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RogerRabbit
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 748
Location: Oregon
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 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:19 am Post subject: Update - Satellite recording proves Sgrena is a LIAR ! |
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http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7491280/
| Quote: | Italian negotiator failed to coordinate rescue with U.S. military
By Jim Miklaszewski
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 7:37 p.m. ET April 13, 2005
BAGHDAD - The friendly fire shooting at a U.S. military checkpoint last month in Baghdad wounded Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena and killed intelligence agent Nicola Calipari.
Now, NBC News has learned that a preliminary report from a joint U.S.-Italian investigation has cleared the American soldiers of any wrongdoing and provides new details into the shooting.
Intelligence agent Calipari had just negotiated Sgrena's release from Iraqi kidnappers on March 4 when the two and a driver headed for the Baghdad airport in a compact rental car.
It was dark when the Italians turned onto a ramp leading to the airport road where the U.S. military had set up a temporary checkpoint.
The investigation found the car was about 130 yards from the checkpoint when the soldiers flashed their lights as a warning to stop. But the car kept coming and, at 90 yards, warning shots were fired. At 65 yards, when the car failed to stop, the soldiers used lethal force — a machine gun burst that killed Calipari and wounded Sgrena and the driver.
Senior U.S. military officials say it took only about four seconds from the first warning to the fatal shots, but insist the soldiers acted properly under the current rules of engagement.
The investigation failed, however, to resolve one critical dispute: The Americans claim the car was racing toward the checkpoint at about 50 miles per hour, the Italians say it was traveling at a much slower speed.
In Italy, agent Calipari was given a state funeral, but the investigation found he himself may have committed a fatal error. He reportedly chose not to coordinate his movements with the U.S. military for fear it would jeopardize his efforts to free the Italian hostage.
Sgrena, meanwhile, disputes the military's account and says she has little confidence the investigation will reveal the truth.
As a result of the incident, the U.S. military will review its procedures regarding the use of lethal force at checkpoints, but senior military officials say they'll take no action that would put American soldiers at greater risk. |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | preliminary report from a joint U.S.-Italian investigation has cleared the American soldiers |
great news! keywords...joint investigation
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Yippppeeee!!! |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | NBC News
Updated: 7:37 p.m. ET April 13, 2005 |
Although rarely, sometimes the MSM works in our favor. This actually came out only moments before she went on 60 minutesII calling us liars   |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:09 am Post subject: Soldiers Exhonerated - Sgrena is a %$^# LIAR! |
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HA! Soldiers Exhonerated - Sgrena is a %$^# LIAR!
*****************
A US satellite reportedly recorded a checkpoint shooting in Iraq last month, enabling investigators to reconstruct how fast a car carrying a top Italian intelligence official and a freed hostage was traveling when US troops opened fire.
The report, which aired Thursday on CBS News, said US investigators concluded from the recording that the car was traveling at a speed of more than 60 miles (96 km) per hour.
Giuliana Sgrena has said the car was traveling at a normal speed of about 30 miles an hour when the soldiers opened fired, wounding her and killing Nicola Calipari, the Italian agent who had just secured her release from a month's captivity.
US soldiers said at the time of the March 4 incident that the car approached at a high rate of speed and that they fired only after it failed to respond to hand signals, flashing bright lights and warning shots.
The conflicting accounts were among a number of differences that have prevented US and Italian authorities from reaching agreement on what happened.
CBS, citing Pentagon officials, said the satellite recording enabled investigators to reconstruct the event without having to rely on the eyewitness accounts.
It said the soldiers manning the checkpoint first spotted the Italian car when it was 137 yards (meters) away. By the time they opened fire and brought the car to a halt, it was 46 yards (meters) away. CBS said that happened in less than three seconds, which meant the car had to be going over 60 miles an hour. CBS said Italian investigators refused to accept that the Americans were justified in shooting so quickly, arguing among other things that the checkpoint was not properly marked.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050429/pl_afp/italyusiraqsatellite_050429162837
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Soldiers Exhonerated - Sgrena is a %$^# LIAR! |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | HA! Soldiers Exhonerated - Sgrena is a %$^# LIAR!
***************** |
Oh thanks so much for posting this! I've been wanting that lying woman taken down so bad ...
Now will Italy keep up the fight??  and if so, to what purpose? They were our allies, why this non-acceptance of the evidence?? Maybe they can't find an "honorable" way to admit they were wrong considering they had what, a state funeral over this? Maybe they feel stupid about all the love they gushed on the little communist...
This incident has gone on long enough. They need to apologize and move on. |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the update, EJ.
We all had it pegged long ago. We knew Sgrena was lying just by
analyzing her OWN words in her first interview after the incident.
In her account she said they were racing so fast that the driver was
almost losing control and she was thinking how ironic that she would be
killed in a car crash after just being rescued. And then, a hail of gunfire!!
She said nothing of slowing down.
But of course the MSM never scrutinized her account for lies.
She was a Commie buddy, and their focus was all on blaming our
U S troops.
The MSM is still stuck in their Vietnam mentality.
As it was then, it still is today--they obsess on promoting the idea that
American soldiers do BAD things.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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tony54
PO2
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 369
Location: cleveland, ohio
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Sgrena is a "communist rat".
She went to Iraq to get a story, not a positive story, but a smearful negative story on the American Troops.
When she scrounged around and didn't find a negative story to report, she created her own, from the kidnapping to the shooting it was all set up. |
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FreeFall
LCDR
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 421
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the U. S. Government's Report on the incident:
| Quote: | ~snip~IV. THE INCIDENT AT BP 541
A. (U) Introduction
(U) This section examines the shooting incident at BP 541 on the night of 4 March 2005. The section begins with a description of the site and then a brief look at the individuals involved. The mission assigned to the 1-69 IN Soldiers is detailed. The incident itself is then described. The events immediately following the shooting are addressed next. Following this is a look at the forensic evidence. The section concludes with findings and recommendations. ~~snip~~ |
It's a very long report and gives all the facts.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)
Last edited by shawa on Mon May 02, 2005 10:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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rparrott21
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 760
Location: Mckinney, Texas
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I never thought her hostage video was believable.. |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmm.
NY Times is not happy with the exoneration.
Notice they don't even mention the satellite photos PROVE that our
soldiers acted properly. They only say that the U.S. Military SAID so.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/01/international/middleeast/01italian.html
| Quote: | Ex-Hostage's Italian Driver Ignored Warning, U.S. Says
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. and ROBERT F. WORTH
Published: May 1, 2005
BAGHDAD, Iraq, April 30 - The car carrying the Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena that was struck with a deadly hail of gunfire as it sped toward Baghdad International Airport on March 4 ignored warnings from American soldiers who used a spotlight, a green laser pointer and warning shots to try to stop it as it approached a checkpoint, the American military said in a report released Saturday evening.
The gunfire killed Nicola Calipari, an Italian intelligence agent who was in the back seat with Ms. Sgrena. The driver and Ms. Sgrena were wounded. Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, the ground commander in Iraq, has approved a recommendation that soldiers involved in the shooting not be disciplined, the military said.
The report's exoneration of the soldiers, which was made public last week, angered Italian officials and threatened to further inflame relations between the United States and Italy, one of its staunchest allies in the war in Iraq. The findings have created a political problem for the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, who faces a public upset by the incident at a time when his own fortunes are sagging.
Italy has kept 3,000 troops in Iraq, but Mr. Berlusconi has suggested that Italy might begin withdrawing them by September.
Italian officials have disputed preliminary accounts of the shooting, provided last month by the United States, and Italy is pressing its own investigation. Ms. Sgrena has also challenged the United States' account, saying the car approached the checkpoint at a moderate speed and was not given any warnings.
Ms. Sgrena, a reporter for the left-wing daily newspaper Il Manifesto, was abducted Feb. 4 in Baghdad and released March 4, less than one hour before she and her rescuers made their trip to the airport. American officials have said the checkpoint was established temporarily to help provide security for the United States ambassador, John D. Negroponte, who was meeting with the top military commander in Iraq. Mr. Negroponte has since been appointed director of national intelligence.
The incident helped focus attention on the risks that Iraqis face at American checkpoints, where human rights groups say many Iraqis have been accidentally wounded or killed.
The report, which had many blacked-out parts, is the American military's first detailed account of the events. It asserts that the Italians ignored repeated warnings from American soldiers as they sped onto a part of the Baghdad airport road where soldiers are on a constant state of high alert because of the extraordinary risk of suicide car bombs and other insurgent attacks.
