SwiftVets.com

[Jarhead]

Please forgive me if this has recently been posted somewhere on the site but I searched and count not find it. I also don't remember seeing the comments from these two Naval Captains during the election either concerning their statements that John kerry received a less than honorable discharge. The topic has resurfaced over at FR so I thought I would post a link. If this is old information that I missed, then again I apologize.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1406760/posts?page=1
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Semper Fi'
Jarhead
USMC 71-74

"I am a bold Internationalist, I will only disperse American troups around the world at the discretion of the United Nations" - John Kerry

$UCK THE CORRUPT UNITED NATIONS - I am a Jarhead and I approve this message

[Navy wife]

Jar Head,
This topic was discussed at length on this forum before the election, but every lead went up into smoke, and time simply ran out. It was discouraging to see how little could be documented.

I read the thread on Free Republic that you linked to and found some unusually uninformed folks posting. The blogs were full of this stuff, but the MSN would not touch it with a 10 foot pole because, in my opinion, they wanted Kerry to win so much they were not about to investigate him in depth as they did George Bush. Little Green Footballs had some good threads about the discharge.

The two Navy JAG Captains were for real and I personally think they knew what they were talking about.

One of the FReepers mentioned that Kerry, in order to get a top secret clearance as a senator would have had to open his records; however, it is my understanding that those rules, strangely enough, do not apply to our senators. The rules apply to their staffs, but not them if I remember correctly.

Hope this helps!
Navy Wife

[kate]

Jarhead,

to review the discussions on this topic...check out this link from the R&R forum

**** Kerry's Service - Forum Archives
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19110

to make searching a bit easier
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one of..... We The People

[Me#1You#10]

I recall when the above referenced declarations were posted here. As they were unverifiable at the time and to protect the integrity of this forum, we elected to disallow their publication pending verification of authenticity and they were deleted.

While I may certainly be mistaken, I find it difficult to believe that those who were bird-dogging the SVPT/Kerry controversy (such as Thomas Lipscomb and several well-respected blogs) wouldn't have investigated and run with this "testimony" had it been deemed legitimate and credible.

Or, perhaps, it was just too close to the election (as I recall) to be properly developed?

(on edit, and thanks to Kate's hard work in collating much of the information in this forum, Thomas Lipscomb did publish an article on 1 Nov citing these revelations. However, with Kerry having lost the election, I don't recall it being developed any further)

[I B Squidly]

#1,

The Rockered Crow got Middendorf, Carter's SecNav to admit Kerry got an "Executive Order of Dismissal' but because of the 'Privacy Act' would not go on the record. Apparently, Nixon didn't want Hanoi John to have the soapbox/martyrdom of Courts Martial and summarily fired his sorry @ss. Lipscome was working on it when the 'al Kaakaa weapons surprise' stole all the oxygen from the media circus tent. In fact, Lipscom's article was likely the reason NYTimes said the Kaakaa story "wouldn't hold" and went to press five days early. Coordinated with the UN and DNC they had planned to co-release the story with "60 Minutes" the Sunday before the election.

Now you'ld think being dismissed by Nixon would be a badge of honor for a lefty but his anti-war position cost Kerry his first congressional race and he's portrayed himself as a hero ever since and tried to hide the VVAW record.
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"KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!"

-Wlm Shakespeare

[jwb7605]

[SBD]

[Navy wife]

Me#1You#10, you are right about your recollections. Everything broke the day before the election. Thomas Lipscomb did his article and Beldar did an incredible job on his blog. However, without someone like Michael Dobbs of the Post getting involved, the chances of it reaching the MSM were miniscule. On Beldar's blog, Middendorf (I believe) is quoted as saying something to the effect that Capt. Sullivan, the JAG officer, was one of the finest officers he knew. That was quite a validation of his credibility, I think.
I would link his blog to you all; however, I can't get it to work!!

Navy Wife

[shawa]

Beldar had a lot of good analysis.

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/10/was_kerrys_orig.html

I have been reading through the comments on this Oct.13/04 Beldarblog
re Lipscomb's article. A lot of interesting points raised, including our own
NavyChief.

[shawa]

I linked to this article in the Harvard Crimson, dated Feb.18,1970 which
says Kerry got an Honorable Discharge the previous month.

A discharge in January, 1970????

This guy must have more discharges than anyone who ever served!!!!

[FireFox]

Waban is a village of Newton, MA. Unless there's another Waban.

[Essayons]

Just a clarification regarding a DD214 and an Honorable Discharge since some of the posts above have them mixed up. And I believe Kerry mixed them up or the author of the Crimson article mixed them up. Either way, just disregard the Crimson article's reference to a Kerry Honorable Discharge." Kerry had his DD214 that shows termination of active service. He was inactive reserves at the time and could not have been issued an Honorable Discharge.

