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More sensitive war? Here's how!
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:41 pm    Post subject: More sensitive war? Here's how! Reply with quote

In the wake of Sen. Kerry's "more sensitive war on terror" remark, Frank J. at IMAO has come up with a list of ways to do that. I think he's got a mole in Kerry's campaign! Laughing

Quote:
Anyway, I was thinking, if Kerry is elected president, how could we conduct a more sensitive war on terror? Here's what I came up with:

* Instead of writing things on missiles such as "Suck on this!" and "Payback time!", write "We're really, really sorry about this."

* Bombers will have a bumper sticker on them saying, "How's my bombing? Call 1-800-COLLATERAL"

* Replace Marine triumphant yell of "Ooh-rah!" with "Kumbyah!"

* Everyone in the Navy must memorize and be able to sing the lyrics to the Village People song "In the Navy" (or is that already mandated?).

* Instead of training with use of bayonets for close quarters combat, they'll train to use hugs.

* With each division, embed a reporter and a clown who can make balloon animals.

* Near each base, have anonymous complaint forms for terrorists to fill out (no bombs in the suggestion box, please).

* Instead of rifles firing NATO rounds, they fire bubbles. Yay bubbles!

* Give terrorists who bomb civilians a “time out.”

* Before beginning a strike, drop leaflets over the targeted area entitled "So you've been attacked by America."

* Train Special Forces to sneak into a terrorist headquarters while the terrorist are away so they can set up an intervention.

* Just because it's a war zone doesn't mean there has to be so much yelling.

* Each soldier gets assigned a terrorist to be the secret Santa of.

* Enemy fire is immediately responded to with the statement, "We know this is just misdirected anger at your father."

* Less naked prisoner pyramids.

* Try to get terrorists to surrender by reminding them over and over that our commander in chief "served in Vietnam."

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JN173
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: More sensitive war? Here's how! Reply with quote

Scott wrote:


Quote:
Anyway, I was thinking, if Kerry is elected president, how could we conduct a more sensitive war on terror? Here's what I came up with:

* With each division, embed a reporter and a clown who can make balloon animals.



A reporter and a clown! Wouldn't that be redundant? Laughing
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Bill Levinson
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:02 pm    Post subject: You forgot one Reply with quote

Every American over there should draw a dotted line around his/her neck to assist the insurgent who beheads them.

French terror alert levels, lowest to highest
(1) Hide
(2) Run
(3) Surrender
(4) Collaborate
(5) "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His Prophet."
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: More sensitive war? Here's how! Reply with quote

JN173 wrote:
Scott wrote:


Quote:
Anyway, I was thinking, if Kerry is elected president, how could we conduct a more sensitive war on terror? Here's what I came up with:

* With each division, embed a reporter and a clown who can make balloon animals.



A reporter and a clown! Wouldn't that be redundant? Laughing


Only if the reporter can make balloon animals, too!

Wink
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Fabius Cunctator
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About a month ago I had an interesting conversation with a brigadier general about the problem of the insurgency in Fallujah (and what we should have done back in the spring when Sadr and his Mahdi army started acting up). I reminded him of how our government screwed up the conduct of the Vietnam War so damned much for "political" reasons. I flat out said that the way to break the back of this insurgency and punish those guilty for the beheadings of US and allied personnel would be to do either one of two things: either take a page from the book of Marcus Licinius Crassus who suppressed the slave revolt of Spartacus in the year 79 BC, or take a page from the KGB in Lebanon in the early 1980's. In the former case, Crassus crucified (nailed to crosses) every rebel captured alive on the road from Capua to Rome. After that, Rome never had a slave revolt for the rest of its history. I told him that if I were the theater commander, I would crucify 10 insurgents for every beheading (those who no longer had any intelligence value). In the latter case, I believe some Soviet nationals had been kidnapped in Lebanon around the time we were sent packing in 1983. Apparently the KGB got to work, found out who the guilty culprits were, got them, hacked them to pieces and sent the body parts with a warning to their families. Seems that after that, no more Soviets were kidnapped in that part of the world.

The reaction I got from this general was extremely instructive. We're not serious about winning this war. If this is what our senior military leadership thinks, then imagine what the civilian leadership must think.