According to the report, 11 bullets fired by one American soldier hit the Italians' car, killing Mr. Calipari, after the car failed to heed the warnings. The car was traveling about 50 miles per hour - faster than other cars that night - as it approached the checkpoint and did not slow until struck by the bullets, the report said.
The driver "was dealing with multiple distractions including talking on the phone while driving, the conversation in the back seat, trying to listen for threats, driving on a wet road, focusing on tasks to be accomplished, the need to get to the airport, and the excited and tense atmosphere in the car," the report found. He shouted, "They are attacking us" into his phone when the firing began, the report said, adding that it was "highly unlikely" that any shots were fired after the car stopped. The fusillade lasted four seconds, it said.
The soldier who fired the shots complied with the military's rules of engagement, the report concluded. "After operating the spotlight, and perceiving the oncoming vehicle as a threat, he fired to disable it and did not intend to harm anyone," it said.
The report also asserted that the United States military "was totally unaware of the recovery and transport of Ms. Sgrena" until after the shooting. It said the troops stationed at the checkpoint were on their first full day on shift there and "lacked experience in issuing operational orders and in battle tracking security forces" at checkpoints.
The report also found that a senior commander in the American-led alliance who was at a military base near the site of the shooting, identified only as a major general, was aware something was under way involving the journalist. Just 20 minutes before the shooting, the commander confirmed to his aide, an unidentified captain, that an operation was under way. But the general said, "It is best if no one knows."
While finding that the soldiers were not culpable, the report recommended taking steps to better inform Iraqis and other drivers about how to approach checkpoints, echoing calls made by critics since the incident. The report also recommended that the military use more signs and enhanced lighting to warn drivers that they are approaching a checkpoint. |
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Rdtf wrote: | | Quote: | NBC News
Updated: 7:37 p.m. ET April 13, 2005 |
Although rarely, sometimes the MSM works in our favor. This actually came out only moments before she went on 60 minutesII calling us liars |
This is very rare. I am sure many people within the DoD did not want our satellite abilities broadcast throughout the world. And it had nothing to do with the MSM, but rather the Pentagon giving a A-OK to classified military abilities to be broadcast and of course our enemies are going to publish it. The MSM wasn't covering this as our friend.
I will agree that this did work in our favor.
This has a Rummy protect the troops smell to it. Regardless, someone within the DoD cares about that soldier and our country a whole lot.
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"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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American Military Names Public!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4504589.stm
Italy media reveals Iraq details
By David Willey
BBC News in Rome
Italian media have published classified sections of an official US military inquiry into the accidental killing of an Italian agent in Baghdad.
The 40-page report was censored by the Pentagon before being officially published on Saturday.
Italy has refused to accept the US report's findings and is to publish its own version of events later this week.
Details of the official report were published in newspapers on Sunday with censored material restored in full.
Missing text
A Greek medical student at Bologna University who was surfing the web early on Sunday found that with two simple clicks of his computer mouse he could restore censored portions of the report.
He passed the details to Italian newspapers which immediately put out the full text on their own websites.
The missing text contains the names and ranks of all of the American military personnel involved in the killing of Nicola Calipari, the Italian agent who was given a state funeral and awarded Italy's highest medal of valour.
It also reveals the rules of engagement in operation at the military checkpoint near Baghdad airport which have been contested by the Italian authorities.
The censored sections include recommendations that the American military modify their checkpoint procedures to give better and clearer warning signs to approaching vehicles.
Entire pages of the US report had been blackened out
Italian media have published classified sections of an official US military inquiry into the accidental killing of an Italian agent in Baghdad.
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rdtf wrote
| Quote: | The missing text contains the names and ranks of all of the American military personnel involved in the killing of Nicola Calipari, the Italian agent who was given a state funeral and awarded Italy's highest medal of valour.
It also reveals the rules of engagement in operation at the military checkpoint near Baghdad airport which have been contested by the Italian authorities.
The censored sections include recommendations that the American military modify their checkpoint procedures to give better and clearer warning signs to approaching vehicles. |
Hmmm.
The Report I posted (See above)yesterday wasn't missing that information.
