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Our current Cultural Civil War

 
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 4:39 am    Post subject: Our current Cultural Civil War Reply with quote

Dear Soldiers,

This country is in the midst of two wars.

First, a war initiated by fascist terrorists, ideologically the heirs of Nazism and Communism, who call themselves Islamic fundamentalists.

This country is also at war with an internal faction. Indeed, we are in a cultural civil war with those who would overthrow the American Revolution. Namely, the Left. This is not an overstatement. The war is real.

The American Revolution was built on the ideals of government by the people, not by the elite few; on the belief of an absolute morality, not on moral relativism; on individual rather than group rights; on personal responsibility as opposed to unfettered "rights"; on economic liberty, rather than state control; and on rule of law, rather than "social justice" (i.e., as determined by the self-appointed leftist 'elite').

People on the Left oppose these traditional American values, values developed by the Founding Fathers, themselves learned men with a great knowledge of the world's history and culture.

The Left is trying to usurp America's values with their own.

We must win both wars. Opposition to leftists is indeed defense of American tradition.

Do not forget this.

I highly recommend websites such as National Review Online ( http://www.nationalreview.com/ ), FrontPageMagazine (by former leftist David Horowitz at http://www.frontpagemag.com/ ), and The Wall Street Journal's "Best of the Web Today" ( http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/ ) for more on these issues.

The collection of articles by historian Victor Davis Hanson ( http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp ) are particularly excellent.


Last edited by fortdixlover on Mon May 17, 2004 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin


Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What culture war?

Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Mon May 17, 2004 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, fortdix!

This week's NRO has an especially attractive cover and a very interesting cover story: http://www.nationalreview.com/issue/toc200405141448.asp

Me#1You#10, that's BAD! Very Happy
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:
Thanks, fortdix!

This week's NRO has an especially attractive cover and a very interesting cover story: http://www.nationalreview.com/issue/toc200405141448.asp

Me#1You#10, that's BAD! Very Happy


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js
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Our current Cultural Civil War Reply with quote

fortdixlover wrote:
(snip)The American Revolution was built on the ideals of government by the people, not by the elite few; on the belief of an absolute morality, not on moral relativism; on individual rather than group rights; on personal responsibility as opposed to unfettered "rights"; on economic liberty, rather than state control; and on rule of law, rather than "social justice" (i.e., as determined by the self-appointed leftist 'elite').
(snip)


Let's see...

Government by the people, not the elite few: The Bush II administration is notoriously secretive. (For example, the number of documents classified goes up every year including re-classification of formerly declassified documents. I won't bother going into Cheney's Energy Commission. The list of "secrets" is potentially somewhat too long for a forum such as this.) So much for participation by those who are not the "elite few".

Absolute Morality vs. moral relativism: It seems Rummy signed off on the use of torture. So much for morality.

Personal responsibility vs. unfettered "rights": Rummy took responsibility for the abuses in Abu Ghraib. Unfortunately, his responsibility does not seem to have included any consequences. Is this what the Founding Fathers meant? I have my doubts...

Rule of law vs. "social justice": The Bush II administration has established a series of prisons abroad and a court system that is free of any legislative or judicial oversight. The executive branch rules supreme there. You refer to this as the "rule of law"? My definition is a bit different...

I see you're going to be voting for Kerry... Wink
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Our current Cultural Civil War Reply with quote

Dear Military Friends,

Attached below is an example of the kind of Leftist b.s. you are fighting, and were fighting in Vietnam (although you didn't know it at the time):

js wrote:
Let's see... Government by the people, not the elite few: The Bush II administration is notoriously secretive. (For example, the number of documents classified goes up every year including re-classification of formerly declassified documents. I won't bother going into Cheney's Energy Commission. The list of "secrets" is potentially somewhat too long for a forum such as this.) So much for participation by those who are not the "elite few".


