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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Acksiom,
Rather that debating with some who may be opposed to our efforts for partisan reasons I'd suggest you do two things.
Call as loudly as you can for Mr Kerry to release "all" of his service records. The President has already done so.
Next week, buy a copy of "Unfit for Duty". Read our case, study wintersoldier.com , and come back here to resolve unanswered questions. We'll do all we can to answer your remaining questions.
And no...I did not serve with John Kerry but I had a virtually identical job doing the same thing for a full year at the same time as Kerry 100 miles from where he was and at times in the same area of operations.
I've studied his record in Vietnam and his anti-war activities extensively (800 hours of research), talked to and listened to his peers and superiors from Nam, and conclude that they are honorable men telling the truth.
So help me God! _________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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stupson Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 76 Location: new bern nc
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:39 am Post subject: To "Q Nick" |
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I'm going to 'splain a couple of things to you, Slick:
1. You have not earned the privilege of addressing me by my first name. I am not a member of your playground group.
2. You have not earned the right to tell me what to reread, when to rest or when to "move on."
3. My Service is NOT over, nor will it ever be. I took an oath about 40 years ago "To not lie, cheat, steal, nor tolerate anyone else who does." Nothing has changed for me and it never will. Such concepts remain totally wasted on the likes of you and Kerry.
4. My Service absolutely gives me the right to see a spade as a spade and make an honest call. If another's record is a hoax, I don't give a damn how it makes me look. And you have not remotely earned the right to sit in judgement of me.
5. I don't need or want you telling me to be proud of Vietnam; you have not earned that right.
6. In that you failed to arm yourself with the facts I pointed you to, you have have demonstrated your intellectual laziness and have voluntarily chosen to remain an ignoramous.
"OUT" |
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DonnaA2Z Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:49 am Post subject: Kerry/Bush? |
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The ad didn't phase me in the least. I mean, no surprise there.
I think what we should concentrate on is which person, Bush or Kerry, will do the best thing for the United States... Which will do the work for the people of this country.
edited by Moderator --
Donna, this site is about if John F. Kerry is or isn't qualified to be the next President and CIC of the United States. No Bush Bashing Please!
Take Care,
Donna |
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prdCOmom Lt.Jg.
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 104
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | am undecided. However, to me this is more than just an axe to grind, in that if Kerry significantly misrepresented his and others' actions, it affects my opinion of his fitness in office. |
Quote: | I am undecided. However, |
Quote: | To remind you, I am undecided. |
Quote: | Again, I am undecided |
Quote: | Again, I am undecided, and wish to hear from both sides. |
Are you really UNDECIDED?
Here is a novel suggestion for you......BUY the book.
Try using google.
Read Wintersoldier.
Read the transcripts of Senate testimony.
Quote: | However, to me this is more than just an axe to grind |
Your right. This is about more than an axe to grind!
This is about reading all of these posts and not what you just want to gleen from them.
This is about restoring honor and decency and truth.!!!!!!!!!!!!
These men have done their homework. Now it is your turn.....
Truth and information are not another government entitlement.
It's your vote.
Do something to suggest you are educated enough to use it. _________________
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Acksiom Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:03 am Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: | Acksiom,
Rather that debating with some who may be opposed to our efforts for partisan reasons I'd suggest you do two things.
Call as loudly as you can for Mr Kerry to release "all" of his service records. The President has already done so. |
In that respect, I intend to post the SBVFT site's url to several lists on which I am active, as I consider this to be an absolutely critical campaign issue; and may do more, depending upon future events. Kerry's failure to file the appropriate form in time for his records to be examined, reported upon to the general public, and sufficiently discussed by them, will, as things stand, categorically require me to vote against him, at the bare minimum.
However, with all due respect, and appreciation for your courtesy in clearly only suggesting what I should do, I do not consider that a sufficient substitute to my decision-making process in terms of examining the opposition case as presented here.
Oh, and for the record, I am not meaningfully concerned about not having my questions answered due to the banning of their intended respondents by the moderators here, since if the presentation of their reasoning was not insufficiently satisfactory in the first place, I would likewise not be questioning them.
ASPB wrote: | Next week, buy a copy of "Unfit for Duty". Read our case, study wintersoldier.com , and come back here to resolve unanswered questions. We'll do all we can to answer your remaining questions. |
I had already decided to do so, thank you. The wintersoldier site is on my list for examination (I have a longstanding comittment to online activism regarding another, nonpartisan issue, my attention to which is being reduced while I investigate these particular matters, so I must prioritize). At present I have no unanswered questions regarding the SBVFT campaign, due to the proficiency of regulars in this forum at answering previous challenges.