You have to Scroll through quite a bit to:
IV. THE INCIDENT AT BP 541
A. (U) Introduction
(U) This section examines the shooting incident at BP 541 on the night of 4 March 2005. The section begins with a description of the site and the incident itself is then described. The events immediately following the shooting are addressed next. Following this is a look at the forensic evidence. The section concludes with findings and recommendations.
B. (U) Site Description
(U) BP 541 was located on the on-ramp from southbound Route Vernon onto westbound Route Irish approximately six miles west of the International Zone in Baghdad. Specifically, BP 541 (Grid 38S MB3571 8371) was located at the intersection of Route Vernon and Route Irish, which is the second intersection on Route Irish east of Baghdad International Airport (BIAP). The road leading to the on-ramp begins where the westernmost lane of Route Vernon separates from the highway. The on-ramp itself begins near a side street that borders the edge of a housing area on the west side of the road. This point is approximately 640 meters south of the nearby underpass on Route Vernon, and approximately 380 meters from where the road to the on-ramp splits from Route Vernon. (Annexes 141K, 144K).
(U) At the interchange of the on-ramp and Route Vernon, the highway becomes an overpass extending over Route Irish. Three separate concrete Jersey barriers are located in the on-ramp to Route Irish. The barriers are arranged with the first two barriers on the right hand side of the on-ramp and the third one on the left hand side of the on-ramp, but not in a serpentine configuration, as one approaches from the north. The first barrier is approximately 75 meters from the concrete abutment of the Route Vernon overpass near the beginning of the on-ramp. The second barrier is approximately 37 meters beyond the first barrier (112 meters from the concrete abutment). The third barrier is approximately 31 meters beyond the second barrier (143 meters from the abutment). This third, or southernmost, barrier is approximately 80 meters from where the on-ramp merges with westbound Route Irish. The total length of the on-ramp is approximately 223 meters. (Annexes 142K, 144K).
(U) From the vantage point of the southernmost barrier, Route Irish is directly south of the position with a 50-meter median separating the eastbound and westbound lanes. To the north and northwest of the position, there is a large open area that is littered with garbage and debris. The field extends from the bottom of the on-ramp to the side street and west. Immediately beyond the side street, approximately 150 meters from the southernmost barrier, is a large housing community with windows and porches that overlook the on-ramp. There is a clear line of sight from the houses to the on-ramp. The
23 UNCLASSIFIED UNCLASSIFIED
Route Vernon overpass stands several stories higher than the on-ramp and runs parallel to the on-ramp until the on-ramp curves to the southwest, approximately 50 meters from the beginning of the on-ramp. The overpass is supported by large cylinder concrete supports. The ground under the overpass is also littered with garbage and debris. (Annexes 16K, 143K).
(U) The road itself is concrete. There is a slight elevation gain between the beginning of the on-ramp and its merger with Route Irish. The curve is banked slightly. The on-ramp, but for the Jersey barriers, is wide enough to accommodate two vehicles abreast of each other, i.e., it is two-lanes wide. (Annexes 16K, 19K).
11. (U) Mr. Nicola Calipari was an Italian military intelligence officer with the rank of Major General who was in charge of the recovery of Ms. Sgrena on 4 March 2005. (Annex 104C).
12. (U) Mr. Andrea Carpani is an Italian military intelligence officer with the rank of Major in the Carabinieri with years of experience working and driving in Baghdad. He was driving the car involved in the incident on 4 March 2005. (Annex 104C).
13. (U) Ms. Giuliana Sgrena is an Italian journalist for Il Manifesto. She had been kidnapped and held hostage in Baghdad for one month at the time of her release on the night of 4 March 2005. (Annex 103C).
D. (U) The Mission
It continues with Incident report describing everything that happened.
Post incident forensics, measurements, exam of car, trajectory analysis,
number of rounds. Even post incident traffic samples to see what the average speeds
of vehicles using Route Vernon/Route Irish.
Then on to Coordination: to determine what organizations were aware
of the transport of Sgrena, to describe that no one in the field knew.
Lots of Recommendations, too.
From the Italian newspaper:
| Quote: | | Italy has refused to accept the US report's findings and is to publish its own version of events later this week. |
This is the crux of it!! They cannot accept an exoneration of the U.S.
We are only to believe their version.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)
Last edited by shawa on Mon May 02, 2005 10:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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