SwiftVets.com

[FairTaxGuy]

I'm just curious how many people here know about the FairTax? I was a big follower of this website and these forums back in the election time but as a FairTax supporter lately I've been thinking a lot about how if FairTax.org could get the press time swiftvvets for the truth did the FairTax Act would've been passed the first congressional session the bill was sponsored in. FairTax.org is a non-partisan/non-profit organization however the only cosponsors of this bill are republicans. There were a few democrats who had their name on in previous sessions and even this session but were unfortunately forced to retract their sponsorship by democratic leadership. I'm just curious how many people here even know about the FairTax and the www.FairTax.org website and what your thoughts are about it?

Some other FairTax websites where you can read more about this:

www.FairTaxVolunteer.org
www.MyFairTax.org
www.salestax.org
www.salestaxusa.com
www.fairtaxindiana.net

[PhantomSgt]

[AMOS]

Has anyone examined the concept of The Automated Payment Transaction Tax?

http://www.apttax.com/

[dusty]

I don't even like thinking about taxes but this FairTax plan is a good one. I've been following it's progress and it is emerging as the leading alternative to our present system.
And it does away with the I.R.S. and all this record keeping and makes all the illegals pay taxes too.
Only question I got is, how long before we pass it.

Dusty

[FairTaxGuy]

Hi guys,

That's great we've got some FairTax supporters here and it all depends on when this thing gets passed. The goal is for this current session of Congress. This can be helped if the Tax Panel recommends the FairTax as an option to the president. Boortz's FairTax Book should also help since it's coming out August 2nd. Also if the level of grassroots supports continues to grow at the rate it is I think it certainly has a solid chance at passing this session of Congress. The problem is that almost nobody knows about the FairTax and some of the basic details of what it is. Most people know about the flat tax and how that works, and most people have heard of an NRST but think it is merely like a state sales tax and is just going to be added to the current prices of products/services when that's not the case at all. The majority of people (from stats and from my experience) support this plan once the learn the details about it so the problem is the media doesn't cover things like this. Also FairTax.org isn't doing what The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth did and buy TV-spots. Perhaps they don't have enough money yet I don't know, but a few TV-spots and you have millions of more people who will know more about this.

That APT tax is some idea of one single economics professor. It doesn't even compare to the FairTax. The points of collection of the FAirTax would be a 90% reduction from the number of income tax filers are now. If this APT goes through the number of those who would have to file for this APT would increase by numbers I cannot even imagine. The rate would most likely never be a 0.3% and that would also be embedded into the costs of every item/service we purchase now much the same way companies embed their income tax and income tax compliance costs into their product. APT doesn't even have a bill, and certainly doesn't have the research credentials of the FairTax with some of the top economic minds from institutes like Harvard, MIT, Boston University, CATO Institute, Rice, etc. There are currently over 75 economists who've officially endorsed the FairTax too as you can see on their website. THe bill has currently 37 cosponsors and the largest grassroots base out of any tax reform option. The FairTax is the ONLY way to go for the best method of tax reform.
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April 15th, Make it Just Another Day!
www.FairTax.org
www.FairTaxIndiana.net

[FairTaxGuy]

Any other thoughts on this? Neal Boortz wrote a book on this that will be coming out on August 2nd called the FairTax book. It's been on the top sellers list and hopefully Boortz's book will do for the FairTax the same good that John O'Neil's book did for the Swift Vet's cause. It's been a best #10 best seller on Amazon.com: The FairTax Book
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April 15th, Make it Just Another Day!
www.FairTax.org
www.FairTaxIndiana.net

[LewWaters]

Just to play Devils Advocate, let me run some cons I can think of. Admittedly, I have not read or studied the issue very much, just some thoughts for debate.

1. Even though I like a consumption tax, let's say we place it on large luxury items, as has been done in the past. Naturally, this is directed at the wealthy since they are the ones most likely to buy expensive boats, cars, planes and such.

