people die? Up until the moment that John Kerry embraced the anti-war movement — which in my situation, what else could I believe other than that this meant embracing the cause of the communists — the evidence against communism was overwhelming. In the attempt to build the "new socialist man" millions of innocents were willfully slaughtered, and millions more lived squalid and hopeless lives, impoverished by economic policies which a freshman economics student could tell you would not work. If John Kerry did not embrace this, if he did not embrace what the liberals in Congress did in 1975, then what the hell was he embracing?

Given the evidence that John Kerry has presented to us, his own words, his own actions, I am forced to one of two conclusions. Either John Kerry's patriotism is questionable, or his judgment is questionable. Without deciding which is true, I can say that I personally believe that in neither case is he qualified to be President.
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coldwarvet
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Callsign: Boston Strangler Reply with quote

[quote="ASPB"]Call sign: Boston strangler
May 13th, 2004


Quote:
Working with call sign “Boston Strangler” became problematical. “I had a lot of trouble getting him to follow orders,” recalls Wright. “He had a different view of leadership and operations. Those of us with direct experience working with Kerry found him difficult and oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives. I believed that overall responsibility rested squarely on the shoulders of the OIC or OTC in a free-fire zone. You had to be right (before opening fire). Kerry seemed to believe there were no rules in a free-fire zone and you were supposed to kill anyone. I didn’t see it that way.”


I believe Kerry from perhaps the time he spent with JFK on his yaht had his sights on the white House. Even in his speach yesterday he went back 35 years wich includes his swift boat service. Kerry has always been in it for himself.

"It is what it is all about. It is what the 35 years of my struggle have been about, and I am so proud that together John Edwards and I are now going to fight to build one America for all Americans."

Quote from Kerry 7/6/04 Edwards VP anouncement. He is still so proud of his VVAW days.
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Me#1You#10
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an earlier post, I stated the following:

Me#1You#10 wrote:
As I stated in an earlier thread on this article, there is one paragraph that I had difficulty reconciling. However, after subsequently becoming aware of John Kerry's sequence of unit changes, the reference to 2 independent periods of service and allegations of improper Kerry activity within each period alleged by Lt. Wright becomes clear.


Recently, however, I read that Kerry's initial "mission" as a Coastal 11 officer was to transport the 44 boat from Cam Ranh to either Cat Lo or An Thoi (I can't put my finger on the source...any help out there in that regard?). It now appears that Doug Reese's observation that Lt. Wright was refering to an inter-Coastal Division 11 "boat group" transfer is probably accurate, and that the period of activity refered to by Ltjg. Wright was, in all probability, Kerry's second period of service in the Coastal 11 AO.

This may also explain the mis-characterization of Coastal 13 as being located in Cam Ranh, not Cat Lo, on the Kerry website, as it appears that Kerry may have picked up the 44 boat in a transfer operation from Coastal 14. It is plausible, I suppose, that Kerry and the 44 boat were temporarily detached from Coastal 11 to Coastal 13 under LCDR Streuli's
command, but there are no records that I'm aware of that would document the presence of Kerry on the 44 boat in the Coastal 13 AO.

As Drudge would say....developing.
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The bandit
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me#1You#10 wrote:
This may also explain the mis-characterization of Coastal 13 as being located in Cam Ranh, not Cat Lo, on the Kerry website, as it appears that Kerry may have picked up the 44 boat in a transfer operation from Coastal 14. It is plausible, I suppose, that Kerry and the 44 boat were temporarily detached from Coastal 11 to Coastal 13 under LCDR Streuli's command, but there are no records that I'm aware of that would document the presence of Kerry on the 44 boat in the Coastal 13 AO.


When was he attached to div 13? I don't have the dates in front of me, but do have the logs for the 44 at div. 11.
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Me#1You#10
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bandit wrote:

When was he attached to div 13? I don't have the dates in front of me, but do have the logs for the 44 at div. 11.


This is the best I can come up with in terms of unit assignments/dates...

Quote:
November 17, 1968 – Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay

December 6, 1968 – Coastal Division 11, An Thoi

December 13, 1968 – Coastal Division 13, Cat Lo (Vung Tau)

Date Unknown (but prior to 22 Jan 69, the date of the Zumwault/Abrams meeting with COSDIV11)- Coastal Division 11, An Thoi

January 29, 1969 - Kerry takes command PCF94


The specific date of Kerry's third (and last) transfer from COSDIV13 to COSDIV11 cannot be established from the Kerry-supplied material. Page 1 of the "Streuli fitrep", which would have provided that documentation, is MISSING and has been replaced by Page 1 of a "concurrent" report composed by LCDR Elliot some 9 months after the fact at the behest of CHNVPERS. That "concurrent" report covers the entire period from Kerry's initial assignment to COSDIV11 thru his DEROS (if that's the Navy term).
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Dane
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as aproach order compared to seniority, I ran a NEO mission in which I sent in the number two boat first. My boat was to embark the evacs so I sent in the second boat to secure the far area of the port. Thus, the position in line is not indicative of operational command order.
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4moreyears
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boston Strangler and Ted...birds of a feather flock together IMHO
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4moreyears
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY is what I think Kerry has accomplished.

So I've heard the accounts of Kerry shooting a young VC sniper...and a young kid in a sanpan. Kerry has admitted the free fire zone incidents.

So he got back home...joined the anti war movement...admits his responsibility and gives a blanket statement that that beheadings, cutting off of ears, burning villages, rape, etc., etc. happen all the time. I guess logic follows that if everyone else did it...then Kerry's participation is forgiveable.

War crimes have no statute of limitations...perhaps his immediate crew knowing that fact have chosen to cast their lot with Kerry.
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