Exhibit 1: Sir, your puerile comments are an embarrassment. An elected President being hounded by a free press, by the Congress, by the public, without those people needing to worry about a bullet in the head from the 'hit squad' just ain't the "government by the elite few" your authoritarian leftist friends envision.

Quote:
Absolute Morality vs. moral relativism: It seems Rummy signed off on the use of torture. So much for morality.


Exhibit 2: People of the left claim "nuance", but when it comes to iintellectual debate on societal issues, they simply resort to single issues as proof of their global views. Morality is out the window, Mr. Rumsfeld "authorized torture" (according to the leftist press, of course), therefore the butchery of 3,000+ at the WTC was OK, Arab terrorist bombing against Israel is OK, and apartheid of women is just their "cultural choice."

Quote:
Personal responsibility vs. unfettered "rights": Rummy took responsibility for the abuses in Abu Ghraib. Unfortunately, his responsibility does not seem to have included any consequences. Is this what the Founding Fathers meant? I have my doubts...


Exhibit 3: This person clearly does not understand the issue of rights vs. responsibilities regarding citizens in a society, so I will not endeavor to explain such a concept here.

Quote:
Rule of law vs. "social justice": My definition is a bit different...


Exhibit 4: I'm sure your defintion is a bit different. Leftists have no problems with a few unelected 'activist' (leftist) judges of the Supreme Court of Massachusetts forcing a change in the definition of marriage on a population where the majority in the U.S. clearly oppose same. Examples of such leftist fiat abound.

Quote:
I see you're going to be voting for Kerry


Exhibit 5: How childish a comment.

Soldiers, do posters like this represent your culture, or Western culture? Or do they represent something else entirely?
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ROTC DAD
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fortdixlover,

Actually, our government is based on the principle of opposing opinion; something you seem to believe is antithetical. You make an interesting arguement; too bad, it doesn't hold up because it contains its own flawed contradiction. You make the arguement that the only way we can have a democratic society is by getting rid of the opposition. The inherent contradiction here, of course, is Democracy, by its very nature, not only allows contradiction, but requires it. To do away with opposition by definition means to do away with Democracy.

You may want to read The Federalist Papers, as it appears your concept of what our country is is based on a simplistic and wrong view.
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js
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is customary practice on forums to indicate when a quote is snipped. Could I ask you to comply?
(I must confess to being especially annoyed that you cut the emoticon off "Exhibit 5". Just in case anyone is unfamiliar with " Wink ", it means that the statement was not meant to be taken seriously.)

I see you have taken great pains to flame me in every one of your statements. Unfortunately, you did not actually counter any of my arguments. Pity. This could have been interesting.
You might also note that nowhere did I make any generalizing claims. I merely provided a few examples of demonstrating that the goals you claim to seek may not necessarily be where you are looking for them. (Or, then again, they might be. I made no claims about that either Laughing )

I'm sorry to see that you seem to believe that anyone whose opinion differs from yours must be a "leftist". Unfortunately, my political views aren't very "left". Actually, according to the "Political Compass" ( http://www.politicalcompass.org/ ), my views are quite centrist and far more libertarian than either President Bush's or Senator Kerry's. (Note: I'm not entirely sure how reliable the assessments of the various presidential candidtates are. I do, however, assume they reflect the general tendencies reasonably accurately.)
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

js wrote:
Unfortunately, you did not actually counter any of my arguments.


This poster means:

"I'm sorry...I'm right, and in my mind, you did not actually counter any of my arguments, and I don't need to give you any rebuttal of substance to the points you raised other than saying they don't counter my arguments, because I'm right."

Sir, you say you're not a leftist, but you seem to employ their methods.

Circular Reasoning
Example: I'm correct because I'm smarter than you. And I must be smarter than you because I'm correct.

