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Iraq Veteran gets rude welcome on Bainbridge 4th July parade
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B_Francis
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpro wrote:
B_Francis wrote:
that's just sad that anyone would do that. Sadly, respect seems to be lacking more and more these days.


These days? You forget that some of us have experience with this behavior from over 30 years ago.


well, there will always be ignorance. you can't eridicate it.
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

retracted

Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpro wrote:
B_Francis wrote:
that's just sad that anyone would do that. Sadly, respect seems to be lacking more and more these days.


These days? You forget that some of us have experience with this behavior from over 30 years ago.


Truth be told, there may be some of us who have experience with this behavior for 30 years.

And if Kerry were elected, it may be that those experiences would continue for another 30 years with a little help from our current Academia. The sad Irony is with the Saint Xavier Univ. History Prof Kirstein example, the president of the University, Dr Yanikoski, ex Air Force himself, stepped down in just a few weeks, no doubt influenced (and perhaps amazed) by all his communist employees (or perhaps by a Communist Board of Trustees???). And while Kirstein was suspended for a semester, Point being that the good president may have been the only thing good about Xavier, and he's out. It's Academia that has to change it's tune, that's wherein the rot starts. Always been that way, at least from the 60's. And you'd think by now the Students of History would 'get it'. The Xavier President included this with his 'apology' for the Xavier Professor's 'baby-killer' email:

"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the the flag." -- Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC

BT
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Indianbaboon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so true about academia being the source of the rot.

I once had a teacher in genetics and development dismiss a graduate level seminar so that she and the students could go protest some silly communist thing or another.

GENETICS. what business does a genetics teacher have forcing a political agenda down the throats of grad students? Rolling Eyes
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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War Dog
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but this really ticks me off. When I returned from my little bit of time overseas in Southeast Asia in the Vietnam War, which was seven and a half months more than John F. Kerry, I landed at the SF airport on December 23rd, 1972 in my very clean and starched dress kakai uniform, with my blue AF Security Police K9 beret, my ribbons, and my AF Security Police badge, spit shined boots, and was proud of my service, and my year in hell.

I had gotten off of 'World' airlines at one terminal, and had to change to another terminal to catch my flight to LA, then Denver, Dallas, and finally to Jax, Florida. Outside of the terminal was the grubbest bunch of smelly people I've ever seen. There was about 20 of them, with picket signs all anti-war. I was called a baby killer, murderer, rapist, war criminal. I was spit on, and one threw red paint all over me and two other GI's. Man, was I ticked, and hurt at the same time. When I got to the terminal, I had to go buy some civies, and change into them, cause my uniform was totally ruined. I paid $47 dollars, and that was alot of money in 72.

I knew that there were anti-war protestors back here, and at some level, I was also against the war, how it was fought, and the government's involvement in it, plus all the broken promises. But I never, ever expected that type of welcome home reception.

I came home to a great welcome by my family, and some of my friends. However, some of my friends were deeply into the anti-war movement, and regarded me the same as those at the SF airport.

I quickly learned in my 30 days of leave that you did not advertise that you were just back from the Vietnam War, that you were in the military, and you damn sure didn't wear your uniform out in public. Basically, you kept your mouth shut, kept it inside of you, and bore the hurt and the humiliation and the anger.

I also have seen my buddies and friends in the ten years or so after I returned, that lost jobs because they were Vietnam Veterans. Some of them lost wives, kids, girlfriends and friends because of the changes in them, and because of having to keep all their anger, emotion, feelings, etc.. inside of them.

Pride turned to anger, anger turned to depression, depression to shame, and so on, running the full gambit of emotions. Many Vietnam Veterans went nuts, or even worse, committed sucide. Many became drug addicts (including damn near me), alcoholics, and homeless.

And still to this day, there are those in this nation that still look upon Vietnam Veterans like those people in that airport in SF did that cold day in December when I returned. They still think of us as baby killers, war mongers, murderers, rapists, war criminals. They still believe that we all committed atrocities each and every day that we were incountry in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Thailand.

