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Why is Kerry's service 30 yrs ago an issue NOW?
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 01 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep! Classic left wing logic. Ignore the facts and shoot the messenger.

Corsi is hired writer....not a principal. Swiftvets provide the facts with sworn statements, Corsi writes it, O'Neill edits. Difference with us we don't use ghost writers and claim we wrote it ourselves.

BTW, if think Media Matters is a reliable source anything....have some more kool-aid.
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Last edited by ASPB on Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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coldwarvet
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“If we do not learn from our mistakes we are destined to repeat them.”

I asked my three sons 21,19 & 17 what they were taught about the Vietnam Veterans Against War movement. They hadn’t even heard about it. The really sad part of it is my oldest son is in his senior year in a U of MN mass communications program.

I believe that this part of American history should be taught in all our public schools as an example of how much power the media has and what kind of damage can be inflicted when it is dishonest.
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carpro
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Joined: 10 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
But, according to the SwiftVets For Truth website, this SWFT is a "non-partisan organization"... Which is it?

(non-partisan taken from the SVFT FAQ page, item #17)


Non partisan meaning not connected to either the Republican or Democrat party.

It's very united in a partisan way against John Kerry as CIC. Very Happy
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RocketFett
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA, you sound like a terry mccauliffe talking point. When has kerry ran on the issues? He has only mentioned grandiose plans with NO meat to them and no explaination as to HOW he will do the things he says he will do.

How has he ran on his Senate record? He's avoided his senate record in this campaign like it was a type of cancer or something. He doesn't talk about his opposition to the Lacy and Connor act. Because most Amercans supported it's proper passage into law.

He opposed the Defense Of Marriage Act. And he doesn't talk about that because overwhelmingly, over 70% of AMericans support traditional marriage, and strongly oppose any kind of gay marriage or civil union.

He doesn't get into specifics of his tax plan, which the truth of it proves he will roll back ALL the Bush tax cuts. And he will raise the marginal rates to clintonian levels, killing any kind of incentive for business owners to expand business, and thereby reducing the jobs available.

He talk about his voting record in the military and intelligence areas. He's voted against EVERY major weapons system in the U.S. Senate. The AH-64A and B Apache.

He voted against the M1-A1, A2, and A3 abrams,
he voted against the Arliegh Burke class Guided Missile Destroyers,
he voted against the Nimitz and Improved Nimitz class Super Aircraft carriers,
He voted against the Sea Wolf class Fast Attack nuclear submaries,
He voted against the F/A-18A and E models of the Hornet and Super Hornet,
He voted against the M-2A Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle.
He voted against the Predator unmanned vehicle,
He voted against the F-16C Falcon Fighter
He voted against the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber
He voted against the JDAM
He voted against the Tomahawk Surface to Surface and anti-ship missiles,
He voted against the Patriot anti-missile air defense system,
He voted against the UH-60B Blackhawk transport helicopter,
He voted against the F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighter,
He voted against the F-22A Raptor Air Superiority fighter,

and those are just the ones I remembered in the top of my head! He's voted against more than those, and ALL of those systems, and soon to be the F-22, have been CRITICAL in the war on terror, and every other military action that has taken place since the very early 90s. How exactly has he owned up to that? If it had been up to him, the military would be fighting right now with 30+ year old weapons systems and platforms, and then we'd be seeing some DEVESTATINGLY SERIOUS casualties in the war on Terror. Has he been running on that record?

And of course, he voted for the war before voting against it.

He voted againt the first Gulf War to remove Iraq from it's illegal invasion and occupation of Kuwait, while Kuwaities were being raped and beaten and murdered, and the nation pillaged for all it was worth, kerry voted against stopping that. I haven't seen him running on that vote.

He has said clearly that if he's elected president he will re-enact the Mexico City Accord, which will immediately pour hundreds of millions of dollars world wide to fund abortions to whatever countries want it, and whoever has it regardless of age or reason. So he's going to spend the tax money of people who are pro-life, and not give them any say in that. he hasn't been campaigning on that little factoid that he said on Larry King Live. His words.

He's run somewhat on his support for stem cell research, but only to placate the pro-death . pro-abortion liberals. But he hasn't talked much about his desire to further embryonic tissue research, and that means the government will be harvesting aborted fetuses from all over to do that research. Why doesn't he put that out there?

He talks about health care for all Americans, but he doesn't mention the little point that if that happens, NO ONE will EVER be able to file a malpractice suit against a doctor who kills your baby, or cuts off the wrong limb or seriously disfigures you, or kills your spouse or whatever BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SUE FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, and if there is govenment healthcare for all, they will be federal employees and protected from ALL malpractice suits. Why isn't he telling the truth about that little tid bit?

SO, I just gave you a TON Of things that he both avoiding in his "campaign" and things that he is campaigning on but being very misleading and far from truthful on. So tell me exactly what Senate record is he running on huh? His Vietnam record is a joke and he's a liar and that's been proven here to the point that no one can rationally dispute it. So please, do tell us all how exactly MR. kerry has been running on the issues and his record? It should be an amusing reply. Or maybe you can just calls us all radical conservatives instead of actually disputing some facts we all present. I wonder if liberals ever get embarrassed because they can't disprove facts put to them against kerry.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ASPB wrote:
Yep! Classic left wing logic. Ignore the facts and shoot the messenger.

Corsi is hired writer....not a principal. Swiftvets provide the facts with sworn statements, Corsi writes it, O'Neill edits. Difference with us we don't use ghost writers and claim we wrote it ourselves.

BTW, if think Media Matters is a reliable source anything....have some more kool-aid.


Stop hiding behind half-truths APSB... the truth is coming out and it's slowly starting to hurt the SwiftVets. John Corsi is about as ardent a anti-liberal as you can find... and John O'Neill's status as the prime Kerry antagonist since 1971 is very well documented since John O'Neill's days with Vietnam Veterans for Just Peace.

Interestingly enough... you want me to disregard John Kerry's presidential bid for things he said 30 years ago... but I'm supposed to ignore statements made by John Corsi made in the past year or two? Is hypocrite spelled with a Y or an I? I always forget...
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RocketFett... you accuse me of spouting "talking points"? Methinks thou dost protest too much.

I think this quote is quite telling of John Kerry:

"After completing 20 planes for which we have begun procurement, we will shut down further production of the B-2 bomber. We will cancel the small ICBM program. We will cease production of new warheads for our sea-based ballistic missiles. We will stop all new production of the Peacekeeper [MX] missile. And we will not purchase any more advanced cruise missiles. … The reductions I have approved will save us an additional $50 billion over the next five years. By 1997 we will have cut defense by 30 percent since I took office." - 1992

I think what is said above is exactly what you're talking about, no?
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want you to ignore the rest of Kerry's failures as a public servant.

This is just one bi-partisan response to character flaws 35 years ago. Plenty of other place to find.....the rest of the story. You can start with Congressional record.
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RocketFett
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So John A, in your opinon, the guy doesn't have the right to go on a web site and say what he really thinks huh? But you're all for free speech right? Whatever. And your radical left side is CERTAINLY never guilty of name calling or hate speech or anything like that right? Certainly not. I guess it's all been a bad dream seeing the popular left wing media, the democrat party, and the hollywood elite, all disconnected from real America by the way, as they've been constantly doing nothing but rip the President up one side and down the other huh? all the moore and soros and goldberg stuff hasn't been happening right? And it hasn't been said a million times that Bush is so stupid. But, then he's supposed to be smart enough that he misled the world about Iraq, and it was months before anyone figured it out. Yeah right. So what is it, is he the smartest guy in the world, or the sutpidest, because depending on what the accusation is, he's both. If anyone is guilty of unbridled hate mongoring without the benefit of cold hard facts and first hand actual witnessed accounts of the accusations being made, it's the left liberal communist endorsed democrat party like the john kerrys of the world.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RocketFett... I did a little research about John Kerry's military voting record...

Click Here For The Full Article


"Almost all of them [the weapons systems listed by RocketFett] cite Kerry's vote on Senate bill S. 3189 (CQ Vote No. 273) on Oct. 15, 1990. Do a Google search, and you will learn that S. 3189 was the Fiscal Year 1991 Defense Appropriations Act, and CQ Vote No. 273 was a vote on the entire bill. There was no vote on those weapons systems specifically.

On a couple of the weapons, the RNC report cites H.R. 5803 and H.R. 2126. Look those up. They turn out to be votes on the House-Senate conference committee reports for the defense appropriations bills in October 1990 (the same year as S. 3189) and September 1995.

In other words, Kerry was one of 16 senators (including five Republicans) to vote against a defense appropriations bill 14 years ago. He was also one of an unspecified number of senators to vote against a conference report on a defense bill nine years ago. The RNC takes these facts and extrapolates from them that he voted against a dozen weapons systems that were in those bills. The Republicans could have claimed, with equal logic, that Kerry voted to abolish the entire U.S. armed forces, but that might have raised suspicions. Claiming that he opposed a list of specific weapons systems has an air of plausibility. On close examination, though, it reeks of rank dishonesty. "
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 01 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
RocketFett... you accuse me of spouting "talking points"? Methinks thou dost protest too much.

I think this quote is quite telling of John Kerry:

"After completing 20 planes for which we have begun procurement, we will shut down further production of the B-2 bomber. We will cancel the small ICBM program. We will cease production of new warheads for our sea-based ballistic missiles. We will stop all new production of the Peacekeeper [MX] missile. And we will not purchase any more advanced cruise missiles. … The reductions I have approved will save us an additional $50 billion over the next five years. By 1997 we will have cut defense by 30 percent since I took office." - 1992

I think what is said above is exactly what you're talking about, no?


Yeah! Except Kerry didn't say it and he pressed for cuts greater than mentioned. Quit playing games will you?
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RocketFett
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA, your comment doesn't even make any sense. How exacty is what I said a talking point? It's all true and on the record. If you don't have the honestly to either admit what I said is true, and can't disprove any of it because you KNOW it's true, then your posts are worthless. Is there a reason you TOTALLY bypassed all of the facts I cited and didn't even touch on any of them? It is on the record that he voted against all of those things in the Senate, and is on the record stating all the things I've said. So is your argument so weak that you can't even stand to admit it? You didn't touch a thing I said, and it's all on the record. The truth isn't subjective. It's the truth. And these Vets know the truth. You don't have to like it, but it is the truth.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RocketFett wrote:
So John A, in your opinon, the guy doesn't have the right to go on a web site and say what he really thinks huh?


Please, show me where I even may have intimated such an idea. I'm not sure where you got this from, but it sure looks to be made of straw to me. He can say anything he likes. But, that doesn't mean his very words can't be repeated for all to hear... and if that makes you or him uncomfortable... that's not really my fault is it now?

RocketFett wrote:
But you're all for free speech right? Whatever. And your radical left side is CERTAINLY never guilty of name calling or hate speech or anything like that right? Certainly not.


I grew up in a family that respected people for who they are not hating groups of people for what religion or race they belong to. Perhaps my family brought me up to be some kind of soft liberal pansy with that philosophy, but I must say I'll happily punch anyone in the mouth for saying so. I have one name I call... "Cheap Labor Republicans." Because I believe that that is what the Republican Party stands for, cheap labor. Otherwise, I don't need any other names because I have facts and links to back up my statements.

RocketFett wrote:
I guess it's all been a bad dream seeing the popular left wing media, the democrat party, and the hollywood elite, all disconnected from real America by the way, as they've been constantly doing nothing but rip the President up one side and down the other huh?


Yes, it has been quite disheartening to see the Democratic Party act like the Republican Party has been acting since the 1990's. But, that is what seems to work (as proven by the current make-up of our federal government).

RocketFett wrote:
all the moore and soros and goldberg stuff hasn't been happening right? And it hasn't been said a million times that Bush is so stupid. But, then he's supposed to be smart enough that he misled the world about Iraq, and it was months before anyone figured it out. Yeah right. So what is it, is he the smartest guy in the world, or the sutpidest, because depending on what the accusation is, he's both.


I don't know? You're the one making this accusation, not me... answer your own damned questions instead of trying to paint me with your questions colored straw yellow.


RocketFett wrote:
If anyone is guilty of unbridled hate mongoring without the benefit of cold hard facts and first hand actual witnessed accounts of the accusations being made, it's the left liberal communist endorsed democrat party like the john kerrys of the world.


So, that is what this site is really about? "Left liberal 'communists'" like me? Your hatred so envelops you that people who serve or served in the military like myself and my father and my grandfather think that the republican plan for our country is more destructive than constructive that you'll say whatever the RNC tells you to say?

RocketFett wrote:
And by the way. Bush is so stupid that he got out of Yale with ALL A's and went on to Harvard to get his Masters, and kerry got out with all C's. So if Bush is stupid, kerry is brain dead.


Interesting, when I mentioned President Bush in an earlier post, it was marked out by the moderator... I wonder if this same non-partisan moderator who wanted civility will edit your post also...
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RocketFett
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It couldn't matter LESS that most of the weapons systems at times were clustered together in one defense appropriations bill. That's how MOST ALL bills are, with multiple things in them, not just one. Nothing would get passed. But the fact is, he opposed passage of these bills in question,a nd he opposed the appropriations of these weapons systems I mentioned and more. Your point is dubious at best, and proves nothing.

BY THE WAY! johnny kerry was on the pre-9-11 Senate Intelligence committee that the 9-11 committee said was most at fault for the lapses that allowed the attacks to occur. Including john edwards who was also ont he committee and still is. So, what possible credibility can he possibly have in the area of national defence, when he was part of the committee, and a ranking member no less, that has been found to be the one body most complicit in security lapses that led to the 9-11 attacks. He can't even take the time to take security and intelligence briefings whil on vacation. Bush hasn't had a vacation since he took office. When he leaves the White House, the White House goes with him and he constantly has briefings and is making decisions. What decisions has kerry been making? The guy can't even find his way to the Senate and has missed over 88% of the Senate votes the past year while he collects his Senate salary, and that's a violaton of Senate rules and he should have been kicked out of the Senate just for that. Some great Senate record. The only vote recently he's showed up to make was to vote AGAINST the Lacy and Connor act, when clearly over 70% of America supported that bill, and he opposed it. But hey, if you think he'd be a good President even though he's the most flaming liberal politician in the Senate EVER, and is backed and endorced by the World Communist Party and Red China, as well as the terrorists themselves, then I guess it's clear where you stand.

You STILL haven't been able to disprove anything that anyone has said here. You just try to smear the edges and be less than totally truthful. Or did you dispute the facts, before you ignored them? kerry people seem to be really good and doing and not doing something at the same time.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ASPB wrote:
Yeah! Except Kerry didn't say it and he pressed for cuts greater than mentioned. Quit playing games will you?


I have a quote... albeit from President George H. W. Bush, which makes my point that the same argument people like you are making (that John Kerry voted against weapon systems) could be equally applied to the current Vice-President who was Secretary of Defense at the end of the Cold War when republicans and democrats alike were cutting the military.

I just find it interesting that I have a quote yet you cite no source for Kerry "press[ing] for cuts greater than mentioned." I think we know why you don't have a source.
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