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hanna
Rear Admiral
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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The Gridley Westpac Cruise was for 4.5 months with 1 day in Danang. It wasn't even a standard six month Westpac.
Coastal Squadron 10 for for 4 month's and 13 days.
NOT two "tours". A Navy "in-country" tour was 12 months (13 months for Marines). For a Line Ship we said "How many Westpac's do you have. In a 3 year assignment many did 3 6-month Westpacs.
In country, 12 month equals a "Tour of Duty".
Do we all know what embellishment means?
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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stylin19
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:11 am Post subject: |
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tread carefully about the Gridley. Navy at sea had different criterea for being "in-country".
Near as i can figure, Kerry's Fitness reports from the Gridley show:
Kerry was assigned to the Gridley from 6/67-7/68.
Only the following periods noted in the fitness reports could probably be considered "in-country"
WestPac Combat OPS - Feb 19-Mar 22 1968
Gulf of Tonkin - March 23-27 1968
Gulf of Tonkin - April 1-May 5 1968
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| stylin19 wrote: | tread carefully about the Gridley. Navy at sea had different criterea for being "in-country".
Near as i can figure, Kerry's Fitness reports from the Gridley show:
Kerry was assigned to the Gridley from 6/67-7/68.
Only the following periods noted in the fitness reports could probably be considered "in-country"
WestPac Combat OPS - Feb 19-Mar 22 1968
Gulf of Tonkin - March 23-27 1968
Gulf of Tonkin - April 1-May 5 1968 |
Listen please!
Line ship duty was not "in-country". In-country means boots on the ground and inshore and coastal small boats where the crews lived ashore . Don't be fooled into changing the terminology. If you're on our side of the debate you'll be laughed at for your ignorance. If you're a liar's believer you're just making our effort more difficult. Your choice.
The Gridley left Long Beach in early Feb of 68 and returned in May of '68. Kerry was already in Swift School at Coronado in July. I believe he was released from the Gridley in June of '68. Do a search. I posted, as did others, this data weeks ago.
Your OPS data for the Gridley appears correct based upon my research. Regardless, the Gridley cruise was not a "tour of duty" as the term was then understood..or even now for that matter.
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stylin19
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:01 am Post subject: |
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um....fitness report I have of 9/3/1968, shows the Kerry on Gridley CONUS 5/27-6/7 and Long Beach 6/7-7/20/68. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.
again, tread lightly on his Gridley tour. It's not the issue.
His tour on the Gridley would haved earned him the Vietnam Service Medal (1 day) but not the Vietnam Campaign Medal.
( 6 months )
One requirement to earn the Vietnam Service Medal is:
(2) Be attached to or regularly serve for 1 or more days aboard a Naval vessel directly supporting military operations.
The Vietnam AO was as such:
"Vietnam and contiguous waters, as used herein, is defined as an area which includes Vietnam and the water adjacent thereto within the following specified limits: From a point on the East Coast of Vietnam at the juncture of Vietnam with China southeastward to 21 N. Latitude, 108° 15'E. Longitude; thence, southward to 18° N. Latitude, 108° 15'E. Longitude; thence southeastward to 17° 30'N. Latitude, 111° E. Longitude; thence southward to 11° N. Latitude; 111° E. Longitude, thence southwestward to 7° N. Latitude, 105° E. Longitude; thence westward to 7° N. Latitude, 103° E. longitude, thence northward to 9° 30'N. Latitude, 103° E. Longitude, thence northeastward to 10° 15'N. Latitude, 104° 27'E. Longitude, thence northward to a point on the West Coast of Vietnam at the juncture of Vietnam with Cambodia.",
This, of course includes the Gulf OF Tonkin.
Now, was the Gridley there directly supporting military operations ?
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:20 am Post subject: |
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The Gridley tour is not the issue except that the Kerry campaign keeps referring to his "two tours in Vietnam."
To anyone who doesn't know that one of the "tours" they're counting was part of a Westpac, it sounds like Kerry spent two years, boots on the ground.
They have no clue that it was a grand total of 4 months and twelve days in the country. "A tour in Vietnam" conjures up images of slogging through the mud, digging foxholes, eating c-rats and being showered with incoming grenades.
What counted for ribbons in the Navy is not the same thing as what counted for "a tour in Vietnam."
Most people don't know that, so while it's a tiny detail, it's an important part of this puzzle that the Kerry Kampf has constructed.
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
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Grampa
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Eureka, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Actually, its not a tiny detail. It is crucial to understanding the mendacity of Kerry in his campaigns effort to fool voters into thinking he is something he is not.
Two tours says 24 four months of in country service as opposed to the reality of 4 months in country with a couple of port calls on a WestPac. its fraudulent and Kerry relies on ignorance of Military service to pull it off.
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stylin19
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:39 am Post subject: |
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thanx...I understand holding Sen. Kerry's feet to the fire. I'm not a Kerry apologist by a long shot.
I've had all of Kerry's available military records, for months
I'm still on the fence about picking all the nits off his military records.
I haven't yet disparaged Sen. Kerry's service, though more and more is coming to light that casts a huge shadow of doubt on his "hero" status.
I wish he'd just sign the 180 authorization to release everything there is on him, to put this to rest...one way or the other.
I had 11 months of active duty left when when the USMC sent me to Vietnam. I served 10 months in-country. I didn't serve a "tour". I couldn't serve a full tour. Yet I refer to it as a tour. Guess i'll stop.
I don't have the balls to tell those who served off-shore that they weren't considered "in-country".
Based on some of the rationale here, If John Mccain hadn't got shot down, he wouldn't have been considered in-country.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| stylin19 wrote: | | I don't have the balls to tell those who served off-shore that they weren't considered "in-country". |
Okay, I'm not pingin' on YOU at all, here, okay? You're cool - I'm just thoroughly ticked off that Kerry's campaign has chosen to misrepresent what Kerry really did.
In that manner, Kerry denigrates the service of the people who worked their butts off on those cruises off the coast in support of the ground operations. He's making himself look like more than he was, which says that he thinks that what he did on the Gridley wasn't good enough.
It's one thing for someone who pulled a full 3 years of WESTPAC's that they did a tour in support of Vietnam.
It's quite another to say that they served "a tour in Vietnam," because "a tour in Vietnam" means to most people that they were on the ground, as I described before.
Now this sounds like I'm splitting hairs because you know the difference between these phrases.
The work on the ships was sometimes grueling. No one takes away anything from what some of those guys did. (Least of all me, a former WAVE!) But, I've never heard a sailor say they "did a tour in Vietnam" when they speak of their activities in support of the war.
| Quote: | | Based on some of the rationale here, If John Mccain hadn't got shot down, he wouldn't have been considered in-country. |
That's really not being fair. I'm trying to explain to you how the Kerry campaign is trying to manipulate the perceptions of the public, not denigrate anyone's service. ALL were needed. ALL were valuable to the effort, from the rearest REMF to the boots on the ground who were in the ____.
Having earned Vietnam Service or campaign ribbons and being considered as having done a tour in Vietnam mean different things to military people - but they mean the same thing to civilians.
That's all I'm trying to say. You can have rightfully and laboriously earned your Vietnam service ribbon by slaving away on a flight deck, but you wouldn't try to trick people into thinking that you spent a WESTPAC mucking through jungle.
If John McCain hadn't been shot down, he wouldn't have done "a tour in Vietnam," either. He was flying support missions off of the Forrestal and then the Oriskany, if I'm not mistaken. Never heard a pilot or aircrewman refer to an airwing's deployment as "a tour in Vietnam."
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
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