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kate
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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 Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Navy Wife, re Hildy's posts have seen them
| Quote: | | Her brain had suffered enormous damage from the heart attack. As time passed, her brain further deteriorated -- to the point where much if not most of her cerebral cortex (the portion of the brain that controls conscious thought, among other things) was literally gone, replaced by spinal fluid. |
As I undertsand it, she has only had CT Scans, which are not definitve for this type of diagnosis. She would need an MRI, and /or a PET scan, which her 'husband' has refused to allow.  gotta question why he refuses to allow them
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LewWaters
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Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I realize that, in this case, I may be one of the few persons on this Forum that believes she should be let go |
NavyWife, if her body were kept functioning soley by artificial means, I'd be inclined to agree. If her wishes had been made known to more people than just her husband and his family, I'd be inclined to agree. If the medical community were more in agreement on her condition, I'd still be inclined to agree.
But, several have come forward alleging abuse, both before and after her "collapse." Their testimony has been denied and ignored. Their testimony includes him wishing her death and complete refusal to allow any attempts at rehabilitative therapy, after receiving somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.2 million dollars, earmarked for her rehabilitative therapy and care.
Instead of being spent on care and therapy, attorney's fighting to end her life have received the bulk of that money, approved by what is supposed to be a non-biased Judge, Greer.
There is much speculation as to just how she got in this condition and so far as I can see, there has been no real investigation. However, a Neurosurgeon, appointed by the court to examine Terri, has stated her injuries are not consistent with a collapse or heart attack. Medical records from the beginning state heart attack was ruled out, according to Dr. Hammesfehr, the court appointed neurosurgeon. He did state her neck injuries are consistent with strangulation. His recommendations to treatment and therapy were disregarded.
The main doctor stating she is in a persistent vegetative state is a known professional witness travelling the country to further the cause of euthanasia. So is the husband attorney, Felos. The judge has connections to the hospice. The husband states his wife died 15 years ago and he has moved on to another woman and children by her. Yet, he also claims to love Terri, in the public eye.
To me there are more than enough red flags raised to merit an investigation, long overdue, as to her true condition and future possibilities. What is going on there may be legal, but is it right? Is it just? Once she is dead, whether there is any money left over or not, nothing more can be done for her. It's too late for anyone to ascertain if it really is her wish or not. In the mean time, society moves one step closer, legally, to a judge deciding what is quality of life and who gets to live or die, based on his beliefs and some written law passed to ease the burden of society. Germany started a similar program even before Hitler came to power and look where it ended up.
All that is being asked for is unbiased persons to actually make attempts to determine her true will and true condition, not the husbands or the parents or the pro-euthanasia crowd.
Starve a dog and you go to jail. Starve a handicapped woman in Florida and you are a hero. If this is such a peaceful and painless manner to "let her go," why is it outlawed for all others?
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minnie presley
Commander
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 307
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: terri |
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| this is proof the democrats will kill you off if you are handicapped, beware all amerivcans with disabilities, if they ever get power back in this country, right now a bunch of misfits are holding a conference, I cannot bear to watch it, they need to be outed in 2006, lets keep reminding americans what is happening today |
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xleatherneck
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy wife wrote: | The case of Terri Schiavo is tragic indeed, and when all this publicity began, I felt that I wanted to read more about the early trials and the evidence in her case that got us where we are. I realize that, in this case, I may be one of the few persons on this Forum that believes she should be let go--especially when I read the part that is in bold.
| Quote: | | Her brain had suffered enormous damage from the heart attack. As time passed, her brain further deteriorated -- to the point where much if not most of her cerebral cortex (the portion of the brain that controls conscious thought, among other things) was literally gone, replaced by spinal fluid. Doctors hired by Terri's husband say the deterioration of Terri's brain left her without thoughts or feelings, that the damage is irreversible, and that Terri's life-like appearance is merely the result of brain stem activity -- basically involuntary reflexes we all have. |
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This presupposes that the cerebral cortex is the causal determinant of consciousness...something which, as far as I know, is still an open question not only in philosophy, but in science as well.
If we are to believe that Theresa Schiavo can not exhibit cognitive behavior because it contradicts a known truth, then surely, someone can direct me to this scientific proof that we have a mathematical model of the mechanism of consciousness...yes?
Otherwise, all we have is a correlation to the cerebral cortex which may or may not be causal, and if we are to put a woman to death based upon this evidence, then we damn well better be basing it upon a scientifc truth. Anything less is unacceptable.
Furthermore, those neurologists who are of the opinion that the cerebral cortex is the causal determinant of consciousness, are basing their prognosis soley upon the medical records, and not upon direct observation of Theresa's behavior, which if she were to be truly cognitive, would constitute a dissonant observation since it would conflict with something they already hold to be true.
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minnie presley
Commander
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 307
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: terri |
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| I disagree with you the only doctors who have seen her are the ones her husband brought in, she has never had a mri, if he is so sure she cannot be saved then why is he stopping other doctors from examing her, I have a great neice who is be9ing feed through a tube cannot walk or talk since birth, but she goes to special scool she is being taught to walk and receiving speech therapy,but she knows her family and resonds to music, identifys objects, their is no way our family would want to end her life, nobody has that right, and all we have is the word of a man who wants her gone so he can live the good life |
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: Three men |
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Actually, there are three "men" that want her gone. Judge Adolph Greer, attorney Geroge Felon and so-called husband.
If Terri weren't Jewish, would these guys be so driven to kill her? There has to be a reason for their intensity other than to shut her up. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Amos, Terri is Catholic, not Jewish.
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Times Publishing Company
St. Petersburg Times (Florida)
February 17, 1991, Sunday, City Edition
St. Petersburg Beach has special day for coma victim
This city has proclaimed today Terri Schiavo day.
Last year Mrs. Schiavo, 27, suffered a loss of potassium in her body that caused her heart to stop beating and resulted in a coma. She underwent surgery, performed by Dr. Yoshio Hosobuchi of the University of California at San Francisco in December, to implant a stimulator in her brain.
The brain stimulator implant was a success, said her husband, Mike. Mrs. Schiavo is slowly emerging from the coma at the Mediplex Medical Center, a neurological care center in Bradenton, he said. She will undergo at least a year of speech, occupational and physical therapy.
A Feb. 9 Valentine's dance, sponsored by the Vina Del Mar Island Association, raised $1,575 for the Theresa Schiavo Trust Fund.
To contribute to Terri's trust fund, send a check payable to the Theresa Schiavo Trust Fund to First Union National Bank, 5250 East Bay Drive, Clearwater 34624.
So, what happened after this bit of good news?? My guess is that he settled his lawsuit and then wanted to get rid of her before her care ate up all of the funds. She was put in this Hispice as terminally ill so the government would pay for her care instead of him. The stipulation being that she had to be declared PVS.
What a jerk, I hope he suffers when he gets to hell!!
SBD |
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srmorton
PO2
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Speaker Hastert had to adjourn the House today without voting because
that jerk Robert Wexler (D-FL) whom I am sure everyone remembers
from the Bush vs. Gore 2000 fight was going to object to the vote because
there was not a quorum. Hastert will most likely reconvene the House just
after midnight as soon as enough House members show up to have a
quorum. Why do the Dems want to be on the side of a husband" and a
blind judge who are determined to starve a helpless woman to death???
Another Democrat who is objecting is from Oregon. He apparently feels
such a bill will endanger his state's assisted suidcide law. While the Dems
are accusing the Republicans of trying to help Terri just to appeal to the
"Christian right", they are playing politics with Terri's life!
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The brain stimulator implant was a success, said her husband, Mike. Mrs. Schiavo is slowly emerging from the coma |
| Quote: | | So, what happened after this bit of good news?? My guess is that he settled his lawsuit and then wanted to get rid of her |
your guess seems right on SBD....and it took him all of 3 months
see http://www.terrisfight.org/ Timeline
1990
Feb - Terri Collapses in her home
May - Terri discharged from Humana Hospital in St Petersburg, Florida.
Dec - Terri taken to California for experimental implant
1991
Feb - Terri moved to home with husband.
Jan - Terri moved to Bradenton Mediplex Rehabilitation Center.
Apr - Terri's condition is assessed as improving.
Apr - Terri's husband advised to move her to Gainesville Rehabilitation Center to receive advanced therapy to continue Terri's recovery.
Jul - Terri moved to Sable Palms Nursing Home.
1992
Aug - Terri awarded $250,000 in malpractice settlement.
Nov - Terri awarded $1.4 million in malpractice trial.
Nov - Michael Schiavo awarded $600,000 in malpractice trial.
1993
Feb - Michael Schiavo denies recommended rehabilitation treatment.
Feb - Schiavo and Terri's parents have falling out regarding lack of therapy for Terri.
Feb - Schiavo withholds medical information from Terri's parents.
Feb - Schiavo posts Do not Resuscitate order in Terri's medical chart.
Jun - Schiavo threatens Schindler family with lawsuit.
Aug - Schiavo orders medical staff not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection.