ASPB wrote: | And no...I did not serve with John Kerry but I had a virtually identical job doing the same thing for a full year at the same time as Kerry 100 miles from where he was and at times in the same area of operations.
I've studied his record in Vietnam and his anti-war activities extensively (800 hours of research), talked to and listened to his peers and superiors from Nam, and conclude that they are honorable men telling the truth. |
You really don't need to justify yourself in that respect to me, for several reasons. Among them is the fact that I am extremely disturbed by the blatant misrepresentation of the effectively meaningless distinction between serving 'under' Kerry and serving 'with' Kerry that is consistently being repeated. I just saw it again on a Fox News program about media relevance (for the record, the gentleman whom I believe was moderating quickly corrected it).
When a worker in the news media industry engages in this misrepresenation, it is one of either two things: patent, willful, knowingly deliberate spin, or an indication of gross professional incompetence.
In essence I am not particularly concerned with bona fides regarding your expert knowledge, as I prefer to judge by the reasoning presented as well as the claims made.
(Edited 8/7/04 7:10 PM PT to correct misstated positive case of "sufficiently" to negative. I need dinner.) |
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Acksiom Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:11 am Post subject: |
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prdCOmom wrote: | Are you really UNDECIDED? |
Yes. What are your grounds for doubting that?
prdCOmom wrote: | Here is a novel suggestion for you......BUY the book.
Try using google. Read Wintersoldier. Read the transcripts of Senate testimony. |
Here's a novel suggestion for you in return: don't harangue or speak down to me. I have already decided to buy the book. I use Google routinely and have already done so about these matters. I will get to Wintersoldier when I can.
I understand and respect your passion, but think you should keep in mind that I am a touchy <child of unmarried parentage> who reacts very negatively to being told what to do by anyone.
prdCOmom wrote: | Your right. This is about more than an axe to grind!
This is about reading all of these posts and not what you just want to gleen from them. |
Actually, for me, just what I want to glean from them is precisely what this is about for me.
prdCOmom wrote: | This is about restoring honor and decency and truth.!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Not for me, it isn't. For me, it's about my self-interest.
prdCOmom wrote: | Truth and information are not another government entitlement. |
Actually, in terms of the behavior of government officials itself, yes, they are.
Now, if you had instead said that I had a responsibility as a Citizen to inform myself, I would not have disagreed.
prdCOmom wrote: | It's your vote. Do something to suggest you are educated enough to use it. |
It's your need to persuade me. Do something to indicate that the insultingly condescending tone of your comment immediately above is regretted.
I have two disabled parents in separate domiciles to care for -- one a 2nd Lt. in Korea, the other a former DoD cryptologist -- as well as over 1,000,000 direct victims of routine and ritual genital amputation in the usa annually to represent, along with their disinformationally victimized parents, so putting up with your speaking down to me is not real high on my list of priorities. |
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prdCOmom Lt.Jg.
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 104
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | prdCOmom wrote:
Are you really UNDECIDED?
Yes. What are your grounds for doubting that? |
Maybe it was your continual need to repeat it!
Quote: | Here's a novel suggestion for you in return: don't harangue or speak down to me. I have already decided to buy the book. I use Google routinely and have already done so about these matters. I will get to Wintersoldier when I can. |
Sir! Are you aware that you are utilizing an internet bulletin board! LOL
Your descision to buy the book was your first step in a journey of independence and seeking answers on your own instead of asking these good men and women to "PROVE IT"
When you have read and done all your research....come back here with some facts....REAL ONES....to refute what these Veterans are saying.
Not the Moveon.org or DU hatriat speech. (no matter how carefully it is disguised.)
Quote: | I understand and respect your passion, but think you should keep in mind that I am a touchy <child of unmarried parentage> who reacts very negatively to being told what to do by anyone. |
Your Point?
I am the Mother of a United States Marine who reacts very negatively to being told what to do by anyone.
(PS...Are you aware that you are utilizing and internet bulletin board? LOL
Quote: | Actually, for me, just what I want to glean from them is precisely what this is about for me. |
hmmmmm, Well must be nice to live in your world!
Quote: | prdCOmom wrote:
This is about restoring honor and decency and truth.!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not for me, it isn't. For me, it's about my self-interest. |
Are you by chance John Kerry?
Quote: | prdCOmom wrote:
Truth and information are not another government entitlement.
Actually, in terms of the behavior of government officials itself, yes, they are. |
Spoken like a true liberal
Quote: | Now, if you had instead said that I had a responsibility as a Citizen to inform myself, I would not have disagreed. |
I thought that was what I said
Quote: | prdCOmom wrote:
It's your vote. Do something to suggest you are educated enough to use it.
