SwiftVets.com

[inlikeflint]

[prdCOmom]

No....I meant ft. I am a housewife with 4 kids. How many ft. apart they are is important to me.

And your ACLU membership is impressive....no doubt.
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[McCloud]

WTVG Channel 13 in Toledo says that they are going to air the commercial according to their website. They highlight the fact that they "WILL" air it so obviously there was controversy over it . Good, One less battle to fight.

[prdCOmom]

PS....I have always wondered about the Army of 1
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[fortdixlover]

[ASPB]

I think we all need to remember when dealing with doubters that the crew members were 8 or 9 young men that spent no more than 7 or 8 weeks each with John Kerry 33 years ago. Their recollections may be based on a lot of things that will never be fully understood. Like, for example, personal heroism awards that they may consider to be undeserved which were recommended by Kerry.

When 250 men, including all living peers (save 1), and the entire chain of command above him during his brief tour are opposed to him for no personal gain there must be a certain weight of truth given to their statements. Sworn statements for many of them.

Also, there are a lot of people/pundits that will tell you that this is a bad idea politically. They may be right. I'll tell you honestly; this is not about politics in the normal sense. It's about honor and the fear that a fraud will be elected POTUS.
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[Prothius]

[NavyBrat]

Hi, I'm new to this board and to this Site!
I'm trying to find a 'fitting" place to jump into.

I've just heard the 'scuttlebut' about the ad on FoxNews (saw the interview on Hannity and Colmes with the "Mouth" filling in for Alan Colmes). I found the ad and the Website to be very effective and informative!! It's the first time, after reading all the information, I've took out my credit card, and donated, albeit small amount, because I believe in this message. I live in West Virginia, a home to many Vietnam and other Veterans who support John Kerry solely on the Democrat and Veteran issues. They need to hear this truth about him.

Tony- You voice my sentiments exactly. For the past 6 years, I've been designing and managing an Army Vietnam Vets web page and this has been his complaint: the misrepresented image of Vietnam Veterans as crazed baby killers and dope addicts pushed on our society by the likes of the John Kerrys and his ilk. He's been hush-hush about the Presidential race, so I'm not sure where he stands but I did send him the SwiftVets links.

To the person who mentioned about the DNC trying to shut down the Swiftvets site..by what authority could they? Only fascist, communist, totalarian countries can do that.. This is America!

[Scott]

[Dabba55]

Prothius, your observations are right on point with regard to the question: how come the guys on the boat support Kerry. Military command structure and how personal relationships/human behavior plays into this. Also, as you touched on, the "Rashimon" aspect of a series of events that happened over thirty years ago. There are so many versions of "truth." I'm not talking about the relativity junk that people use as an excuse to get by with anything. I mean versions of truth the way the great writer Wm. Faulkner meant it: history is never dead. As it gets re-told and re-told, the Official Version keeps changing. And events don't happen in a linear fashion.

So, you have a room full of junior officers who see a peer ask to be written up for a purple heart on a minor injury that occurred without a firefight of any kind. He's told to "shove it." Now add to the mix these enlisted guys who had very brief contact with Kerry. Maybe they keep their mouth shut when they hear something that doesn't ring true because they think, what do I know? That could have been the way it happened. I didn't see it but obviously someone else did. Add the telephone game, where the story is told wrong so many times it becomes right. Thirty years later they're all watching tv and they hear he got a purple heart for that very incident...which is now being described as some hellacious incident. The enlisted guys think, wow, Lt. Kerry/Sen. Kerry, my CO, will be PRESIDENT. Only in America. The junior officers think, what the??? This puny, little rat who cut and ran, dishonored us all, is now a heartbeat a way from becoming the Commander in Chief? We are in the middle of a tough war, with guys in the field engaged in guerrillla warfare taking casualties to protect civilians--holy flashback-- this, and Kerry's girly-man salute, is a nightmare.

[Dabba55]

I just had a thought: I know this could never happen--Kerry and his lawyers would never LET this happen, but wouldn't it be interesting for all these men to get locked into a room where they had to sort it all out? All the gaps get filled in.

But human behavior being what it is, people hold on to their positions; even if it's worthless territory, it's MY territory, dammit.

In the end, Swift Boat Vets are at a tremendous disadvantage because the media has bought into Kerry's story, his Official Version. So they are protecting their turf and don't want to be revealed for what THEY are, left-leaning, LAZY (they don't make even the feeblest attempt to conduct follow-up calls), scrambling to feed the beast--the 24 hour news cycle-- and, like all of us, get ahead. Impress the boss. They don't GET the military, they don't understand the culture. They have a love/hate thing with the military, just like Hollywood.

