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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | Uisguex Jack wrote: | I heard Gordon liddy on the radio today say Kerry got off his boat and shot a wounded, unarmed Viet Cong breaking the Geneva Convention. Further he got a Silver Star for this.
Then Drudge has a thing about him actually reenacting his exploits on Super Eight movies, I think Drudge is where Liddy was getting this story. Liddy said we tax payers were footing the bill of these reenactments.
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He was only slightly wounded. He wasn't unarmed. No Geneva Convention rules were broken -- not remotely close. Liddy doesn't know what he's talking about.
There was no re-enacting. Drudge is going to be embarassed again.
Doug |
Doug,
Quick question? How long were you on the ground after the shooting stopped. In other words, did Kerry and his crew have time to film "the reenactment" before you guys loaded up and went home? Having seen just clips of the film, Kerry doesn't seem as if he was very seriously injured that day...if in fact that's when it was filmed.
I think we're safe in saying that Kerry did have the camera, that he bought it in Cam Rahn Bay, and that he took it south with him to An Thoi.
I know you said it was extremely unlikely that they returned later to reenact the action.....so....? |
I don't remember how long we were on the ground after the shooting stopped, but we didn't rush to leave. Remember, I walked the 50-60-70 yards down to where Kerry was, and spoke to him. It was calm then, or I damn sure woulda stayed where I was!
Don't get this day mixed up with the other where we were up that canal -- he wasn't wounded this time.
But yes, I am confident they did whatever filming was done before we left. They (the Vietnamese) were disposing of the stuff in that supply depot, and as I said, it was calm . . . . all the VC were dead or split.
It would have been easy to shoot a few minutes of film -- real easy.
The other time we were up that canal -- March 13 -- we were right across from where the Feb 28 incident occured. But there was shootong that day too, and one of Jim Rassman's Nungs was killed, so I can't see them doing any filming. I mean, they could have done some without getting off the boat, but not with Kerry getting off.
After we were finished up the canal March 13, they dropped us off back at the village. Then they headed back out to the LST (actually, I think it was a cutter that day), but hit those mines a few clicks away, Rassman was blown off the boat, etc.
And one more thing -- of the two pieces of Kerry's film I saw in the CNN piece, just one could have been taken Feb 28 -- it was lush, a lot of greenery. The other, due to what I saw in the background -- pretty barren -- had to be someplace else.
Doug |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Doug,
Sorry, my mistake about Purple Heart #2 it was:
February 20, 1969 Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury – Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh.
At least according to his website.... 
But.....he was walking really well for having taken a piece shrapnel in the leg 8 days before.....
Best always personally....but not politically,
Tom
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Marine's Wife
PO3
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: subject |
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They were showing the re enactment on Fox last night,with the "brave Kerry" leading the charge.
The media kept talking about the "13 Swiftvets"who served WITH him ON HIS boat! He showed up with 13 "vets". but according to all I've been able to read,he can't come up with more than 2.
You've got a chance to speak to the "undecided" at voices. Just go to "Chit Chat." There ARE people waiting to hear from you.
Sundays are usually our slowest day for viewers. This past Sunday,we had over 1400. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed. 
It's been joked about for months. 
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th.
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | | carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th. |
Not a return trip but still re-enacted or posed. Right? 
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th. |
Not a return trip but still re-enacted or posed. Right? |
I haven't seen all of the footage so it's hard to say if it was a complete re-enactment. The sense I have is that on that day, at least, it was probably more of a "here's where it happened" segment.
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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DavidS
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 43
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:54 pm Post subject: Kerry Arriving in Boston |
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In reply to CARPRO: Thanks for the input. As you can tell I'm new to the site.
I didn't serve in Nam but did in Korea and the big one.
I'm trying to learn as much as I can about Kerry's so called war hero status and really appreciate what you guys are doing.
Keep up the good work and keep the heat on Kerry. I'd hate to have him as my C-in-Cheif.
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
I don't think there was anything closely resembling re-enacting.
I'm not sure if I commented about the "re-enacting" on this forum before, and if I did I apologize for repeating myself.
There was an article in the Boston Globe by a guy named Sennott (sp?). I believe he's the one who started this whole thing about re-enacting, but I think it was just sloppy writing. I mean, I don't think there was a political agenda by this guy, he just didn't pay attention to what he was saying!
Someone who read that article, and critized Kerry for what he did in that film, then had an opportunity to see it in it's entirety. He promptly changed his tune. He said that Kerry was hardly in it, and that it wasn't different from what you might see from others who had cameras -- more travelogue, than anything else.
Doug |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: subject |
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| Marine's Wife wrote: | They were showing the re enactment on Fox last night,with the "brave Kerry" leading the charge.
The media kept talking about the "13 Swiftvets"who served WITH him ON HIS boat! He showed up with 13 "vets". but according to all I've been able to read,he can't come up with more than 2.
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OK Marines Wife, we have two choices. 1) You haven't been able to read much, or, 2) Your memory is worse than mine.