It's your need to persuade me. Do something to indicate that the insultingly condescending tone of your comment immediately above is regretted. |
Not gonna do it....Wouldn't be Prudent!
Quote: | I have two disabled parents in separate domiciles to care for -- one a 2nd Lt. in Korea, the other a former DoD cryptologist -- as well as over 1,000,000 direct victims of routine and ritual genital amputation in the usa annually to represent, along with their disinformationally victimized parents, so putting up with your speaking down to me is not real high on my list of priorities. |
Nor is your victim statis or your inability to seek information by yourself real high on mine! _________________
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karlaerin Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:49 am Post subject: one of the "under 30" group |
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mcb58 wrote: | Right-on Navy,
the problem with the under 30 group is that they respect nothing. |
I am one of those in the "under 30 group." I am a 21 year old married female college student. I don't know. Maybe I am an exception, but I wholeheartedly respect our veterans and those who are currently fighting to protect my freedom. I have no illusions of what this country could be if it wasn't for our great military and our founding fathers. Check out the Young America Foundation website for a lot of people like myself who fit that under 30 bracket.
I was at work when the Towers fell. I was in shock. Then I cried. Then I was p*ssed. (It's been proven that since 9/11 the under 30 crowd is becoming more and more conservative)
There are many on the left who don't remember that day and want to believe it didn't really happen. That's the same as a lot of people believing the Holocaust didn't really happen. It's just a way of soothing their scorched, aching consciences, but it just makes them look like ignoramouses who aren't in touch with reality. _________________ If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier. |
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recongrunt Seaman Recruit
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Condon, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:06 am Post subject: Vote for Kerry and join the ranks of traitors |
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To vote for John Kerry will cast a persons position on America. Kerry may have won a medal or two but any medal and a $1.25 will buy a cup of coffee. He was a short time warrior who then stepped over to the other side. I served 19 months in Vietnam in the Marines and I never witnessed anything close to what Kerry claims. I spent many,many hours in the bush and although all of us were frustrated with the way things were going I witnessed only brave young men fighting a very difficult war. The difficulties were only enhanced by John Kerry and his cohorts. I don't know how many lies he has told to get where he is, but I do know this, if he actually ends up reporting for duty again I'm going AWOL to Hanoi and see if I can discover his secrets of "success." For now I will take Genral Giaps words below as gospel because I respect him a lot more than I do John Kerry.
(Credits) Geocities.com
In his book, Giap clearly indicated that NVA troops were without sufficient supplies, and had been continually defeated time and again.
By 1968, NVA morale was at it's lowest point ever. The plans for "Tet" '68 was their last desperate attempt to achieve a success, in an effort to boost the NVA morale. When it was over, General Giap and the NVA viewed the Tet '68 offensive as a failure, they were on their knees and had prepared to negotiate a surrender.
At that time, there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. casualties, the Vietnam War was about to end, as the NVA was prepared to accept their defeat. Then, they heard Walter Cronkite (former CBS News anchor and correspondent) on TV proclaiming the success of the Tet '68 offensive by the communist NVA. They were completely and totally amazed at hearing that the US Embassy had been overrun. In reality, The NVA had not gained access to the Embassy--there were some VC who had been killed on the grassy lawn, but they hadn't gained access. Further reports indicated the riots and protesting on the streets of America.
According to Giap, these distorted reports were inspirational to the NVA. They changed their plans from a negotiated surrender and decided instead, they only needed to persevere for one more hour, day, week, month, eventually the protesters in American would help them to achieve a victory they knew they could not win on the battlefield. Remember, this decision was made at a time when the U.S. casualties were fewer than 10,000, at the end of 1967, beginning of 1968.
Giap said, adding thanks for the anti-war movement, "During the Vietnam War the American people supported Vietnam. I thank the American people for that."
John Kerry don't forget that in 1967 there were 10,000 dead Americans. Thanks to your involvement in the anti-war movement and the NVA the death toll rose to over 58,000. I don't think you could ever use the words Semper Fi, but by damn I can.
Ps. Walter Cronkite and his buddies in the pinko media also have their share of blood on their hands.
