 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject: Rush Limbaugh says D.C. lawyers warning Networks on ad |
 |
|
SwiftVets was the topic of almost the entire Rush Limbaugh radio show today.
At the end of his program, he mentioned that some law firm in Washington was warning networks "not to show the SwiftVets ad" because is was "defamatory."
Kerry being a public figure and the material about Bush so far from numerous Leftist sources making the SwiftVets ad seem mild by comparison, this seems the height of left wing hubris, absurdity and attempted dictatorial censorship. "WE BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH, AS LONG AS IT IS OUR FREE SPEECH" could be the Democratic mantra.
Anyone have any info on this "lawyer warning" regarding the ad?
FDL
Addendum: it's true. Navy_navy_Navy noted this link:
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_pdf.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After getting the letter off Drudge, I called both attorneys who signed it. I left one a long message on voicemail, and the other one had an assistant who listened to my little rant about muzzling over 250 Swift Boat Vets and how it was going to backfire on Kerry and the DNC. SEE THE LETTER AT DRUDGE! You can also get it at: http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_pdf.html
I suggest that as many vets as possible contact these free speech thugs and let them know that more than 250 Swiftees can't be wrong! Semper Fi!
The attorney's phone #s are:
Marc Elias, General Counsel, Kerry-Edwards 2004 (edited by Admin)Joseph Sandler, General Counsel, DNC (edited by admin)
Come on, people, let them know how we feel about trying to muzzle the Swiftees!
Admin note:
Walt...while I appreciate your zeal, I'm uncomfortable with this tact. Please refrain from posting such information until such time as it's appropriateness can be considered by SBVFT.
Thank you,
Admin
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djv
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 49
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If you call or email them, don't rant. Politely state your position. remember they are the angry party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's one thing thing to keep the personal attacks down, to attempt to minimize vitriol, and even to restrict the publication of "personal data". This I support.
It's another thing to edit publically available telephone #s of law firms. If anyone wants the #s please pm or email me. I'll look them up, which anyone can do, and provide them.
We are being attacked with Denial-of-Service attacks, threatened legal action, censorship...and we're being told to be "politically correct".
Some might choose to question the commitment to our efforts.
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:11 pm Post subject: Censorship by the DNC |
|
|
To EVERYBODY:
The attorney's phone #s are on the letter. I was not abusive when I called them, and I called for myself - nor representing SBVT!!! I URGE everyone to use those numbers - there is no need to cuss at them to make the point that they are trying to muzzle the Swiftees. GO FOR IT!!!
Semper Fi!
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coldwarvet
Admiral
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: Minnetonka, MN
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Free Speech" "Free Speech" VVAW chants from 1971 are still ringing in my ears. Whats changed?
_________________
Defender of the honor of those in harms way keeping us out of harms way.
"Peace is our Profession"
Strategic Air Command - Motto
USAF 75-79 Security Police |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's a transcription of the fax sent to television stations. (Please excuse any typo's)
Note the very clever lawyerspeak throughout....
| Quote: | Dear Station Manager:
We are counsel to the Democratic National Committee and John Kerry, respectively. It has been brought to our attention that a group calling itself "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth" has bought time, or may seek to buy time, on your station to air an advertisement that attacks Senator Kerry. The advertisement contains statements by men who purport to have served on Senator Kerry's SWIFT Boat in Vietnam and one statement by a man pretending to be a doctor who treated Senator Kerry for one of his injuries. In fact, not a single one of the men who pretend to have served with Senator Kerry was actually a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and the man pretending to be his doctor was not. The entire advertisement, therefore, is an inflammatory, outrageous lie.
"Swift Boat Veterans For Truth" styles itself as a group of individuals who personally served with John Kerry in the United States Navy in the Vietnam War. In truth, the group is a sham organization spearheaded by a Texas corporate media consultant. It has be financed largely with funds from a Houston homebuilder. See Slater (?) Dallas Morning News, July 23, 2004.
In this group's advertisements, twelve men appear to make statements about Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam. Not a single one of these men served on either of Senator Kerry's two SWIFT Boats (PCF 44 & PCF94).
Further, the "doctor" who appears in the ad, Louis Letson, was not a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and not the doctor who actually signed Senator Kerry's sick call sheet. Letson is not listed on any document as having treated Senator Kerry after the December 2, 1968 firefight. Moreover, according to news accounts, Letson did not record his "memories" of that incident until after Kerry became a candidate for President in 2003. (National Review Online, May 4, 2004).
The statements made by the phony "crewmates" and "doctor" who appear in the advertisement are also totally, demonstrably and unequivocally false and libelous. In particular, the advertisement charges that Senator Kerry "lied to get his Bronze Star." Just as falsely, it states that "lied before the Senate." These are serious allegations of actual crimes - specifically, of lying to the United States Government in the conduct of its official business. The events for which the Senator was awarded the Bronze Star have been documented repeatedly and in detail and are set out in the official citation signed by the Secretary of the Navy and the Commander of U. S. Forces in Vietnam. And yet these reckless charges of criminal conduct are offered without support or authentication, by the fake "witnesses" speaking on behalf of a phony organization.