I would prefer #2 as it would make me feel better 
Kerry commanded two boats. All but one of his crew -- Steven Gardner -- support him. The others -- Alston, Mederios, Short, Whitlow, Thoreson, Sandusky, etc, support him.
There was one guy of those 13 who served ON a boat, but not Kerry's boat (at least I think he didn't), and that was Wade Sanders.
Doug |
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Sgt-Keeper
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:05 pm Post subject: After action report |
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I really wish Kerry would release the after action reports because a I'm really confused now. This is not an attack on Doug, but up unitl now all I have ever read is that there was one VC with a launcher. Where did "all the rest of the VC were gone" come from? And, where did the Vietnamese clearing up the Depot come from? I thought they had been dropped off 800 yards down river? I can vividly recall every combat action my squad was in. Down to who fired first, approximate # of enemy, & who did what. Of course I wasn't there on the river. I'm just looking for answers. It would be my honor to support a fellow combat vet. But it just doesn't look like it can be this one. How about it Doug. A full after action report, here, in this forum.
Begining to end. Just this one day in time. From the time the motor was started to returning to home port.
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Fix the problem, not the blame.
USMC E5 Nam vet 65-66 |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | | carpro wrote: | I must have missed something.
I never knew there was any doubt that Kerry's videos were re-enacted or posed.
It's been joked about for months. |
Many of them were. The Feb 28th film however was probably taken immediately after the action and was not the result of a return trip for re-enactment.
Why? Because most people that were there at the time recall that no one went back up that particular canal until March 13th. |
Not a return trip but still re-enacted or posed. Right? |
Posed like anyone poses for a photo or video.
Re-enacted? No. I assume we are going by the normal definition of re-enacted. Just because he took a few seconds of himself walking with an M-16 where that incident occured, doesn't mean he's re-enacting anything.
I'm sure, sooner or later, someone else will see the video and say the same thing the other guy did -- that there was nothing all that remarkable about it.
Doug |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: After action report |
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| Sgt-Keeper wrote: | I really wish Kerry would release the after action reports because a I'm really confused now. This is not an attack on Doug, but up unitl now all I have ever read is that there was one VC with a launcher. Where did "all the rest of the VC were gone" come from? And, where did the Vietnamese clearing up the Depot come from? I thought they had been dropped off 800 yards down river? I can vividly recall every combat action my squad was in. Down to who fired first, approximate # of enemy, & who did what. Of course I wasn't there on the river. I'm just looking for answers. It would be my honor to support a fellow combat vet. But it just doesn't look like it can be this one. How about it Doug. A full after action report, here, in this forum.
Begining to end. Just this one day in time. From the time the motor was started to returning to home port. |
This whole "one VC" thing has been to Kerry's detriment. In fact there was one VC killed by Kerry. In fact, there was one VC IN FRONT OF HIS BOAT.
However, there were upwards of 20 at that location.
The 800 yards thing is either a figment of someone's imagination, or a typo.
The other Vietnamese there were the RF/PFs we Army advisors lived with/advised. There were perhaps 50-70 of them there that day, divided up between the three Swift Boats.
But you haven't been reading wrong/missing the story, all this hasn't been mentioned much, if at all. It's mentioned, barely, in Brinkley's Tour of Duty.
Next time you are near a bookstore, stop in and take a look at pages 98-103 for a half-way decent account in the Boston Globe's book, John F. Kerry -- The Complete Biography by the Boston Globe Reporters Who Know Him Best.
He (Michael Kranish wrote the VN portion of the book) mixed a few things up, but all-in-all did a better job of explaining -- more background -- about what happened than Brinkley.
Of course Kranish had more expert assistance than Brinkley
Doug |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: | I don't think there was anything closely resembling re-enacting.
I'm not sure if I commented about the "re-enacting" on this forum before, and if I did I apologize for repeating myself.
There was an article in the Boston Globe by a guy named Sennott (sp?). I believe he's the one who started this whole thing about re-enacting, but I think it was just sloppy writing. I mean, I don't think there was a political agenda by this guy, he just didn't pay attention to what he was saying!
Someone who read that article, and critized Kerry for what he did in that film, then had an opportunity to see it in it's entirety. He promptly changed his tune. He said that Kerry was hardly in it, and that it wasn't different from what you might see from others who had cameras -- more travelogue, than anything else.
Doug |
Wasn't kerry raising the B-40 above his head in triumph in the film????? |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: | Don't get this day mixed up with the other where we were up that canal -- he wasn't wounded this time.
But yes, I am confident they did whatever filming was done before we left. They (the Vietnamese) were disposing of the stuff in that supply depot, and as I said, it was calm . . . . all the VC were dead or split.
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Why all the sudden are you so confident? You've said before on this topic that you had no idea when Kerry had returned to do his filming.
Quoting you from 12/10/2002:
"'Later' could have been the same day. It also could have been several days or weeks later. I still seriously doubt it was the next day."
Kerry is on record of saying he "had returned," meaning he left and came back. According Div. 11 ops for March he was idle from March 2 thru March 10th, so he had the time on his hands to jump on his boat and make a day run back to the site. |
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