An Honorable Discharge, enlisted or officer, is, in my case, a DD256A (1 May 1950). I have both.

A DD214 is used to indicate termination of active service or a change of status/termination of service "discharge" (enlisted to officer)- there may be other reasons for its use but I am not aware of them.

Termination of active service in my case meant I was issued a DD214 dated 29 August 1969 (with: Character of Servise - Honorable) and transfered to the USAR Control Group (Annual Training) USSAC St. Louis, Missouri.

I was not issued an Honorable Discharge at that time. Nor should I have been issued one.

I never serve a day of active duty in the Reserves. And probably Kerry never served a day of active duty in the the reserves for the same reason as I - there was no need for either of us as there were plenty of hot bodies trying to avoid Veitnam service and the TO&E billets were full at the time.

Possibly the following timeline (mine) will help:

14 September 1967: issued a DD214 and a DD256A. Both forms indicate "honorable discharge" to accept a commission as an officer - E5 to O1. This is a change of status/termination of service.

29 August 1969: issued a DD214 "relieved fom active duty."

30 August 1972: issued a "Letter Orders"' from the Department of the Army' discharge from the USAR. Reason: "Resignation." Type of discharge "Honorable."

30 September 1972: issued a DD256A "Honorable Discharge"

Kerry's Naval paperwork should have an identical paper trail as mine - but it does not.

Supposedly Kerry extended his 6 year commitment (2/66-2/72) by one year to get assigned to the Swift Boats, thus the reference to a discharge dated 2/16/73.

Where is Kerry's 2/16/73 discharge (DD256A)?

That IS the question.

Hey, it is after 8PM and my day started just before 5AM so I apologize should my words be confusing.

Regards,
Dick
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Essayons - Let us try - the code of the Army Engineer. Sappers First, the code of the Combat Engineer.

[kate]

[Beatrice1000]

If there wasn’t a dishonorable discharge or a separation of some kind, what could have been the reason? How did he get away with all his activities? Note that going back to 1967, the FBI had been copying the Naval Investigative Service Office (NISO) about the VVAW. (look thru the VVAW FBI files at wintersoldier.com)

In looking at some of kerry’s military history docs, I ran across one that is interesting only in a minor way as it doesn’t contain much, but it tells a lot about kerry’s capacity as LIAR and GREAT PRETENDER/Fraud -- and it ticked me off to think of him filling this out and signing it in spite of all the treachery he was involved in at the time:

October 16, 1970: Document, “Qualifying Questionnaire” (full title is: “Annual Qualifications Questionnaire Inactive Duty Reserve Officer”).

--The form lists him as LTJG (but he had been promoted to LT in 1/70, must be a typo?).
--Still lives in Groton, MA.
--Has no primary/secondary dependents. (doesn’t mention that he’d gotten married…)
--Speaks French and some German.
--College: Yale, BA-Polit. Sci. (specializing in “Am. Govt.” – that’s an understatement)
--Description of Duties/responsibilities: (left blank or redacted, hard to tell)
--Employer: “Self-employed.”
--Business: “Writer”
--Civic Responsibilities/Community Activities: “Was Congressional Candidate Congress – 3rd C.D., Mass.”
(he forgot to add that he ran on an “anti-war platform”….)

And yes, by Oct. 16, 1970, he certainly had been a busy little bee with his “community activities” and “writing” (was he using his “writing” in any of the anti-war flyers, leaflets, VVAW exec. committee docs, WSI announcements?) – but there was oh so much more than merely running for Congress. Here’s a reminder of some of the things he left out of his report to the Navy:

(data from discharge from active duty NR on 1/3/70 to this annual report dated 10/16/70):

(excerpts from wintersoldier.com Timeline, FBI files & elsewhere; emphasis mine – none of this is new information – just restating here in the context of reading his above 1970 Annual Report)

--02/13/70: (Newspaper article-2/11/04): John Kerry: “….I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations,…” (& that he wants to almost eliminate CIA activity).
Source/Defunct: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=357339
(oops-- seems that the above oft-linked Crimson interview article is gone! – hmm-mm – how many more kerry-related items will continue to “disappear” from the net?… I did, however, find the article copied HERE.)

---5/07/70: Kerry appears on Cavett Show – speaking in opposition to U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

---5/23/70: Kerry marries Julia Stimson Thorne in NY.

---Late May 1970: John & Julia Kerry travel to Paris on a private trip. Kerry meets with Madam Binh, the Foreign Minister of the (PRG), the political wing of the Vietcong -- and with reps of Hanoi who were in Paris for the peace talks.

---Late May, 1970—June 1970: Kerry joins VVAW. Al Hubbard soon appoints Kerry to the VVAW's Exec. Committee.

---Late May-Aug., 1970: The Winter Soldier Investigation has been planned.