There are still people in this nation that firmly believe that all Vietnam Veterans are nuts, crazy, wacko's, unstable, mentally unhinged, and that each and every one of us given the right spark, could go postal any second. I'm not kidding, there are still people out there that fear Vietnam Veterans.

I personally, like many, many of my brothers have had to live with this type behaivor for over 29 years (since 1975 and the official end of the Vietnam War), but many for over 40 years. It hurt then, and it still hurts now, and in fact, it hurts alot when I have to read about this type of behaivor still going on.

What really ticks me off is that people like Jane Fonda, Abbie Hoffman, Tom Hayden, John Kerry, and many others are a big reason for this type behaivor in our nation. The lies that they told to this nation, and the prefabricated lies and false accusations that they on purpose made up just so their side could win, deeply hurt hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of our nation's veterans.

And now this same behaivor is hurting our brave sons and daughters now serving in the military and over in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in other places around the globe.

This is unacceptable to me, and I'm sorry, but I've put up with this type of crap for long enough. I'd love for someone to get in my face now with this crap. I might end up in jail, but I would not be responsible for what I might do to them! I've tried all my life to be non-violent, and peace loving, and tolerant of others. Oh, I know that in the military, I had times when I had to be violent, but that was simply doing my job, self protection, protection of my fellow servicemen and women, and doing what I had to do to live till the next minute, hour, day!

I still to this day run that full gambit of emotions over the Vietnam War. I suffer from PTSD, just like many of my brothers. I go through highs, lows, depression, self-pity, anger, laughter, good times, bad times, good memories, bad memories, good dreams, nightmares, night sweats, not sleeping, etc... And just like my fellow Veterans from all wars, I live with it each and every day of my life, and will have that year and everything that happened during it with me till I die.

So, what should I think and feel towards these cowards that the majority of never wore a uniform, never served a day in the military, never defended their country? Those that have no clue as to what is meant by the terms, duty, honor, country? Those cowards that never had to face fear head on, never had to live on adrenelin for hours, days or weeks on end. These cowards that don't have a clue as to what it means to be so damn scared that you are damn near shaking out of your boots, and knowing that you have to go out there and possibly face your own death, night after night for a whole year, and that you do it because it is your job, you have to protect your buddies, your base, and because if you don't go do it, no one else will.

Do I have any respect for them? I think you should know that answer to that one. I have the same respect for them that they had for me that day I returned to the USA almost 32 years ago!

I've had enough of these type people, and so have the majority of Vietnam Veterans. That's why so many of them, plus our Veterans since Vietnam are against John Kerry.

I'll not get into that can of worms now, and get off of my soap box.

But for all of you, my fellow Vietnam Veterans out there, I've got your back, and if you need me to help you open that can of whup-a$$, just let me know, and I'll be there!

Friggin War Woof!
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coldwarvet
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your service war dog. You Vietnam guys suffered so much. I served from 75 - 79 and the protesters were gone, however even durring my time I could not wear my uniform in public without some long hair flipping me the bird. I just about went ballistic when my Navy son told me about his episode in Chicago.
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garb1015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

War Dog, you were a better man than all of those protestors put together.
I can relate to many parts of your story. My encounter was much smaller than yours because it only involved one person.
I returned home in March of 1971. I had spent fourteen months in I Corps and processed out of the Army at Ft. Lewis. While walking through SeaTac airport to catch my flight to L.A. I noticed a nice looking lady with two little girls walking toward me and as they got closer I saw that she was looking right at me. When they were about fifteen feet away the woman moved both of the little girls to the other side of her and she kept looking me in the eye as they walked passed.
It took me a few seconds to realize what had happened. That was thirty three years ago but I will never forget it. What that lady did that day hurt me more than any crowd of hippie protestors ever could.
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B_Francis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hist/student wrote:
There will always be ignorance, each of us are ignorant of endless topics.

