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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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 Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: BBC Reported WTC 7 Collapse While it Was Still Standing?? |
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Okay, I know this subject stirs up emotions, but how can this one be denied?
BBC Reporter Jane Standley was reporting live about the collapse of WTC 7 while WTC 7 was still standing behind her in the background.
BBC VIDEO FROM 911
Heres a phone call to BBC (March 6th 2007) where I was trying to get ahold of Jane Standley. For some reason she is not going to be at work for a while !!!!
The BBC guy talked to me for about 26 minutes and you might want to listen to it
heres the link to download the call:
http://www.pumpitout.com/audio/js_030607.mp3
I have confirmed that Jane Standley does exist.
| Quote: | NEW YORK FOREIGN PRESS CENTER BRIEFING WITH RUDOLPH GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, AND FORMER FIRE DEPARTMENT COMMISSIONER THOMAS VON ESSEN (AS RELEASED BY THE FOREIGN PRESS CENTER) TOPIC: NEW YORK CITY AFTER SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 LOCATION: NEW YORK FOREIGN PRESS CENTER, NEW YORK, NEW YORK Federal News Service September 10, 2003 Wednesday
Q Hello. Jane Standley, BBC. In a couple of weeks' time from now, the decision is going to be made about what kind of memorial is going to stand on the site. And a lot of the those families -- I'm sure everyone else is getting the same response from them -- are very concerned about what's going to happen there because they have seen the choice for a design for the towers be somewhat changed since the decision was made because of commercial concerns, competing interests.
Could you tell me what your perfect memorial would be, and how would you reassure families that they are going to get some say in what stands on the site?
MR. GIULIANI: Well, I'll tell you my view of what the memorial should be has been the same since I left office and it hasn't changed. And the main purpose of that site should be to appropriately remember September 11, 2001, and not commercialism. That should be the overriding purpose.
I can't design it because I'm not a designer or an architect, but I know the right design if I see it and I haven't seen it yet. The right design is one that gives you, as a dominant feeling, what happened that day. And here's what I think has been wrong with the design, if I can. I can only do this conceptually because I'm not -- like I said, I'm not an artist.
The designs to date have mostly been about replacing office towers, and then, as an afterthought, having a memorial. It should work the other way around. The major impact of this design should be remembering and giving you a spirit of September 11th, and then if there is room for office space, then you squeeze the office space in. It should be the office space that's squeezed in, if at all, and not the memorial.
And here's why I came to that conclusion when I was the Mayor. I even think that's in the economic best interest of the city because I think that site will be a site that people will visit from all of your countries for years and years and years. And you create that kind of traffic, numbers of people, and that becomes the basis on which your economic revitalization takes place. But it doesn't go against the grain, it flows with it, and I am very empathetic with the families.
I feel that their desire to make certain that the main part of the site is preserved down to its bedrock is absolutely understandable. You know, I meet with them -- and so does Tom -- various family members, on a pretty regular basis; and we lost a lot of friends there, and some of them are buried there. I mean, they weren't recovered. The firefighter who was buried the other day, it was only because he had donated blood that his family had something to bury.
So I think you've got to take that into consideration. You can't just push that aside, and then you have to focus on it with a sense of history; 30 or 40 or 50 years from now, people are going to want to go see it. And if what they see is a little memorial and a bunch of office buildings that could be anywhere, they are going to have a very strange impression of our generation.
They are going to think that all we thought about was the commercial aspect of it. They're going to say, well, maybe that was the era in which that sort of predominated and these people didn't understand the historical significance of the worst attack on the history of America and the bravest response. I mean, there are two parts to this that are enormously contradictory and can be endlessly examined.
It was one of the most shocking and horrific attacks, certainly the worst in the history of America; and it was the most incredibly spontaneous brave response, not just by the firefighters, who Tom led, and the police officers, but all the civilians and all these people helping each other, and the sense of unity that came out of it. So you have got to recapture that -- a museum, interactive exhibits, a library and a memorial.
