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Why is Kerry's service 30 yrs ago an issue NOW?
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4moreyears
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Let me try again Reply with quote

GulfWarVet wrote:

I am gravely concerned. I have read the material, I have seen the ad, and our arguments look less than compelling. We have strong ground to stand on when we point out Kerry's post war protests and defamation, which are slimy and repulsive. But when we fixate on his combat record and impune his service on specious evidence we risk destroying our credibility...


I think the argument is compelling. I'm sure the spinmeisters will try to do their thing. That's why the line drawn in the sand needs to be pointed to...as often as neccessary. Kerry's combat record???? Still waiting for his records to be released.

I for one am interested in knowing the facts:

4 months in country

1 of the 4 spent in training...that leaves 3 in actual combat deployment

3 PHs...1 for a scratch...What was the extent of injury for the other 2?

My gut tells me he's not authentic, I want it proved one way or the other.


Bottom line for me is that Kerry aided and abetted the enemy while his extended band of brothers were still in country dying. If he was so concerned for their health...then he should have stayed on the swift boat and made a difference.
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kerry returned to the United States on July 22, 1971, held a press conference publicly calling on President Nixon... for the surrender of the United States to North Vietnam.
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GulfWarVet
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="carpro"]I disagree GulfWarVet.[/quote]

??? Chofrock
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Chofrock
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think my question really belongs in this thread....


But I want to know why was Kerry allowed to get away with his crimes for 30 years and no one stood up aginst him until now?
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chofrock wrote:
But I want to know why was Kerry allowed to get away with his crimes for 30 years and no one stood up aginst him until now?



I think was mostly due to the atmosphere of the times.

Jimmy Carter pardoned all the people who ran away to Canada rather than answer the draft.

The public was beaten down by what they were seeing on their television screens every night, the riots in the streets, the country torn apart.

The reaction was to sweep it all under the rug, try to let bygones be bygones.

They say about the stages of grief that you have to go through them eventually, even if it's sixty years after a loss. So, I think it is with the Vietnam situation. There are many wounds that haven't healed - and won't heal - they need to be examined and cleaned first.

It may be that we are in a delayed grief and resolution phase - the final battles of the Vietnam war.
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carpro
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chofrock wrote:
I don't think my question really belongs in this thread....


But I want to know why was Kerry allowed to get away with his crimes for 30 years and no one stood up aginst him until now?


Chofrock, I really can't believe you have read this entire thread. There is lots of info on your subject. Slow typists like me don't enjoy repeating themselves.

If I'm wrong and you have read it all, I apologize. Very Happy
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Chofrock
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, I did not read all of it.

Slow readers like me don't like to read the same arguements over and over.
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carpro
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpro wrote:
I disagree GulfWarVet. His post war history was out there and absolutely no one,especially the media, would give it the time of day.

Now we have their attention and people are asking questions both about his war record and his post war record.

If you think no minds have been changed, then you haven't been reading this forum very carefully.

I respect your point of view but believe you are just flat wrong. Kerry's camp would just love to go back to ignoring his post war history like you want them to.

THEY CAN'T IGNORE THIS and are scared s*&^less and it shows.


Where'd you go GulfWarVet?

I was looking forward to some kind of comment. Very Happy
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wvobiwan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Navy's Right, The Press Only Wanted Blood Reply with quote

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:
Chofrock wrote:
But I want to know why was Kerry allowed to get away with his crimes for 30 years and no one stood up aginst him until now?



I think was mostly due to the atmosphere of the times.

Jimmy Carter pardoned all the people who ran away to Canada rather than answer the draft.

The public was beaten down by what they were seeing on their television screens every night, the riots in the streets, the country torn apart.

The reaction was to sweep it all under the rug, try to let bygones be bygones.

They say about the stages of grief that you have to go through them eventually, even if it's sixty years after a loss. So, I think it is with the Vietnam situation. There are many wounds that haven't healed - and won't heal - they need to be examined and cleaned first.

It may be that we are in a delayed grief and resolution phase - the final battles of the Vietnam war.


Once the blood was over, the media reveled in the idea that 'they' influenced a generation and 'stopped the war'. When the NVA came south and killed everyone in their way, the media was no where to be found.

The media's liberal makeover was born in the Vietnam era, it sells newspapers to be anti-American and anti-military, and the lack of personal responsibility inherent in liberal philosophy works well for them.

Who's going to listen to negative things about the media's new JFK, their new liberal hero? Especially from grunts who obviously couldn't understand someone as complex and lofty as Kerry? Now that Kerry is idiotically running on his Vietnam record, the media is being hoist on their own petard - kinda hard for them to ignore it now. But they're trying.

When Unfit for Command comes out it ought to generate enough buzz to get at least Fox news to pay attention. It was smart of Kerry to agree to go on Bill O'Rielly so that Bill would be muzzled on this issue 'til then. But if Bill doesn't crack Kerry open, I will have to stop watching him.

"Don't let the ratings go to your head Bill, people will stop watching when you pander to the ratings."
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Once the blood was over, the media reveled in the idea that 'they' influenced a generation and 'stopped the war'. When the NVA came south and killed everyone in their way, the media was no where to be found.


Right on, Doug - GREAT insight.

The media has been up there on an ever-growing pedestal ever since - Woodward and Bernstein sent them flying up like Jack's beanstalk.

But they are NOT infallible and they are NOT unassailable.

Ratings are WAY down on the alphabet networks and CNN and MSNBC compared to FOX - because people are voting with their remote controls. Wink

They have hemorrhaged viewers for the last two years because of their hand-wringing, one-sided reporting. And they're not even trying to do any damage control. Instead, they launch harrassment lawsuits against Fox.