C. Wayne Standiford
www.burymewithsoldiers.com |
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Scott Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1603 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:07 am Post subject: Re: one of the "under 30" group |
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karlaerin wrote: | I am one of those in the "under 30 group." I am a 21 year old married female college student. I don't know. Maybe I am an exception, but I wholeheartedly respect our veterans and those who are currently fighting to protect my freedom. I have no illusions of what this country could be if it wasn't for our great military and our founding fathers. Check out the Young America Foundation website for a lot of people like myself who fit that under 30 bracket. |
Good for you, and welcome aboard. Do you have the URL for the Young America Foundation website? _________________ Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
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karlaerin Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:13 am Post subject: Re: one of the "under 30" group |
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[quote="Scott] Good for you, and welcome aboard. Do you have the URL for the Young America Foundation website?[/quote]
Thanks
Here is the website: http://www.yaf.org/
They do a lot of work for the Reagan Ranch. They also just had their 26th Annual National Youth Conference. You can go to the CSPAN website to listen to some of the speeches they have in their archives. I think one is Ben Stein. Another is Dr. Burt Folsom (a friend of my family's). _________________ If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier. |
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FireBoss59 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 11
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:17 am Post subject: No WMD's found........ |
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XRepublican wrote: |
Two reasons, first, they already had a deal with the Iraqi government to buy oil. Second, they knew no WMD or terrorist camps were located in Iraq. |
Well, we all know now that "NO WMD's" were found in Iraq, so, will someone PLEASE tell me where did the 30,000 LITERS of NERVE GAS come from that was found in trucks in Jordan that were going to be used as "truck bombs" come from. Does the local Wal-Mart there carry it...?!!! I don't think so, ALL of the "stalling" that was done in the U.N., BEFORE Bush said "enough of this crap" and sent in the troops, was to give the S.O.B.'s time to get what they had out of Iraq....!! And as for the GREAT U.N. and it's "oil for food" program, (which I call "oil for blood money, Saddam's money and AMERICAN AND IRAQI BLOOD....!), I guess we were wrong.....!! I don't think so........!! My 5 year old Grand daughter saw threw that one......!! Why can't the Left....!! What are the "talking Heads" going to tell us about the "dirty bombs" that might be used here, in our own country, where did they come from....? The Nerve Gas ladened truck bombs that might be used here, where did it come from.....? You don't just make it over night, you get it from some MAD MAN that is willing to sell it to you for a good price.... SADDAM...................!! PEOPLE better wake up and smell the crap that's being pumped out to them.........while we still can........ |
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hosemonkey Seaman Recruit
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 18
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:56 am Post subject: He has no honor |
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Please forgive my lack of sophistication, but the issue seems fairly simple to me. John Kerry is a cold-eyed schemer who set his sights on the highest office in the land as a very young man. His maneuvers in entering the Navy and worming his way into the honorable company of riverine operators and his subsequent manufacture of a marketable curriculum vitae (Purple hearts,Silver Stars etc.) were merely steps in his quest for high office. His cowardly betrayal of the rest of us in his further quest for media exposure was yet again another step in his master plan. When his purpose was accomplished, he abandoned the ragged misfits of the VVAW. And when service in Vietnam once again became politically correct, he cynically wrapped himself in the flag that he had previously spit upon and emblazoned on his office wall, the medals that he had dishonestly aquired, in spite of having allegedly tossed them over the White House fence. Those who fail to discern his true character will undoubtedly vote for this pathetic, flawed man. They are the same ones who sent William Clinton to the White House twice. I firmly believe that the American electorate gets exactly what it deserves. We have maintained our honor in the face of lies and vilification. John Kerry and those like him have no concept of the word. 'Nuf said. |
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hosemonkey Seaman Recruit
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 18
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:01 am Post subject: He has no honor |
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Please forgive my lack of sophistication, but the issue seems fairly simple to me. John Kerry is a cold-eyed schemer who set his sights on the highest office in the land as a very young man. His maneuvers in entering the Navy and worming his way into the honorable company of riverine operators and his subsequent manufacture of a marketable curriculum vitae (Purple hearts,Silver Stars etc.) were merely steps in his quest for high office. His cowardly betrayal of the rest of us in his further quest for media exposure was yet again another step in his master plan. When his purpose was accomplished, he abandoned the ragged misfits of the VVAW. And when service in Vietnam once again became politically correct, he cynically wrapped himself in the flag that he had previously spit upon and emblazoned on his office wall, the medals that he had dishonestly aquired, in spite of having allegedly tossed them over the White House fence. Those who fail to discern his true character will undoubtedly vote for this pathetic, flawed man. They are the same ones who sent William Clinton to the White House twice. I firmly believe that the American electorate gets exactly what it deserves. We have maintained our honor in the face of lies and vilification. John Kerry and those like him have no concept of the word. 'Nuf said. |
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Me#1You#10 Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Hose, I don't think I've seen a more succint summation of our shared conviction than the one you just penned.
Lack of sophistication? Twaddle brother...it was EL-E-GANT! ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
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