However there is no excuse for this kind of ignorance. This ignorance leads to abuse, and is abuse of a soldier who puts his life on the line 24/7/365.

Further if someone is actually ignorant to this degree..... is it not foolhardy for them to be voting? One could find themselves voting and arguing for their own ellimination from the planet when in truth this is not what they desire.


okay, so who decides who is ignorant or not?

Quote:
What about people this ignorant watching Michael Moore and actually believing he knows what he's talking about? Sowing very dangerous and hatefull seeds.


so then michael moore is a liar since you say so? how are seeds of hatred sown? by a vote?

Quote:
I can think of quite a few examples to make my point but each are so inflamitory I'll leave it to your own thoughts.



A woman voting and protesting against 'universal sufferage' because her husband is her hero, idol, protector,friend.... etc....

this is the least offensive example I can come up with.


I tried to make some sense of that "universal sufferage" example you mentioned above, but could not get the point you were trying to make.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_suffrage

I went there for a definition of "universal sufferage", but it seemed that you are trying to say that an ignorant woman would be voting aginst her right to vote? this is a conundrum, at best.
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B_Francis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: My Son on Liberty had the bird flipped at him. Reply with quote

coldwarvet wrote:
My 19 year old son who is in "A" school at Great Lakes went to Chicago on liberty with his two bothers 21, & 17 when some hippi type on a bycicle road by them and flipped him the bird. My 17 year old just enlisted last week and will be going to Great Lakes 2/05. And my 21 year old is graduating from the U of MN @ Winnona next spring as a mass communications major. He says he wants Rush L's job. I am so proud of my 3 sons. A good thing I wasn't in Chicago with them I would of chased this SOB down and beat the heck out of him and I would proubably be sitting in a cell right now because some wrong thinking judge would throw the book at me.


while I can agree that flipping anyone off is extremely disrespcetful, and I would not raise my child to behave like that, two wrongs don't make a right. If the "hippy" had jumped your son from behind instead, and fought with him, I can imagine you would be fine with a judge charging him with assault. but if you had done the same, the judge would be "wrong thinking"?

With all due respect, I just don't follow your logic

also, good job with your kids! good that you are raising "A" students!
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PhD candidate
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:09 am    Post subject: Academia = source of rot? Reply with quote

Are you actually trying to suggest that attempts to educate our youth and young adults rots our society? How can that be so? Education is about teaching people to think and look at the world from micro and macrocosmic perspectives. Academia is about creating debate, nourishing free speech and raising critical, analytical thinkers. Perhaps you are afraid to debate those that may be armed with the skill to undo your simplistic argument?

You ask why a genetics professor would dismiss her class to go to political rally? And I would ask why not? As an educator I never miss an opportunity to expand the horizons of my students. I agree that it is folly to force your political agenda down the throats of your students but allowing them to attend a protest is not forcing your agenda. Unless of course you were going to be graded down had you refused to go. The beauty of academia is that you CAN hold an opposite view and be praised for it.

It is the responsibility of those that educate to help shape the worldview of their students. As an instructor I am doing more than presenting the material in the course. I am helping to create free thinkers and one way of doing so to periodically step outside the box and discuss issues that may not be directly related to the material. Generally, I find that there are ways to make it all come full circle.

Science is founded in debate and protest. Had it not been for those that criticized the "creation myth" and debated its merit, we might not believe in evolution and there might not be any genetics to study.

So why go to a protest instead of sticking with the lesson of the day? Because your professor was doing more than teaching you about genetics. She was teaching you about life and about our right to protest that which we find distasteful. She was teaching you to be a free thinker as any good scientist should be. And thats is probably how I would make such a lesson come full circle.