Something tells me that if they could sue every viewer who no longer tunes in to their pro-leftist newscasts, they would. A virtual temper fit.

Ain't the free market great? Wink
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wvobiwan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:23 am    Post subject: Sean Gets Kerry, Not Bill Reply with quote

I just found out that it's actually Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes who get to interview Kerry, not Bill O'Reilly. Probably a good thing considering Bill's performance with Kerry's gunner and Michael Moore. I think Bill's getting soft...I hope Sean isn't. I wrote Fox and Bill a letter registering my complaint a threat to go elsewhere if they don't give this story the attention it deserves.

Fox might be concerned that Bush could get some backlash since he didn't serve in Vietnam at all. But I don't think so, at least Bush hasn't lied about his service, repudiated it, or called his fellow soldiers butchers. There's no question of his concern for and devotion to our soldiers, George should go after Kerry on this and let the truth out, good or bad.

Interesting that Kerry wouldn't appear with Bill, guess he hopes that Colmes will throw him some softballs to counter whatever Sean nails him with. I wonder if Bill downplayed the gunner hoping to get Kerry? If so, bad move Bill.
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Chofrock
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Navy's Right, The Press Only Wanted Blood Reply with quote

wvobiwan wrote:


Once the blood was over, the media reveled in the idea that 'they' influenced a generation and 'stopped the war'. When the NVA came south and killed everyone in their way, the media was no where to be found.

The media's liberal makeover was born in the Vietnam era, it sells newspapers to be anti-American and anti-military, and the lack of personal responsibility inherent in liberal philosophy works well for them.

Who's going to listen to negative things about the media's new JFK, their new liberal hero? Especially from grunts who obviously couldn't understand someone as complex and lofty as Kerry? Now that Kerry is idiotically running on his Vietnam record, the media is being hoist on their own petard - kinda hard for them to ignore it now. But they're trying.



So, you are saying this crimal got away with it because it was "too hard" to stand up against the media?

But, Really what does the media have to do with it?

I mean criminals are tried in the courts, not in the media.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: Navy's Right, The Press Only Wanted Blood Reply with quote

Chofrock wrote:

So, you are saying this crimal got away with it because it was "too hard" to stand up against the media?

But, Really what does the media have to do with it?

I mean criminals are tried in the courts, not in the media.




What you're missing is what I was talking about earlier - the context of the political atmosphere of the times.

This is where we have one of our toughest tasks - teaching the younger generations how much pain, how much anger, how much viciousness was part of our culture back then.

Our society just wanted to sweep it all under the rug and make it go away. As I said, even the deserters were given a Presidential pardon in an effort to smooth it all over.

This appearance of healing even held for a while, especially when the Vietnam war memorial was dedicated.

It continued with the return of Gulf War I vets, who got parades and hearty "welcome home!"s to greet their return.

That's when we realized... "uh oh... there's another generation that never got our appreciation."

There are probably many other reasons that he was not prosecuted - not the least of which he was a well-connected brahmin who married into even better connections.

There are no easy answers.
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rlmorel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason it is an issue now, and not for the last 30 years, is that nobody thought Kerry could do much more than harm Massachusetts. As a 30 year resident of Massachusetts, I can understand that mentality.

I read all of these posts here, particularly those of JohnA.

The likes of John Kerry made me a conservative. When I was ten years old, I delivered the Stars and Stripes in Yokosuka and Subic Bay. I remember reading the articles in the paper as I assembled and delivered them, and being one angry ten year old.

How could those people, who knew NOTHING about the military, make those statements about my dad and my friends dads? It may sound corny, but my friends and I knew the names of many of the POWs...we wore the bracelets and listened to our parents talk about those men.

In Japan, we had a heliport right near the yacht club, right across the street from my school. I used to watch those helicopters come in, 15 minutes apart, with the red cross in the white square on the sides and the nose. While the copters turned, people would go out and unload those fellows, put them on ambulances, and take them to the base hospital. I would just sit there and watch them. All those men on stretchers, covered with blankets and bandages, IV poles in the air. I had no clue, yet just what that meant.

But I knew that the things that were being said by Kerry and his types were not meant to be complimentary to those men or that system. As far as I was concerned, those men were all being spat upon by the people being reported on in the Stars and Stripes.

So, like the SwiftVets, I just tried to let it go. What were all those protesters going to do now that the war was over? What could they harm?

Then Bill Clinton became President. And now, John Kerry. But the thing that makes me just as angry as can be, is that he is using his Naval service as a primary springboard to his candidacy! The utter, unmitigated GALL! The very thing he SPAT upon!

His book, with the MOCKERY of the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima! All those men, most young, who new NOTHING of life, gave theirs on that island. And HE MOCKED THEM!

My father, a 30 year Navy vet, buried under that flag he LOVED. God, Family and Country is what he said to us. (though not always in that order!) He lay under that flag, that Kerry mocked in his book. And now, with his silver hair, says "We call her Old Glory"!?????!!!!!

Am I angry? Yes. I have tears in my eyes right now, this makes me so angry I could SPIT. So, I can only imagine how the SwiftVets feel. So, do the SwiftVets have a grudge? They darn well should, if they don't. Because they DO have a grudge, that does NOT make their cause unjust.

Thanks for listening. I apologize for the length.
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ASPB
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've already typed it. Send it to every media out in the Northeast!

BZ

Come on people. I've seen some really great posts here. Send them to the moonbats. It only costs a little time. 500 letters might convince some Pulitzer hungry media hack to get off his or her ass.
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4moreyears
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1: If the world wide web had existed 30 years ago...history might have been different.

2: Better late than never

3: Fatigue...America had enough of Nam 30 years ago. Now those Vets who were maligned have rested up and are ready to do what needs to be done.
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