One of the people on the committee is the person who designed the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, D.C. And look, that was very controversial, a lot of people opposed it, but look at what that's done for Washington. That's been -- it almost seemed impossible to have another memorial in Washington that would be equal to the Lincoln and the Washington and the Jefferson, and here this may be the most -- the one that's seen the most now. |
SBD |
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LewWaters
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Conspiracy theorists are still grasping at straws, all their other conspiracies being so thoroughly debunked.
If you recall, the day was very hectic and confusing. All day we heard reports of fears the building would most likely collapse. I sure remember them. However, the BBC and CNN both did report the collapse prior to it actually happening.
If you recall, the media also initially reported a small plane had hit the buildings, not highjacked airliners. A SNAFU, as could be expected given the mass confusion of the day.
BBC did an internal investigation of their report and can be found at;
Part of the Conspiracy?
Part of the Conspiracy? (2)
As expected, conspiracy theorists don't accept a word of it.
Another excellent debunking of the WTC 7 collapse, including the BBC gaffe can be found at Debunking 9/11 WTC 7 towards the bottom of the page. The rest is exceptional too.
I hope you don't expect any of the conspiracy theorists to change their minds, though. We can't let facts get in their way.
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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the scariest thought of all this is that these people get to vote.
Dusty
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Well...you can add Rosie O'Donnell to the ranks of the lunatic fringe (if you haven'y already). She was promoting this WT7 angle on her program this morning. |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | Well...you can add Rosie O'Donnell to the ranks of the lunatic fringe (if you haven'y already). She was promoting this WT7 angle on her program this morning. |
I don't mind being called a conspiracy theorist, but getting lumped in with Rosie is a bit too much to handle.
Please explain to me how debris from a building that supposedly pancaked onto itself was hurled over 2 other buildings and hit building seven and caused a fire?
Please explain how a building can collaspe at freefall speed and pancake without any resistance at all?
Please explain to me why no other steel frame buildings have ever collasped due to fire including the one in Madrid that burnt for 20 hours and had its' steel frame still standing?
Please explain to me why there were reports that wtc7 was going to collaspe due to fire when no such event has ever occured anywhere in the world before?
Please explain to me why the Banker's Trust building which was closer and suffered damage as well did not collaspe or catch fire?
Please explain to me why molten steal was found at ground zero for months after 911?
Please explain to me how the strongest military and technological country in the world could not protect its' own air space for several hours on 911?
Please explain to me why our jet fighters back in 1999 and in 2000 were immediately scrambled to escort planes off course, but on 911 they were no where to be found?
Does anyone here think that I seriously want to believe that something is not right with what happened with 911?
Does anyone here think that I want to prove the official story is false?
Again, if you do believe that, that is your right, but please don't put me in the same league as Rosie for crying out loud! 
| Quote: | Plane Hijacked from Cuban Airspace Down in Florida Straight; Condition of 18 Onboard Unknown CNN September 19, 2000; Tuesday
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Natalie, as you can imagine, any time a plane, an unauthorized plane, is heading towards the United States, it does trigger the U.S. standard operating procedure for intercepting that plane.
In this case, it started about 9:00 this morning. Let's back up a little bit. According to the Air Force, they say this Cuban plane, an An-2, Colt, took off at about 8:45 a.m. from Cuba, and that by 9:00, just 15 minutes later, Havana reported that it had lost control -- contact with the plane. It notified the Miami air traffic control center of that.
About a little less than an hour later, at 9:54 a.m., this morning, two U.S. Air Force F-15s were scrambled from Homestead Air Force Base, Florida to intercept the plane. Those F-15s are from the Air National Guard, home-based in Jacksonville, Florida.
At about the same time, a U.S. Air Force AWACS airborne early warning control plane was diverted from a routine training mission over the United States. That plane, from Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma was sent down to try to see if it could help locate the plane. Of course, an AWACS plane, highly sophisticated radar surveillance plane is used to track aircraft in the sky.