---Sept. 1970: VVAW stages Operation RAW march & rally in Valley Forge, PA. Kerry gives a speech.

The Sept. 8, 1970 issue of “The Philadelphia Inquirer,” quoted one JOHN KERRY as stating, “We are here because we, above all others, have earned the right to criticize the war in Southeast Asia. We are here to say that it is not patriotism to ask Americans to die for a mistake and that it is not patriotic to allow a President to talk about not being the first President to lose a war and using us as pawns in that game.” SOURCE

NOTE: A 9/10/70 FBI report (Sec.01, p. 168) specifically references Kerry in relation to the above newspaper quote. This is the first time I note him mentioned in the FBI files with regards to Operation RAW (except for the flyers: there was an FBI report of 8/18/70 that contained a flyer without Kerry’s name, and then a Report of 8/25/70 that had a flyer with Kerry’s name as a speaker.) This particular 9/10/70 Report that mention’s Kerry’s name does not say who was copied, but a 9/10/70 Report just prior to this was copied to the NISO. They had to have been aware of his activities….

---09/11/70: Kerry at VVAW Exec. Committee meeting: (Joe Urgo, Jan Crumb & Al Hubbard also there): VVAW to: picket against Nat’l. Guard in NY; send Hubbard and Fonda on a speaking tour; sponsor turn-in of war crimes testimony to UN after the Wintersoldier event; generate 1,000 signatures for Winter Soldier by Sep. 23… (and other planned (civic?) activities….)

--09/17/70: VVAW protests the Nat’l Guard's nat’l convention, handing out flyers that read: “The Nat’l Guard Uses Your Tax Dollar: To support the military-industrial complex; To honor war criminals - Westmoreland, Laird, Nixon, etc.; To applaud campus murders by Nat’l. Guard units; To encourage armed attacks on minority communities.”

--09/28/70: FBI Report dated 10/13/70--WSI.: …Source obtained leaflet in office of the VVAW on 9/28/70: “Call to the Winter Soldier Investigation (An Inquiry into U.S. War Crimes in Indo-China)” … “<…> Many of the over 2 million GIs who have served in Vietnam have been forced to employ military tactics which violate the rules of Land Warfare, the Geneva Conventions and Accords, and the Nuremburg Charter.” <…> “We must move to the offensive <…> by amassing testimony and evidence that will conclusively establish, once and for all, that war crimes stem from conscious military policies – not isolated conduct of GIs.” …. Signatures needed by October 10th. (wintersoldier.com, FBI files – Sub A, Sec. 01, pp173-175)

--10/70: (Kerry’s cohorts via VVAW): Jane Fonda, Al Hubbard and Jan Crumb raise money for the VVAW and create new chapters through a nationwide lecture tour covering more than 50 college campuses. Fonda and Mark Lane also plug the VVAW during appearances on the Dick Cavett Show.
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Therefore, to summarize, on 10/16/70, as a Lieutenant in the Naval Reserve, when john kerry signed and turned in his
ho-hum Annual Inactive Duty Reserve Officer Report to the U.S. Navy, his activities, other than “running for Congress” had actually included the following:

He had: told the press he wanted the UN to handle our troops; been on Cavett and spoke against US involvement in Vietnam; gotten married; been to Paris and committed TREASON by meeting with the enemy; joined the VVAW; joined in plans & solicitation for the Wintersoldier investigation; spoke at the VVAWs Operation RAW anti-war rally; spoke out against the President to the press; was involved in a protest at the National Guard convention; and was involved in a VVAW nationwide lecture tour at college campuses. And this is just an overview!– certainly not a definitive study of ALL he was up to in his life as a “self-employed writer” that year – who can ever know…. HOWEVER, what he states on his form for the year 1970 is that he: “ran for Congress.”

I suppose kerry could say that he wasn’t lying or withholding information because after all, none of his activities could properly be listed on the form under “Civic Responsibilities/Community Activities” and, well, -- it is true that there was no category labeled: “Subversive and/or Traitorous activities:”

(On 10/16/70, he was about 3-1/2 mos. away from the WSI and about 6 months away from his infamous Senate Testimony.)

If he continued to fill out these “Annual Qualifications” forms, if they continue up to 1978 (and if not, why not?) – one can only wonder at what they contain – it would be especially interesting to see this imposter’s Annual Report form for 1971….. Also, as indicated, the FBI was copying the NISO with regards to the VVAW for some time – one cannot imagine that they didn’t know about kerry’s activities even at the time this form was filed in 1970. The question remains, what did the Navy do about this traitor in their ranks? kerry expects us to believe they did --- NOTHING? – and that none of his well-documented dishonorable (to say the least) activities made it into any of his military records; and that in the end, this “respectable” LT-NR was simply given an “Honorable” Discharge for time well served? How can that possibly be. (If his record were clean, of course, he would sign the 180…..)

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[kate]