Your station is not obligated to accept this advertisement for broadcast nor is it required to account in any way for its decision to reject such an advertisement. Columbia Broadcasting System v. Democratic National Committee, 412 U. S. 94 (1973); You Can't Afford Dodd Committee, 81 FCC2d 579 (1980). This so-called "Swift Boats Veterans" organization is not a federal candidate or candidate committee. Repeated efforts by organizations that are not candidate committees to obtain a private right of access have consistently rejected by the FCC. See e.g., National Conservative Political Action Committee, 89 FCC2d 626 (1982).
Thus, your station may freely refuse this advertisement. Because your station has this freedom, and because it is not a "use" of your facilities by a clearly identified candidate, your station is responsible for the false and libelous charges made by this sponsor.
Moreover, as a licensee, you have an overriding duty "to protect the public from false, misleading or deceptive advertising." Licensee Responsibility With Respect to the Broadcast of False, Misleading or Deceptive Advertising, 74 F.C.D.2d 623 (1961). Your station normally must take "reasonable steps" to satisfy itself "as to the reliability and reputation of every prospective advertiser." In re - Complaint by Consumers Association of District of Columbia, 32 F.C.C.2d 400, 405 (1971).
Under these circumstances, your station may not responsibly air this advertisement. We request that your station act immediately to prevent broadcasts of this advertisement and deny any future sale of time. Knowing that the advertisement is false, and possessing the legal authority to refuse to run it, your station should exercise that authority in the public interest.
Please contact us promptly at either of the phone numbers below to advise us regarding the status of this advertisement.
Sincerely yours,
(signed
Marc Elias
Joseph Sandler |
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ASPB wrote: | It's one thing thing to keep the personal attacks down, to attempt to minimize vitriol, and even to restrict the publication of "personal data". This I support.
It's another thing to edit publically available telephone #s of law firms. If anyone wants the #s please pm or email me. I'll look them up, which anyone can do, and provide them.
We are being attacked with Denial-of-Service attacks, threatened legal action, censorship...and we're being told to be "politically correct".
Some might choose to question the commitment to our efforts. |
The numbers are available on the lawyer letter itself as can be seen at http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_pdf.html , but I agree: contacting the lawyers is not going to be productive.
On the other hand, pointing out to local media that the lawyers seem to agree with Kerry's Senate testimony on the Vietnam War Criminals a.k.a. U.S. military ( http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1630 ) might be of use.
FDL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IMO, this was possibly the WORST possible reaction to the ad that the Kerry campaign could have taken.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I hope these lawyers do NOT stop trying to keep this ad from getting out. It's available on the internet and the majority of people in the US have internet access at work, if not at home. It's going to get out.
The lawyers thinly veiled threats are going to help bring more people to see what the vets have to say and I'm sure that the biggest effect has been to give more credibility to the Swifts than they EVER intended to give.
I hope the lawyers continue this type of bullying.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Now that's commitment Elizabeth,
Transcribing a fax. God, the world needs more women like you! 
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
My motives were selfish, ASPB.
I wanted the contents to be available in text form so that you guys who are so good at spotting BS can just copy and paste the parts with which you take issue.
FDL's already caught one - that apparently these attorneys have faith in the veracity of Kerry's testimony before Congress?
A couple of other points - they are calling Dr. Letson a fake because he didn't sign the sick call sheet. (A sick call sheet is not the same thing as a treatment record, for those of you who are visiting for information. A sick call sheet is a sign-in, where the patient signs in and the hospital corpsman (HM) or nurse returns the medical file to the correct place and signs the sick call sheet to indicate that the case is concluded, patient taken care of.)
Even a treatment record may not have been signed by the person who removed the shrapnel - it may have been signed by the person assigned to check files back in, or the nurse or corpsman who attended the treatment.
The fax also makes a big deal about the fact that none of the people in the ad served WITH Kerry IN his boats - it implies that these people are claiming that they DID, first of all (which they didn't) and it implies that only people who served WITH Kerry IN his boats knew him well enough to make charachter judgements.
It ignores the fact that of 23 officers with whom Kerry served, only ONE stands with him, today.
That fax may intimidate a few stations into refusing the ad, but I hope they don't stop sending it. Their veiled threats are the best publicity for the Swifts that they can get. After all, if there's nothing of import in what the Swifts have to say, then why is the Kerry campaign going insane and desperate to stop them?
Anyone see O'Reilly and Morris do their smear job on the Swifts, tonight? They missed the boat so many times in that segment that I lost count.