What many of you forget is that had it not been for debate and protest, there would be no need for "a well-armed militia." America was founded in debate and protest. Academia is about expanding these ideals and creating people who think freely and abstractly without fear of repression of their beliefs. It is not the source of the rot---- the rot comes from the individual who refuses to take things beyond what they read in a book or see on tv.



Indianbaboon wrote:
so true about academia being the source of the rot.

I once had a teacher in genetics and development dismiss a graduate level seminar so that she and the students could go protest some silly communist thing or another.

GENETICS. what business does a genetics teacher have forcing a political agenda down the throats of grad students? Rolling Eyes
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coldwarvet
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:55 pm    Post subject: “If we do not learn from our mistakes we are doomed to repea Reply with quote

“If we do not learn from our mistakes we are doomed to repeat them”.

Two documents that I believe should be in every US media course and debated.

Before you vote read these two transcripts.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=KerryONeill
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony

Is there a record of an apology from Senator Kerry to the Vietnam era veterans?

If not, I will not be able to vote for Kerry.
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coldwarvet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:25 pm    Post subject: Why isn't the VVAW chapter of American History taught. Reply with quote

PHD Candidate
Quote:
Perhaps you are afraid to debate those that may be armed with the skill to undo your simplistic argument?


Why isn't the VVAW chapter of American History taught by you educrates?

Just like Kerry you poison the minds of our children with left wing propaganda while forcing any pro American to defend their position.

Many of you professors with your well honed skills enjoy tearing up a young conservative thinking student to the point they just go along with your dogma.

Go ahead prove me wrong. I challenge you to find one piece of curricula that uses the VVAW chapter of American history as an example of the miss use of media power.

What is the percentage of the conservatives you teach with? If you like I can find the data that pretty much confirms that the educrates control the American campuses.
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coldwarvet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:26 pm    Post subject: I think the PHD Candidate met his match Reply with quote

I think the PHD Candidate met his match and run off to try and covert some right thinking student into his lefty ways. I will make it a point to pray for the students that become his prey.
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fortdixlover
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Joined: 12 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

War Dog wrote:
I still to this day run that full gambit of emotions over the Vietnam War. I suffer from PTSD, just like many of my brothers. I go through highs, lows, depression, self-pity, anger, laughter, good times, bad times, good memories, bad memories, good dreams, nightmares, night sweats, not sleeping, etc... And just like my fellow Veterans from all wars, I live with it each and every day of my life, and will have that year and everything that happened during it with me till I die.


Something you should know. I have a friend who emigrated to the U.S. from a Soviet bloc country in the mid 1970's, then a communist country. Here's what he told me: that every time those in his city saw a bomb dropped on Vietnam, they cheered. They cheered because they saw it as an attempt to fight against the horror that is Communism. I'm sure that if you talk to other citizens of the former Soviet bloc, you will hear similar sentiments. The thing that my friend did not understand is why the American troops were not allowed to simply crush the communists as they needed to be crushed.

But now, he tells me, he knows why: Jane Fonda, John Kerry, Tom Hayden, VVAW, etc., people who either were ignorant of what was being fought for, or were simply enemy sympathizers and traitors to the cause of freedom.

You are paying the wages of that malignant mental disorder known as leftism.

War Dog wrote:

So, what should I think and feel towards these cowards that the majority of never wore a uniform, never served a day in the military, never defended their country? Those that have no clue as to what is meant by the terms, duty, honor, country? Those cowards that never had to face fear head on, never had to live on adrenelin for hours, days or weeks on end. These cowards that don't have a clue as to what it means to be so damn scared that you are damn near shaking out of your boots, and knowing that you have to go out there and possibly face your own death, night after night for a whole year, and that you do it because it is your job, you have to protect your buddies, your base, and because if you don't go do it, no one else will.


You should feel utter contempt.

But you should understand something: it's not so much John Kerry the man. It's all that he stands for.

Namely, the massive Mind F**k he and his minions in VVAW engineered, perhaps the largest mind f**k against honorable men in history.

FDL


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