The only part of the story they sympathize with is the slander Kerry engaged in thirty years ago. They see that was wrong. So that's what they focus on: the Swift Vets are just pissed off about that...and they think, let it go, it was thirty years ago.

So, I think for you guys to prevail, you have to do exactly what you're doing: bypass the media filter to get right at the American people. And Kerry's well-financed machine. They know, the clock is ticking. They will fight dirty. Bring in the lawyers.

If I were you, Swifties, I would monitor Kerry's appearances and have hecklers at every one yelling "Release your military records." "Let the American people see your military records." That would freak him out. He doesn't handle heckling well any way. Be sure and get near the tv cameras. Near the boom mikes. They don't have to see you, just hear you.

[justamom]

RIslander - YOU ROCK!!!! WHAT A LETTER!!!!

[Fabius Cunctator]

Prothius,

To reiterate, your observations ring pretty true. It's all a matter of perspective, and generally, unless an officer is grossly incompetent to the point his own troops recognized it, the troops will generally give their commander the benefit of a doubt. However, I have seen this from the same perspective Kerry's fellow officers had seen it. Several things to consider, and I am taking this from a Marine perspective. I began as a Marine platoon commander in the FMF. I served with other 2nd LTs, who graduated from either the same TBS class as me, or one before, or even one after. The Corps is small enough that many officers may know each other, if not personally then by reputation. At the level of platoon commander, you will generally interact as much with your peers as much as with your troops. You will live in the BOQ or equivalent, you will attend officers' calls, at either a battalion or regimental, even division level. You are constantly under the eye of your peers as much as you are with your subordinates. And, more often than not, your peers will be harsher judges of character than the troops. As a commander of division and FSSG units at different levels of command over a 30-year career, I have observed this, and have seen the good officers succeed and the bad ones get weeded out. Your analogy regarding owning a company is right on target. If I had a junior officer report to me, I would ask around to see who had served with him, or call friends of mine of the same rank. Fitness reports are worthless, with inflated marks, etc. I would rather have heard it from one of my TBS "shipmates" rather than believe the reviews.

I had the extreme displeasure of seeing Van Odell being ripped last week on Hannity & Colmes by that Demo-Socialist Susan "the Mouth" Estrich. The Dems in general continue to demonstrate their abyssmal ignorance of all things military, and do not know terms as we in the Naval service define or use them. If Kerry was part of a Swift Boat squadron, he not only served with the sailors under his command, but he also served with the other boats, their commanders and crews, of the squadron. He was part of a group which was tasked missions by higher command. He was NOT a free agent, to do as he pleased. He did not operate autonomously from the rest of the squadron, no more than my platoon, company, etc operated autonomously from the respective company or battalion. If he did, I will wager it was more the exception than the rule. So, for anyone to say that none of those officers served with Kerry either demonstrates ignorance or willful distortion. As such, as I noted above, his fellow officers were well placed to observe his performance in a manner in which their immediate commander would. Regarding decorations, I have seen this system used and abused in a way which would disgust many veterans. It would not surprise me to know that Kerry wrote up his own citation and submitted it for approval. Given the nature of life in a combat zone, it may well not have been closely scrutinized and just signed off as a matter of routine, or perhaps a sympathetic clerk may have forged a signature. I know few officers who wrote their own orders to the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and got away with it! It happens, and if you deal with someone savvy enough to game the system, it is something he can get away with. Is is wrong? Hell yes! Can we do better?? We should, but we are of course dealing with fallible human beings, and in the case of Vietnam, fallible human beings in the crucible of combat.

Another thing which torqued me was the disparagement of the medical officer. I recently had my 2-year physical at the Naval Clinic at Andrews AFB (yes, there is a naval activity at Andrews AFB, affiliated with the Naval Reserve, which does flight physicals, etc). On a routine physical, at various stages of the exam, my sheet was signed off by either a First Class Hospitalman or a Chief Hospitalman. At the end, my condition was reviewed by a medical officer, who then signed off on my exam.

My advice to my older brothers in arms who appear on the media, in a context similar to Hannity and Colmes (where one side is sympathetic) - if you are being grilled in a similar fashion, then when the sympathetic commentator is addressing you, take a moment to define the terms to demonstrate the ignorance of your opponents. In addition, you enhance your credibility with those of us who know better.

Semper Fi!
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Cunctator.

“Go, stranger, and tell the Spartans that we fell here, in obedience to their commands.”

[You GottaBeKidding]

If the opinions of those who were officers with Kerry, rather than on the same boat, are so unimportant, why did Kerry use a photo of those officers in his ads???????

Too bad those being attacked for not being on the same boat weren't able to whip out that photo to show that Kerry thought being associated with them was a positive thing. If he'd thought their opinions didn't count, he wouldn't have used the photo. And then he found out what they REALLY though.

[NavyBrat]