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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: Doubt Accused C.I.A. Operatives Will Stand Trial in Italy |
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Oh. puleeeze!!! The NY Times again! This writer appears to be longing for the extradition of these CIA agents.
(my bolding--a politician or military are immune from extradition, but CIA agents NABBING A TERRORIST can't be an exception. Better they should let him get away, and then when he does his dirty deed, the NYT could b#tch about the CIA's FAILURE to nab him.)
| Quote: | Experts Doubt Accused C.I.A. Operatives Will Stand Trial in Italy
By ADAM LIPTAK
Published: June 27, 2005
WASHINGTON, June 26 - The chances are relatively remote that the 13 people linked to the C.I.A who were ordered arrested by an Italian judge last week will ever stand trial there, experts in international law said Sunday.
The 13 people, charged with illegally seizing an Egyptian cleric on a Milan street two years ago and flying him to Egypt for questioning, are presumed to have left Italy.
If they are indeed Americans and C.I.A. officers and operatives, as described in the arrest warrants, and if they are now in the United States, the American government may in theory be obligated to extradite them. As a practical matter, however, experts said, it is almost inconceivable that the government would turn over agents who had carried out an operation authorized by the United States and meant to combat terrorism.
"There is close to no probability that the United States is going to extradite any of these people to Italy, notwithstanding the letter of any treaty," said Peter J. Spiro, who teaches international law at the University of Georgia. "It's very unlikely that there is going to be any sort of cooperation on this end."
It is not unusual for intelligence operations to violate local laws, but operations like the one at issue here are typically undertaken with at least the tacit blessing of the local government. The government of Silvio Berlusconi has made no official comment on the case.
"If the apprehension and removal, to use those relatively neutral terms, of this individual, were done without the knowledge and authorization of at least some part of the Italian government," said Douglass W. Cassel Jr., who teaches international law at Northwestern University, "then it's a clear violation of international law."
The extradition treaty between the United States and Italy on its face would seem to apply to the crime alleged here. Extradition is required, with few exceptions, where the offense in question gives rise to punishment of more than one year in each country. The13 Americans are accused of the crime of kidnapping, which carries serious penalties in both Italy and the United States.
The treaty contains [exceptions for "political and military offenses," but neither exception fits neatly here.
The Egyptian cleric, Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, is still missing. His family has said that he phoned from Egypt to say he has been repeatedly tortured in Egyptian custody. Before his disappearance, Mr. Nasr had been under investigation on suspicion of possible links to Al Qaeda.
Whatever the formal terms of the extradition treaty, legal experts agreed, it is all but certain that the American government will decline to turn any intelligence officers or agents over. "If you send a United States citizen overseas to carry out a mission," said Ruth Wedgwood, who teaches international law at Johns Hopkins University, "you are not likely then to abandon him."
American officials are likely to invoke any available argument to oppose an extradition request, Professor Cassel said. "I could imagine the United States playing games," Professor Cassel said. "If the extradition request came in the name of the false passport, they could say, 'We have no knowledge of such a person.' "
Of the 13 names mentioned in the warrants of people being sought for arrest, research indicates that 11 may be aliases. Public records show that some of the names received Social Security numbers in the past 10 years and that some had addresses that were post office boxes in Virginia that are known to be used by the C.I.A.
But if the accused are in third countries, many of which have their own extradition treaties and other agreements with Italy, their lives could quickly become complicated.
"One could easily reach the point," Professor Cassel said, "where these individuals find it very hard to travel."
The C.I.A.'s practice of rendition - seizing people and sending them abroad for interrogation - has been the subject of mounting international criticism, especially because some of the countries involved are known to use torture, and has caused a deepening rift between the United States and even some of its strongest allies.
But the issuance of the arrest warrants, by Judge Chiara Nobili of Milan, may not be consistent with the wishes of the government of Mr. Berlusconi.
"What may be most surprising to Americans is that in European countries investigating magistrates are quite independent of the executive branch of the government," Professor Wedgwood said.
The legal experts also said the Italian warrants may add fire to the debate over whether the United States should subject itself to international criminal tribunals. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/27/politics/27milan.html
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160970,00.html
| Quote: |
Dream On, Italy!
Tuesday, June 28, 2005
By John Gibson
If you want to be amused, Google the following words: Italy, CIA, spies, arrest warrants. Up will pop an amazing story.
Italy, or an Italian investigating magistrate, is issuing arrest warrants on 13 CIA operatives who Italy believes kidnapped an Islamic terrorist off the streets of Milan and shipped him to Egypt to be questioned — or to put it bluntly, tortured.
The terrorist is named Nasr Abu (search) something or other and he was operating an Al Qaeda cell out of Milan where he was proselytizing jihad against the U.S. and plotting with fellow travelers to do us harm.
Evidently, the CIA ops went there, bundled him into a van, took him to Aviano Air Force Base (search) and shipped him out of the country.
Sometime later he called his wife and said he'd been kidnapped to Egypt and tortured. Then he disappeared. Nobody's heard from him since.
Think he might be in Gitmo? Who knows?
Anyway, his wife complained to the Italians and they started investigating. They tracked cell phone records and entry logs at Aviano and they got hold of a $144,000 hotel bill. They connected all the dots and decided they wanted to arrest these 13 individuals thought to be CIA operatives.
They even caught wind of the damning info that the CIA ops had a blowout party after the snatch of the terrorist celebrating their fabulous bit of spy craft.
So now the Italians expect us to turn over the 13 CIA ops who snatched a terrorist from Italy.
There is zero chance this will actually happen. Less than zero chance. In fact, the chances here are measured like winter temps: -10 percent chance, -20 percent chance, maybe even a 50 below chance we will turn over our spies to Italy for prosecution after they grabbed a genuine bad guy off the streets of Italy.
Hey Italy, why did he seem to have the run-of-the-house over there? You knew what he was. Why did we have to do the snatching?
Oh, never mind, you're all so Euro over there. Can't be mean to our terrorists.
Well, we don't care. We can grab them and we will. And we aren't sending you our spies. But check out American TV on the 4th of July. We might just give them a parade. |
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