Sep - Bob and Mary Schindler petition courts to remove Schiavo as Terri's guardian.
Nov - Schiavo admits in deposition that he knew withholding treatment of infection could result in Terri's death
more....
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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If memory serves me correctly, in 1998 he suddenly remembered she once said she wouldn't want to be kept alive and filed to have her starved to death then. 
I've heard several on his side saying to place Terri in God's hands. Starving and dehydrating her isn't placing her in God's hands at all. That's keeping her in mans hands and sentencing her to a cruel and heinous death.
From Dr. Hammesfahrs report of September 2002;
| Quote: | I was asked to examine Terri Schiavo per the request of the Second District Court of Appeal. They requested that current information about her present medical condition be obtained. They also requested that an evaluation be performed to ascertain treatment options.
In the Emergency Room, a possible diagnosis of heart attack was briefly entertained, but then dismissed after blood chemistries and serial EKG's did not show evidence of a heart attack.
In the spring of 2000, three physicians, including Dr. Jay Carpenter, who is a former Chief of Medicine at Morton Plant Hospital, filed affidavits after observing Ms. Schiavo. All three physicians stated that it is visually apparent that Ms Schiavo is able to swallow and, in fact, does swallow her own saliva.
The patient continued with no physical therapy, communication or speech therapy, or routine medical screening evaluations and treatment such as dental care, mammography, gynecological exams or pap smears during this time.
Spasticity generally is due to neurological injuries, and is aggravated by lack of physical therapy and muscle stretching.
Alertness: The patient was alert throughout essentially the entire exam.
Responsiveness: The patient would immediately respond to sound, tone of voice and to touch and pain.
This is not a reflexive movement. With respect to her lower leg, we were able to clearly show that on videotape. I had her push her lower leg against my hand; my hand was on the top of her leg. Removing my hand suddenly, allowed her leg to suddenly continue voluntarily rising up and be seen on videotape.
Sensory Exam: The patient was tested to light touch, pressure, and sharp touch and pain in all four extremities and on her face. The pain portion in the extremities was conducted by pinching the nail beds of her hands and feet. She clearly feels pain as the videotapes show.
Impression:
The patient is not in coma.
She is alert and responsive to her environment.
She responds to specific people best.
She tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise.
She responds negatively to poor tone of voice.
She responds to music.
She differentiates sounds from voices.
She differentiates specific people's voices from others.
She differentiates music from stray sound.
She attempts to verbalize.
She has voluntary control over multiple extremities
She can swallow.
She is partially blind
She is probably aphasic and has a degree of receptive aphasia.
She can feel pain.
On this last point, it is interesting to observe that the records from Hospice show frequent medication administered for pain by staff.
Interestingly, I have seen this pattern of mixed brain (cerebral) and spinal cord findings in a patient once before, a patient who was asphyxiated. |
After requesting this examination of Terri, the same courts pushing her to die today rejected and ignored his findings in favor of a pro-euthanasia doctors 10 minute exam.
I'm hoping someone ignores the "letter of the law" down there and investigates and finds out what is really happening to this poor lady.
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vet_supporter
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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The media really should report the actual facts in this case:
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally
A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.
Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:
"At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag. [read article]
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/20/102601.shtml
I would just like to say to the people that want to let her "go", death by starvation is cruel and unusual punishment. You can't do that to a convicted murderer and you can't do that to an animal. The fact that you can say it is ok shows you have no conscience. |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I saw some talking head defense attorney contributor on CNN this morning putting the spin on this in the husband's favor. She said that he has 'promised' to give the million bucks to charity...really? Is it in an escrow account? Is this is writing?
The anchor kept asking why not agree to an MRI, at least she got that point out there. I can't understand how anyone can't see this the way we do - that starvation is torture - murder. And to top it off, I don't even think they know for certain that she can't actually receive liquid food through her mouth...
Seems insane...these same liberal folks don't want Dick Cheney to hook a fish and then throw it back?!!? |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone else find this disgusting??? Look at the bottom left of the screen shot for More Headlines.
"Headstone Carvers Proud of their Work"
Does that qualify as a Headline to you or is it only a headline when the top story is about Republicans being stalled trying to save someone's life!!
Unbelievable!!
Live page from screenshot
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=598477
SBD |
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minnie presley
Commander
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 307
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:35 am Post subject: teri |
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| I hope the voters in florida remember the congreeman and senators from florida who are trying to kill terri, elections are coming up in 2006, maybe someone can get an e-mail address or phone number for these two losers, so we can let them know what we think, after this is over that hospice should be investigated and possibly shut down. |
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