A short time later, at about 10:20 a.m., this morning, the Air Force also dispatched a KC-135 refueling jet. That was to allow the two F-15s to stay up in the air so they could continue to get fuel from that jet. |
| Quote: | Golfer Payne Stewart Among Dead in Learjet Crash CNN October 25, 1999; Monday 3:00 pm Eastern Time
BATTISTA: Susan., let me ask quickly, why was the U.S. military called in to intercept this plane? Is that standard procedure?
COUGHLIN: Well, I think that initially the military -- or when the FAA reported that they'd lost contact with the airplane, the military's role, initially, is to determine friend-or-foe status. And once they've made the determination that this is an aircraft in distress, then their mission really diverts from trying to determine whether this was friend -- friendly aircraft to seeing if there is any assistance that they can provide to the crew. So, no, it's really not -- it's not an unusual exercise for the military when they're requested -- services are requested by the FAA. |
| Quote: | Golfer Payne Stewart has died after his plane crashed CTV Television, Inc. October 25, 1999
Copyright 1999 CTV Television, Inc.
CTV Television, Inc.
SHOW: CTV NATIONAL NEWS
October 25, 1999 23:00:00 - 23:30:00 Eastern Time
LENGTH: 880 words
HEADLINE: Golfer Payne Stewart has died after his plane crashed
ANCHOR: LLOYD ROBERTSON
BODY:
LLOYD ROBERTSON: Good evening. Experts in the United States are tonight investigating the cause of one of the most mysterious plane crashes on record. A crash which claimed the life of championship golfer Payne Stewart and several other people travelling with him. Stewart was a passenger onboard a Learjet flight from Orlando, Florida, to Dallas, Texas, that became a ghost flight to disaster, ending halfway across the country in South Dakota. All on board were killed. But officials say it appears they died long before their plane crashed having lost the oxygen they needed to breath. CTV's Alan Fryer now on an erie odyssey.
ALAN FRYER [Reporter]: In a field in South Dakota, the doomed flight came to a violent and fiery end, golf champion Payne Stewart and four others on board.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: They kind of took a loop up in the air, just kind of like a flip and started spiralling right down.
FRYER: Whatever went wrong went wrong quickly. Radio contact with the Learjet was lost twenty minutes after it took off from Orlando. Instead of turning west as planned towards Dallas, the Lear, its pilots and passengers either dead or incapacitated, flew blindly over the American heartland. Shortly after radio contact was lost, fighter jets were scrambled to look for the plane. They intercepted it but saw no sign of life inside.
CAPT CHRIS HAMILTON [F-16 Pilot]: The cockpit wind screen looked opaque and it looked as if you could see a car window when it's fogged or frosted on the inside.
FRYER: All the fighters could do was shadow the jet until it ran out of fuel and crashed. Investigators who are now at the crash site believe the plane may have suffered a sudden loss of pressure, something Learjet pilots are well trained to deal with.
CRAIG SPILLER [Learjet Pilot]: The scenario should take less than ten seconds.
FRYER: But if it happens at very high altitudes, and the Lear flies higher than most passenger planes do, a pilot might have less than five seconds to respond.
DR. RICHARD WALDHORN [Georgetown University]: It's possible they could have lost consciousness very quickly before they were able to recognize what was going on.
FRYER: And for hours before the crash, the Pentagon and the White House wrestled with one question - what to do if it looks as if the plane might crash in a populated area. The F-16s that were shadowing the plane were not carrying missiles but armed fighters were ready had the decision been taken to shoot the plane down. It's a decision the President was never asked to make. Alan Fryer, CTV News, Washington. |
SBD |
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SBD
Admiral
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are commited to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers. We stand with the Scholars and Veterans for Truth along side family members of the victims -- family members of soldiers who have given the ultimate sacrifice -- including the many Ground Zero workers who are now ill or have passed away, when we ask for a new independent investigation into the events of 9/11. We do not accept the 9/11 Commission report as a satisfactory explanation for the sacrifice every American has made and continues to make -- some more than others.
Thank you for taking the time to inform yourself.
| Quote: | PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
03/26/07
PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
Contact: Robert Balsamo
e-mail: pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org
OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11 FLIGHT CONTRADICTED BY GOVERNMENT'S OWN DATA
Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain their 2002 report, "Flight Path Study-American Airlines Flight 77", consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 77's Flight Data Recorder (FDR).