What a way to respond in a debate.
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js
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Our current Cultural Civil War Reply with quote

You know, I've allowed myself to get so annoyed, that I've decided to dissect fortdixlover's arguments in detail.

fortdixlover wrote:
Dear Military Friends,

Attached below is an example of the kind of Leftist b.s. you are fighting, and were fighting in Vietnam (although you didn't know it at the time):

Exhibit 1: Sir, your puerile comments are an embarrassment. An elected President being hounded by a free press, by the Congress, by the public, without those people needing to worry about a bullet in the head from the 'hit squad' just ain't the "government by the elite few" your authoritarian leftist friends envision.


We did in fact, have a president who was hounded by a free press. His name was Clinton. Bush has yet to be hounded (although we may see that soon).
Sorry, but I don't have any "authoritarian leftist" friends. What makes you assume I do? Certainly nothing I said.

fortdixlover wrote:

Exhibit 2: People of the left claim "nuance", but when it comes to iintellectual debate on societal issues, they simply resort to single issues as proof of their global views. Morality is out the window, Mr. Rumsfeld "authorized torture" (according to the leftist press, of course), therefore the butchery of 3,000+ at the WTC was OK, Arab terrorist bombing against Israel is OK, and apartheid of women is just their "cultural choice."


Actually, my source for "authorized torture" was the BBC. Why you make the logical leap from there to the WTC is beyond my comprehension. Care to explain?

fortdixlover wrote:

Exhibit 3: This person clearly does not understand the issue of rights vs. responsibilities regarding citizens in a society, so I will not endeavor to explain such a concept here.


An interesting argument. Wink Unfortunately, it says nothing about me and lots about you. (Furthermore, I'd wager I understand a bit more about it than you judging from if what you've written on this forum is anything to go by.)

fortdixlover wrote:
Exhibit 4: I'm sure your defintion is a bit different. Leftists have no problems with a few unelected 'activist' (leftist) judges of the Supreme Court of Massachusetts forcing a change in the definition of marriage on a population where the majority in the U.S. clearly oppose same. Examples of such leftist fiat abound.


What do unelected judges on the Massachussetts Supreme Court have to do with the majority of the population of the US? They deal only in legislation enacted in Massachussetts. The Supreme Court can strike any legislation and/or rulings from Massachussetts down should it conflict with the Constitution. Of course, the Supreme Court is also unelected and (at the moment at least) activist.
BTW, am I to understand from this that you favor a constitutional amendment in favor of elected judges at all levels of the judiciary?

fortdixlover wrote:

Exhibit 5: How childish a comment.

Soldiers, do posters like this represent your culture, or Western culture? Or do they represent something else entirely?


I think I'll skip comments on this one. (But his cutting off my emoticon on his quote of me still annoys me. Maybe I am as childish as he says. Laughing )
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js
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fortdixlover wrote:
js wrote:
Unfortunately, you did not actually counter any of my arguments.


This poster means:

"I'm sorry...I'm right, and in my mind, you did not actually counter any of my arguments, and I don't need to give you any rebuttal of substance to the points you raised other than saying they don't counter my arguments, because I'm right."

Sir, you say you're not a leftist, but you seem to employ their methods.

Circular Reasoning
Example: I'm correct because I'm smarter than you. And I must be smarter than you because I'm correct.

What a way to respond in a debate.


*sigh*
More flames. Have you got anything else to say?

BTW, you're employing the methods you say I'm employing. Should I be confused? Rolling Eyes
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

js wrote:
fortdixlover wrote:
js wrote:
Unfortunately, you did not actually counter any of my arguments.


This poster means:

"I'm sorry...I'm right, and in my mind, you did not actually counter any of my arguments, and I don't need to give you any rebuttal of substance to the points you raised other than saying they don't counter my arguments, because I'm right."

Sir, you say you're not a leftist, but you seem to employ their methods.

Circular Reasoning
Example: I'm correct because I'm smarter than you. And I must be smarter than you because I'm correct.

What a way to respond in a debate.


*sigh*
More flames. Have you got anything else to say?


No. When I win a battle, I then turn my attention to other battles.

Thank you for your attention.
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