Okay, so we now have a tax, a certain percentage, on large purchases. The wealthy see the tax and decide the tax is too large and simply purchase these items overseas. This actually happened a few years ago when a large tax was placed on Yachts. In the end, Yacht builders were forced to close because their products weren't being purchased. Many lost jobs and the government took in even less tax.

2. Fuel will have to be taxed as well, as it is today. This means truckers must pay more taxes than consumers just to deliver the consumer products. Will this make trucking less attractive to them? Indeed, many professions require workers to purchase “tools of the trade.” If they end up costing even more, are we discouraging people from entering necessary professions?

3. How does this play out to "sin" taxes? Currently, any who drink alcohol or use tobacco are paying a much larger rate of tax than others that use products that payers of "sin" taxes might not be using. What else could be labeled a “sin” tax and thereby be hit with an even larger tax charge?

4. Are the states willing to end their taxation of products as well? If not, then we end up actually paying more tax by still paying taxes at the city, county and state level and now have added a federal level. If corporations lose their exemptions, what incentive is there to remain and keep jobs where they are that could easily be moved overseas?

5. In the case of large corporations such as Boeing, are overseas buyers required to pay this tax as well? If so, why would they buy a more expensive aircraft from the US instead of a similar but cheaper aircraft from European builders? If not, is it still a fair tax Boeing workers have to pay when their employer isn't collecting and paying?

6. If it is a "fair" consumption tax, why is spending up to the so-called poverty level exempted and the wealthy are again penalized for spending their money? Is it really fair when some are exempted and some hit heavier? What will be the added cost of monitoring who pays up to that level and beyond? Are we creating another hungry bureaucracy that will need constant feeding?

7. Currently, the top one percent of those with wealth in our country are paying over fifty percent of taxes. Since they have a better ability to purchase “tax free” items from out of the country, doesn’t this end up placing a larger tax burden on the middle class, who doesn’t have the access to overseas “tax free” purchases?

8. What about tourism? Will those who flock to our country every year for vacations simply decide to go elsewhere to avoid paying what they will see as a prohibitive tax on their visit? Why come to Florida for Disney World when they can go to Europe or Japan, see the same things and pay less?

As much as I dislike paying an income tax as well as the IRS, I think we need a healthy debate on possible shortcomings to a “fair tax.” Every issue has two sides and as has been said for years, “the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.” Once across that fence, though, and the grass is bitter, it may be impossible to climb back over.

In the long run, this “fair tax” might end up costing us even more tax then we pay today, especially if the feds, city, county and state all place their tax on each item. Over tax an item and no one buys it anymore. No one buys, the company goes bankrupt, workers lose jobs and we have even less tax revenues necessitating the ever increasing taxes.

Just some food for thought to open a reasonable debate before jumping headlong into matters.
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Clark County Conservative

[GM Strong]

Fine, fair taxes. But what in the Bloody hell does it matter if our borders are not secure and we pissaway more bucks trying to make people like us than securing our own destiny and national security. Big Fg Deal.
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8th Army Korea 68-69

[FairTaxGuy]

[carpro]

My real fear with any consumption based tax is that we'll eventually end up with both a consumption tax and the income tax to boot.(see Europe)

Politicians can never have enough money, it seems. The first time consumer buying goes down, some sweetheart will scream to increase the percentage , the products taxed or reinstitute an income tax.

Instead, I prefer a flat tax with the percentage to be determined , but with exemptions of (pick a figure) say $40, 000 to protect the working poor.

Just some rough thoughts.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[FairTaxGuy]

Hi carpro,

Thanks for the reply. I had just written out a long reply to your post but when I submitted the post it didn't go through, hit the back button and now it's gone! Boy I hate goin back to dialup from having broadband! Well here goes again....

[TexAsh]

[GenrXr]

[blue9t3]

Taxes we dond need no stinking taxes! Lets start by not giving tax returns to people who paid nothing. I try not to sweat the small shirt but ya gotta start somewhere!
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MOPAR-BUYER

[DLI78]

PhantomSgt: