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soccer4ever Lieutenant
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 214 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: Novak reviews Unfit for Command |
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August 9, 2004
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The television ad that aroused the wrath of John McCain and journalist supporters of John Kerry just begins deconstruction of the Democratic presidential candidate's war record. "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," a 214-page critique of his performance in Vietnam and the antiwar movement, is off the presses ahead of schedule.
I have read the book and found it is neither the political propaganda nor the urban legend that its detractors claim. It is a passionate but meticulously researched account of how Kerry went to war, what he did in the war and how he conducted himself after the war. The very serious charges by former comrades deserve answers but so far have produced only ad hominem counterattacks.
Why should details of what Kerry did more than 30 years ago be part of this election campaign? Only because the senator has made them integral to his strategy. Kerry as war hero received more attention at the Democratic National Convention than plans for the future. Thus, what he did in his shortened four months of combat becomes a valid campaign issue.
John E. O'Neill, co-author of "Unfit for Command," replaced Kerry as commander of Swift Boat PCF 94 in 1969 and has been confronting him since 1971. O'Neill told me he is no George W. Bush partisan and probably would have supported John Edwards had he been nominated for president, but is committed to keeping Kerry out of the Oval Office. Thus, reversing the usual formulation, the assault on Kerry is personal but not political.
O'Neill told me neither he nor his co-author (Jerome R. Corsi, a writer and expert on the Vietnam antiwar movement) has had contact with the Bush White House or the Bush-Cheney campaign. He said he and Corsi, on their own initiative, went to conservative Regnery Publishing to offer the book.
The co-authors paint Kerry as a reluctant warrior. Contrary to claims by Kerry's supporters that he served two combat hitches in Vietnam, his one-year term aboard a guided missile frigate was far from action. His four months in the brown water navy were terminated eight months early by a third Purple Heart wound, none of which required hospitalization.
The book's strength is the vehemence of testimony by swift boat veterans, alleging that Kerry "gamed" the system to win decorations and later betrayed comrades by charging war crimes. Typical is the quote by Bob Hildreth, commanding an accompanying boat: "I would never want Kerry behind me. I wouldn't want him in front of me, either. And I sure wouldn't want him commanding our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan." Some 200 "Swiftees" on May 4 signed a letter to Kerry demanding full release of his service records.
The book's weakness is support for Kerry's presidential campaign by his swift boat crewmates, presumably people who knew him best. O'Neill told me that these former sailors served with Kerry no more than five weeks. Jim Rassmann, now part of the Kerry presidential campaign, was a Special Forces lieutenant spending a few days with Kerry when he fell or was knocked off the swift boat while under fire and was fished out of the Mekong River by the future candidate.
The "band of brothers" was organized by Kerry, according to this book. It tells of a 2003 telephone call to Adm. Roy Hoffmann, who commanded swift boats in Vietnam, telling him he was running for president. Hoffmann, mistakenly thinking it was former Sen. Bob Kerrey, "responded enthusiastically." Once the admiral realized it was John Kerry, "he declined to give Kerry his support." Hoffmann is quoted as saying, "I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States."
"Unfit for Command" sends a devastating message, unless effectively refuted. Perhaps most disturbing are allegations that Kerry's combat decorations are unjustified. His first Purple Heart, the book alleges, was accidentally self-inflicted. His commander, Grant Hibbard, is quoted as saying: "I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself." Full release of documents demanded by his critics could settle this claim quickly if it is unwarranted.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/printrn20040809.shtml _________________ Share the passion: http://www.MLSnet.com |
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jack white Seaman
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 179
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Novak missed an obvious point. Kerry could refute false allegations if he released his military records. |
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CuriousGeorge Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 46
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well?
Aren't both sides playing that game?
Edited by Moderator: Discussions about Kerry, pro and con welcome. Bush doesn't matter.
Also, the Swifties have theirs closed right?(saw a reference in the FAQ). Would it not help the cause if they opened theirs and said "We have nothing to hide......"
If the President opened his then Kerry looses his exuse. |
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Prove your statement about closed records! Do you think anyone in the group speaking out don't know that they may have to open their records.
Call for that after Kerry opens his. _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Grampa Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 143 Location: Eureka, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yes you could collect a pay stub but it would show No Pay Due if the duty wasn't performed. But that still doesn't tell whther or not someone was AWOL.
You see, I have been doing National Guard payroll, as well as my other duties as a training NCO, for about 13 years.
The Bush was AWOL charge is phony. His commander cleared him to perform the duty at a later date and his pay records show that he performed enough alternate service to qualify for "good" years for retirement.
Even if he hadn't performed the duty, if his CO didn't charge him as AWOL, he wasn't AWOL. Period. That is the Commanders discretion, not the Democratic National Committees or Michael Moores.
What often happens is someone is authorized to perform the duty either at a different location or on a different date and the person, doesn't or cannot perform it, the CO can authorise the SM to be carried Absent: Leave and not get paid if the reason for not performing the duty is acceptable. a SM has to make up the missed duty within a certain time frame, usually 90 days, to get credit for retirement and get paid. If they don't, the pay code has to be changed to a non-contructive pay code; either Absent:Leave or AWOL.
Even if he hadn't performed the duty, if his CO didn't charge him as AWOL, he wasn't AWOL. Period. That is the Commanders discretion, not the Democratic National Committees or Michael Moores.
He may not have a "good" year, but he certainly wasn't AWOL.
Example: I've had guys authorized a substitute training period due to being out of state on a job. When they couldn't make it due to the job or lack of a drilling unit near them, the CO often authorizes a duty code change to absent:leave so the guy is covered. This is of course dependent on past performance. If it happens to a good soldier the CO will cut them slack. Conversly, if it is a habitually poor soldier, the CO may choose to hammer him. Again, COs discretion.
I'll bet thats exactly what happened to GW in the ANG when he was working for a political campaign back in the 70's. One would be on the road alot and not available for the weekend duty.
But, the Democrats and their running dog lackeys in the media are counting on a lack of knowledge by the public of the rules for attendance of NG duty to lie about Bushes service. _________________ Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home! |
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jack white Seaman
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 179
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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If I recall, top Democrats (including Kerry) demanded Bush release his records. So wouldn't it only be fair that Kerry release his as an example to us all? I mean, if the senator is being unfairly maligned he could kill two birds with one stone, right? |
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CuriousGeorge Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 46
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: | Prove your statement about closed records! Do you think anyone in the group speaking out don't know that they may have to open their records.
Call for that after Kerry opens his. |
Well I saw the moderator edit about the President is not a valid discussion so.......
But to the Swifties: From their faq
16. How can you demand that Senator Kerry release his records when you refuse to release your own?
We are not candidates to be Commander in Chief of the U.S. Armed Services. We are acting on principle -– namely the principle that the public has the right to know the details of Senator Kerry’s service. We believe that as a candidate for Commander-in-Chief, Senator Kerry has an obligation to disclose those records.
Again all I am saying would it not add weight to their cause with the argument of "go ahead an look, we have nothing to hide!"
People are funny creatures. Give a hint of a hidden agenda and the message is lost. However said argument does not work with Politicians. Does anybody really trust them? |
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CuriousGeorge Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 46
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Grampa wrote: | Yes you could collect a pay stub but it would show No Pay Due if the duty wasn't performed. But that still doesn't tell whther or not someone was AWOL.
*SNIP*
Even if he hadn't performed the duty, if his CO didn't charge him as AWOL, he wasn't AWOL. Period. That is the Commanders discretion, not the Democratic National Committees or Michael Moores.
What often happens is someone is authorized to perform the duty either at a different location or on a different date and the person, doesn't or cannot perform it, the CO can authorise the SM to be carried Absent: Leave and not get paid if the reason for not performing the duty is acceptable. a SM has to make up the missed duty within a certain time frame, usually 90 days, to get credit for retirement and get paid. If they don't, the pay code has to be changed to a non-contructive pay code; either Absent:Leave or AWOL.
He may not have a "good" year, but he certainly wasn't AWOL.
Example: I've had guys authorized a substitute training period due to being out of state on a job. When they couldn't make it due to the job or lack of a drilling unit near them, the CO often authorizes a duty code change to absent:leave so the guy is covered. This is of course dependent on past performance. If it happens to a good soldier the CO will cut them slack. Conversly, if it is a habitually poor soldier, the CO may choose to hammer him. Again, COs discretion.
I'll bet thats exactly what happened to GW in the ANG when he was working for a political campaign back in the 70's. One would be on the road alot and not available for the weekend duty.
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Ok thanks. That does make a little more sense. I guess that is a differnece between regular army and National Guard?
I raised an eyebrow on the AWOL question as one of my great-uncles went AWOL for a couple days to see his girl(my aunt), and he was punished for doing it.
Sometimes its not simple to label it black and white as there is much fodder for the consipiracy theroriests(ie wasn't George Sr the ambassador to the UN at the time). |
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Navy_Navy_Navy Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousGeorge wrote: | Ok thanks. That does make a little more sense. I guess that is a differnece between regular army and National Guard? |
Yes, some very big differences.
I missed some drills in my Reserve time and made them up too.
I don't know what the bookkeeping was like in the early 70's, but as lax as some units were about discipline, maintenance, drilling, etc., in the flagging days of the war, I'd be surprised if all of GWB's records are available at the official records center.
I just requested my records from the NPRC in Saint Louis this year and it took months to get them - but there's really nothing in there!
The only medical records are from my induction physical and one of my flight physicals.
I had multiple other things that should have been in there - promotion exam results, my final promotion, drill attendance records, marriage certificate, results of clearance investigations, clearance record, further NOK notification requests, performance evaluations - it was almost as if I didn't exist, except that I did get two copies of my DD214 in there.
Today's military preaches hard that a departing member MUST make copies of everything in their service record and medical record. They weren't doing that in the 70's or even the early 80's. _________________ ~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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