The data provided by the NTSB contradict the 9/11 Commission Report in several significant ways:
The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.
All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.
The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.
The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.
If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.
In August, 2006, members of Pilots for 9/11 Truth received these documents from the NTSB and began a close analysis of the data they contain. After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth has concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001.
According to the 9/11 Commission Report, which relied heavily upon the NTSB Flight Path Study, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon at 9:37:46 AM on the morning of September 11, 2001. However, the reported impact time according to the NTSB Flight Path Study is 09:37:45. Also according to reports, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and by doing so, struck down 5 light poles on Highway 27 in its path to the west wall.
The information provided by the NTSB does not support the 9/11 Commission Report of American Airlines Flight 77 impact with the Pentagon.
Pilots for 9/11 Truth is committed to discovering the truth surrounding the events of September 11, 2001. We have contacted both the NTSB and the FBI regarding these and other inconsistencies. To date, they have refused to comment on, correct, refute, retract or offer side-letters that might explain the discrepancies between what they claim are the data extracted from the FDR of AA Flight 77 and the official story alleging its crash into the Pentagon.
As concerned citizens and professionals in the aviation industry, Pilots for 9/11 Truth asks, why have these discrepancies not been addressed by agencies within the United States Government? Why have they falsely represented their own data to the American people? Pilots for 9/11 Truth takes the position that an official government inquiry into these discrepancies is warranted and long overdue. We call upon our fellow citizens to write to their Congressional representatives to inform them of these discrepancies and call for an immediate investigation into this matter. For more information please visit pilotsfor911truth.org.
Signed:
Robert Balsamo
4000+ Total Flight Time
Former:
Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines
Glen Stanish
15,000+ Total Flight Time
American Airlines, ATA, TWA, Continental
Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret)
30,000+ Total Flight Time
Former Pan Am, United
United States Air Force (ret)
Over 100 Combat Missions Flown
John Lear
Son of Bill Lear
Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation
More than 40 years of Flying
19,000+ Total Flight Time
Captain Jeff Latas
USAF (ret)
Captain - JetBlue Airways
Ted Muga
Naval Aviator - Retired Commander, USNR
Col Robert Bowman USAF (ret)
Directed all the �Star Wars� programs under Presidents Ford and Carter - 101 combat missions
Alfons Olszewski
Founder Veterans For Truth
US Army (ret)
Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief
Robin Hordon
Former Boston Center Controller
Commercial Pilot
John Panarelli
Friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski - Capt. AA #11
11,000+ Total Flight Time
Eastern Metro, Braniff, Ryan International, Emery
Worldwide, Polar Air Cargo
Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
United States Marine Corps (ret)
10,000+ Total Flight Time
303 Combat Missions
Captain Dan Govatos
10,000+ Total Flight Time
Former Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines
Director of Operations Training at Polar Air
George Nelson
Colonel USAF (Ret.)
Licensed Commercial Pilot and Aircraft Mechanic
Dennis Spear
Army Aviator (ret)
7000+ Total Flight Time Operations Officer, Aviation Safety Officer
Captain Joe H. Ferguson
30,000+ Total Flight Time (ret) USAF (ret)
For complete member list please visit http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html
ENCLOSURE: Cover letter of FOIA requests. |
SBD |
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| SBD wrote: | I don't mind being called a conspiracy theorist, but getting lumped in with Rosie is a bit too much to handle.
<snip lotsa stuff that gives me a headache>
Does anyone here think that I seriously want to believe that something is not right with what happened with 911?
Does anyone here think that I want to prove the official story is false?
Again, if you do believe that, that is your right, but please don't put me in the same league as Rosie for crying out loud! |
Hey SBD...whatever floats yer boat man. As for me, I think I'll exit stage left...TYVM. |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:14 am Post subject: |
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SBD, maybe in light of the evidence being presented by the Pilots of 9/11 group we should just outright dismiss the (many) eyewitness accounts of what they saw. Maybe they just imagined the whole thing.