(Edited for a typo and to add "Hospital" to "corpsman")
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother
Last edited by Navy_Navy_Navy on Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
EJ
Your acts are correct. Letson in "Unfit" says that the treatment record was signed by the hospitalman on duty which is normal even today. They can't be so stupid as to not understand that; even their own doctor's records are often signed by clerks and not corpsmen or nurses.
We've a number of things going on. Ist they're liars and 2nd they know nothing of what they speak! Your transcription is great!
Everyone should read it carefully and you'll find that the authors are liars or stupid. Both methinks!
As to O'Reilly and Morris tonight...they're both braindead. I'm writing to both of them later tonight! Pray for some sense from my pen! 
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
The freepers have been phoning and emailing those 2 attorneys, and, making a lot of donations to the swifties to keep this ad going.
Interesting, on one of the freeper threads about this were a couple of posters who are attoneys themselves - some of their comments - snipped
Having litigated libel suits, I can tell you that it would be fantastic if John Kerry filed a libel suit against these people. First, he would be obligated to testify at a deposition, and we could have all kinds of fun with that. Second, in a libel suit, the measure of damages is based on the harm to a person's reputation, and so Kerry's reputation would be relevant. You could get into all kinds of events from his life, and depose all kinds of witnesses, while delving into that issue.
Assuming, of course, libel was established to have occurred. In discovery, you get to investigate issues such as damages, even though damages will not be provided unless the plaintiff wins. So, the defendants could look into Kerry's whole life as part of the examination of his reputation for truth telling and for being an honorable serviceman. Did you lie about your divorce, did you lie about your service record, did you lie about war crimes, etc.
Then being a lawyer you know that the primary reason for this is to give liberal station managers cover to refuse to air this "controversial ad" and then bully others into not doing it. Even if he DID file a suit, the only purpose would be to get an injunction until after the election to prevent them from airing it.
These attorneys have no standing to sue or to even threaten a suit on behalf of Kerry. These are not Kerry's lawyers they are the lawyers for the DNC and the Kerry Edwards campaign. I question the ethics of these lawyers in attempting to get stations to not play this ad under threat of a lawsuit that they have no standing to bring. Only Kerry could bring such a suit and these are not John Kerry's personal attorneys. I honestly think this may be a violation of the Code of Professional Responsibility and borders on extortion.
Campaign rules do not allow coordination between Party and Candidate. The fact the Party and the Candidate are coordinating their lawyers in order to control commercial appearences of opposition smack of a violation of the CFR rules. IOW it should have been seperate law firms or just one making the letter. Who is paying the lawyer fees? Are these fees being reported. If this is probono then is the value being reported as a campaign contribution?
_________________
.
one of..... We The People |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bhist
Lieutenant
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 228
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kate wrote: | The freepers have been phoning and emailing those 2 attorneys, and, making a lot of donations to the swifties to keep this ad going.
Interesting, on one of the freeper threads about this were a couple of posters who are attoneys themselves - some of their comments - snipped
Having litigated libel suits, I can tell you that it would be fantastic if John Kerry filed a libel suit against these people. First, he would be obligated to testify at a deposition, and we could have all kinds of fun with that. Second, in a libel suit, the measure of damages is based on the harm to a person's reputation, and so Kerry's reputation would be relevant. You could get into all kinds of events from his life, and depose all kinds of witnesses, while delving into that issue.
Assuming, of course, libel was established to have occurred. In discovery, you get to investigate issues such as damages, even though damages will not be provided unless the plaintiff wins. So, the defendants could look into Kerry's whole life as part of the examination of his reputation for truth telling and for being an honorable serviceman. Did you lie about your divorce, did you lie about your service record, did you lie about war crimes, etc.
Then being a lawyer you know that the primary reason for this is to give liberal station managers cover to refuse to air this "controversial ad" and then bully others into not doing it. Even if he DID file a suit, the only purpose would be to get an injunction until after the election to prevent them from airing it.
These attorneys have no standing to sue or to even threaten a suit on behalf of Kerry. These are not Kerry's lawyers they are the lawyers for the DNC and the Kerry Edwards campaign. I question the ethics of these lawyers in attempting to get stations to not play this ad under threat of a lawsuit that they have no standing to bring. Only Kerry could bring such a suit and these are not John Kerry's personal attorneys. I honestly think this may be a violation of the Code of Professional Responsibility and borders on extortion.
Campaign rules do not allow coordination between Party and Candidate. The fact the Party and the Candidate are coordinating their lawyers in order to control commercial appearences of opposition smack of a violation of the CFR rules. IOW it should have been seperate law firms or just one making the letter. Who is paying the lawyer fees? Are these fees being reported. If this is probono then is the value being reported as a campaign contribution? |
This is fantastic information. I just hope the cable news stations cover this kind of information. What the DNC lawyers did today is just another example of how the Democrats abuse the law to cover up their lies.
_________________
Watch Kerry Implode Because Of Truth!!
Watch Rather Implode Because Of Lies!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
