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War Dog Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 517 Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet; |
Clearly prisoner abuse, not torture!
Quote: | b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees; |
Neither prisoner abuse or torture!
Quote: | c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing; |
Clearly prisoner abuse, not torture!
[quote]d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;[quote]
Neither prisoner abuse nor torture, but method of interrogation!
Quote: | e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear; |
Humiliation, not prisoner abuse or torture, but method of interrogation!
Quote: | f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped; |
Clearly prisoner abuse, not torture!
Quote: | g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them; |
Clearly prisoner abuse, not torture!
[quote]h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and ***** to simulate electric torture; …[quote]
Humiliation, not prisoner abuse nor torture, but method of interrogation!
Quote: | j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female soldier pose for a picture; |
Humiliation, not prisoner abuse nor torture!
Quote: | k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee; |
Clearly prisoner abuse, not torture!
Quote: | l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee … |
Using military working dogs (with or without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees is an accepted form of interrorgation used by many nations intelligence services to break down prisoners and obtain information from them.
However, letting the dogs bite and injure a detainee is clear prisoner abuse, but not torture!
Quote: | a. Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; |
Neither prisoner abuse nor torture! The liquid in these lights does not harm the skin, and is only harmful if ingested. Clearly a method of interrogation.
Quote: | b. Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol; |
Not prisoner abuse nor torture, but method of interrogation!
Quote: | c. Pouring cold water on naked detainees; |
Not prisoner abuse nor torture, but method of interrogation!
Quote: | d. Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; |
Clearly prisoner abuse, but not torture!
Quote: | e. Threatening male detainees with rape; … |
Not prisoner abuse nor torture, but method of interrogation!
Quote: | g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick." |
Clearly prisoner abuse, but not torture!
This is senseless to keep this topic alive.
When this abuse was reported, the military authorities in the Pentagon and in Iraq immediately took action to investigate this, relieved of duty and replaced all individuals charged or suspected of this prisoner abuse. This was reported in the Press back in January, and by the time the media released the story, this had already been taken care of by the military at the prison.
The people that were involved in these acts of unexcusable prisoner abuse were relieved of their duties, investigated, and have either been prosecuted by the Military Justice System under the UCMJ, or are currently awaiting same.
But of course, our leftist, Bush Hating friends are trying their best to blame this on President Bush, VP Cheney, SecDef Rumsfield, and the upper chain of Command of the Pentagon. None of this behaivor that is clearly prisoner abuse was authorized by anyone in Washington, D.C.. President Bush and his Administration have consistantly condemned this behaivor by a few individuals at this prison. This behaivor and unexplainable acts of prisoner abuse was only conducted and carried out by a small group of reservists and apparently ordered and scripted by a few members of the intelligence personnel responsible for interrogations and obtaining information from these prisoners.
Additionally, the prisoners that this happened to were in the 'special' area of the prison, and were considered to be terrorists or terrorists sympthizers/supporters. While I feel that the incidents of prisoner abuse should not have happened, and the individuals involved should be punished to the fullest extent of the UCMJ and the American Justice System, I feel no sorrow for these prisoners, as the acts carried out by terrorists in Iraq are far worse than any of these acts. And IF these prisoners were in fact part of that terrorist network, then maybe they should have been interrogated with different methods, but again, I don't feel any sorrow for them, because if they had their chance, they would have killed and injured as many soldiers and civilians as they could!
Just my opinion!
Woof! _________________ "When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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MikeWinn Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 110 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Dang, War Dog. You beat me to the punch. I couldn't have said it better myself. I wonder if Blackfrancis considers beheading nothing more than retaliation for the 'heinous' acts perpetrated upon the poor innocent Iraqi
citizenry. geeeeez Like you said, it's time to take the gloves off!! If we are going to be accused of nasty stuff, let's give them something to lend credence to it. _________________ LOCK & LOAD!
GunnerMike
Spectre Gunner and 141 FE
Dedicated to Rico. KIA March 14, 1971.
Love ya man. |
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LewWaters Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 4042 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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And still, mainsewer media makes a bug fuss over a handful of troops allegedly "abusing" and "torturing" detainees and virtually ignores terrorists beheading innocent civilians.
I would expect no less from the Hate and Blame America First crowd. |
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fortdixlover Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 1476
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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LewWaters wrote: | And still, mainsewer media makes a bug fuss over a handful of troops allegedly "abusing" and "torturing" detainees and virtually ignores terrorists beheading innocent civilians.
I would expect no less from the Hate and Blame America First crowd. |
My apologies for the "abuses" at Abu Ghraib:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims
(Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.
I am sorry that Yasir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and highjacked the Palestinian "cause".
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.
I am sorry that our own left wing elite, our media, and our own brainwashed (from elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY & LA TIMES) masses do not understand any of this.
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets.
I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site".
I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn't apologize for flights 77, 93, 96 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc!
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners.
Sure, it was wrong. Sure, it dramatically hurts our cause. But until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujans.
If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins. |
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Grampa Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 143 Location: Eureka, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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In an attempt to educate those who are unfamiliar about how Abu Ghuraib prison is run so that they may not be confused as to who was doing what to whom and where, I will describe general operations there. First, theres about 4 different spelling for Abu Ghuraib, so don't spellcheck me on it.
There are three parts to the prison:
1. The Holding/InProcessing Area, where all prisoners come thru. Here they sort them out based on where they were picked up and what they were doing. Some are transfers from other holding areas in Iraq as well as Municipal and regional jails. This is where they also decide if someone needs further interrogation.
2. The Gancy compounds, which are open air tent cities that house both security threats and regular felons and petty criminals. There is another open air compound that has been built since I left, but I dont know what it is called.
3. Camp Vigilance, which is also known as the hard site. This is where the hardcorps and convicted felons go after they have been tried. This is also where the "humiliation" and alleged abuse took place.
As alot of coalition arrests are performed by Infantry and not police and also under rules of warfare, rather than the ACLU, so probable cause isn't a factor. Thus we would get guys who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Overseeing this is supposed to be a magistrate committee of US Officers to review individual cases for merit. The problem was, they were hugely backlogged when I left, but we still released upwards of 500 prisoners a month and had been doing so since it was opened in May 2003. Since Abu wasn't in the news back then, Dan Rather didn't give a sh**, nor did any media. (In fact, the media didnt give a sh** when we were mortared for 54 days straight. Only when it can make W look bad have the media been interested in that place. but I digress.)
The ones released are usually those brought in under a security hold that have been deemed to be no threat after all. Some of the petty criminals are in this mix as well, having served their appropriate sentence. The only "injustice" in all of this is those that are held for long periods due to the backlog and lack of staffing. But, as we are still operating under martial law there in Iraq, this will continue to happen.
The ongoing regular release of prisoners from Abu Ghurayb is otherwise inconsequential, as it has always been happening.
(Edited for spelling) _________________ Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home!
Last edited by Grampa on Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MikeWinn Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 110 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Great post, Grandpa!!! Sierra Hotel!!! Rest assured, though, the lefties and other Democrats will still find fault with everything you said and did. By the way, thanks for your service to this great country! I'll always have your six. _________________ LOCK & LOAD!
GunnerMike
Spectre Gunner and 141 FE
Dedicated to Rico. KIA March 14, 1971.
Love ya man. |
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Grampa Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 143 Location: Eureka, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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MikeWinn wrote: | Great post, Grandpa!!! Sierra Hotel!!! Rest assured, though, the lefties and other Democrats will still find fault with everything you said and did. By the way, thanks for your service to this great country! I'll always have your six. |
I appreciate your support.
_________________ Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home! |
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