Eyewitness
Dusty
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: |
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As the wife of a pilot, I can attest to the fact that they ain't all eggzackly sane. (husband excepted, of course!  )
And a formerly extremely gullible person (who actually froke out when she first read about "shadow governments!"  how embarrassing!) I can attest to the fact that not every signature on the internet is attached to an actual person, and that when such actual persons do exist, they are not necessarily the persons who signed any given document.
Make them prove it to you beyond a shadow of a doubt, SBD. The burden of proof is on the person who makes the wacky claim, not the people who don't believe them.
Ask questions until they have a headache and never assume that they are telling the truth about the most insignificant or mundane detail.
In other words, act as if it were John Kerry telling you this stuff.
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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LewWaters
Admin
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Posts: 4042
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:01 am Post subject: |
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SBD, everything you asked concerning the collapse of WTC 7 wa addressed and shown at the final link I provided you.
Many things conspiracy theorists embrace about the building just are not in the facts.
To begin with, the building was indeed on fire. There was a gash on the front side of the building that was some one-third of the building front. The building did not fall straight down, as claimed and is shown by the debris field after the collapse and the damage done to the building behind it.
Read the information at the last link I supplied.
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Flight 800 shot down by Islamofascists during the Clinton years is much more plausible. SBD, I would not be surprised to learn the Bush Administration covered Saudi footprints in regards to 911, but actually assisted in taking down the towers is not something a God fearing man would be involved in and I firmly believe Bush believes in God.
Btw, I do not believe our Islamofascist enemy has any faith in God.
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"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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SBD - I would never EVER classify you in with Rosie... not ever!
I really like the idea of viewing it as it's Kerry telling you...question it inside out, upside down, around the front and back.... and then still be suspicious.
I do have to say when reading the post here... it said the flight something and the commission report were 1 sec different. that probably means a lot in flight time...to me I'm thinking who cares?
I lose days at a time and can't account for them... I certainly would be no good testifying under oath to what I did 10 mins. ago... losing a sec is a blink of my eye... and I don't even know it happens!
I wouldn't be surprised at all if stuff in the report is incorrect... I don't even trust those on the commission... and btw,
what was Sandy Berger hiding? Clinton really must have been up to no good....
could he be the antiChrist? (i'm serious here...that has crossed my mind several times...)
I think i've heard of the 'shadow' gov...i know what you mean by it...I've read up on the 'shadow' church...
still, w/o the proof Rosie shouldn't be sprewing that stuff on nat'l tiv.... just gives our enemy more to use against us.
and until dead people start showing up around Bush, I'll still think if anyone here had anything to do with it - it's Clinton...
oh, and bldg 7 coming down doesn't surprise me at all... I think I remember (???) something about that - it was unstable and dangerous to those working around the area? better we would take it down then under controlled conditions.
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Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Whew. |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I would also never lump you or anyone from here in with rossie odonnell...
I was just watching her explaining away the British soldiers taken hostage and was ammazed she is still on the tube.
SBD you ask allot of interesting questions, most of which I could not adress. The one though about other mettle buildings colapsing/not colapsing I think I might have some insight into.
A few years back I screwed up lighting a fire a christmas with one of those pourous bricks you soak in Kerosene. After using it, the fire of wet wood was not yet lit. I foolishly took the brick back outside and refilled it with about a 1/2 cup of fuel and carefully put it back in the fireplace. The reaction was immediate and awesome. The chimney was turned into a roaring jet engine with the flames coming out the front of the fireplace reaching the ceiling and going all the way out the top of the chimney. The roaring noise was like constant thunder. Thank god I did not burn down the house.
All this was from les then a cup of kerosene...... a full jetliner of fuell would be a whole lot of fire and heat, I'd think enough to melt just about anything.
As a building of that size collapsed, once it got going I think it would go effortlessly, like the Tsunammi's we saw the other year.
You still remain one those I respect the utmost from here or anywhere on the web! |
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Fort Campbell
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