Oh, I have heard the typical reactions about American soldiers not doing this that and the other thing. Folks, we are not at war with the German Wehrmacht, which more or less adhered to the Geneva convention and the equivalent of Marquis of Queensbury rules for war. [Contrast the difference in the conduct of the Pacific War with that in the European theater.] We are at war with barbaric savages, who do not understand "sensitivity" and other such crap. Their response to that PC junk is that we are weak and ripe for the picking. WE HAVE TO BREAK THEIR BACK and keep up the pressure on them. This letting up again today in Najaf is bullsh^t, and THIS IS UNDER PRESIDENT BUSH. What the hell do you think it would be like under a President Kerry (God forbid!)?????

Sir John Fisher had it right - "The essence of war is violence; moderation in war is imbecility." - John A. Fisher, Lord of Kilverstone, First Sea Lord of the Admiralty (1841-1920)


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Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator
USMCR – 1974 to the present.

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum; qui victoriam cupit, milites inbuat diligenter; qui secundos optat eventus, dimicet arte, non casu. Nemo provocare, nemo audet offendere quem intellegit superiorem esse, si pugnet." - F. Vegetii Renati Epitoma Rei Militaris, AD 390
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Beatrice1000
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fabius Cunctator wrote:
This letting up again today in Najaf is bullsh^t,


It's gut-wrenching, and I'm not even a soldier... You know, I only recently forced myself to look at a set of pictures of that incident in Fallujah where they burned, chopped & hung up our guys (which the media has forgotten..) -- I accidentally stumbled onto them on some site I don't recall on the net -- and there were hundreds of pictures from Iraq, all with our soldiers pointing guns at people & frisking people, and blada blada evil occupiers -- and then there were detailed pictures of the burnt guys (the photographer caught every angle) and the crowd cutting them up and then moving to the bridge and hanging them up -- and I looked at this crowd, and they were women, children and young men and they were estatic.

And I thought, god forbid, but I want that town razed and salted, and I don't even want to talk about it. And then we did move in. And many of us died. And then all cried out "oh, the Americans are murdering civilians! Stop the war!! " And then we were told to stop for talks.

And I think of the pictures I saw and what those people had done, and every one of those grinning people in the picture were "civilians." And I don't even want to think what I am thinking... I'm not advocating the MOAB and I have no understanding on how one deals with these complicated situations involving civilians -- but I do believe our soldiers can handle it and do what they need to do and I have absolute faith in their humanity and good sense!

And now Najaf, and I anguish at the political power of that term "civilian." And I think, goodness, wasn't that part of Kerry's battle cry such a long, long time ago? Didn't he use the "killing of civilians" to condemn our troops?

And yes, it is bad right now and there are some real political constraints, but in the dark and on a clear night, I can imagine Bush saying to his military "do what you have to do" -- and even "I'll look the other way." All I can see Kerry doing is making calls to France and asking them, "what would you like me to do?" That is a simplistic comparison, yes, but from what I remember of that man, he doesn't seem emotionally capable of handling the reality of war -- the idea that it sometimes exists -- he seems to want to make it go away. He cannot possibly handle the situation we are in.
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Fabius Cunctator
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beatrice1000,

Of course, my question on what Kerry would do was rhetorical; as you pointed out in your post, we all know how he would go about it.

As a senior military officer, I do not, of course, advocate across the board inhumane or barbarous behavior, only dealing ruthlessly against those bearing arms against us. I reaffirm the innate humanity of our troops, who build schools, feed the hungry and give drink to the thirsty innocent unfortunates caught in the middle. I seek nothing more than the way we conducted ourselves in past wars. The war in the Pacific from 1941 to 1945 should be our model. We were dealing with an inhumane enemy, fanatical and suicidal (sound familiar??), and wiped him out wherever we found him. Nonetheless, after our landing in Okinawa, after defeating the kamikazes, we fed innocent Japanese women and children wherever we found them. We did it before successfully; if we learn the right lessons from our own history, we can succeed here.

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Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator
USMCR – 1974 to the present.

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum; qui victoriam cupit, milites inbuat diligenter; qui secundos optat eventus, dimicet arte, non casu. Nemo provocare, nemo audet offendere quem intellegit superiorem esse, si pugnet." - F. Vegetii Renati Epitoma Rei Militaris, AD 390
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Beatrice1000
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fabius Cunctator wrote:
Beatrice1000,

I reaffirm the innate humanity of our troops, who build schools, feed the hungry and give drink to the thirsty innocent unfortunates caught in the middle.


Yes, and that is why as a civilian when I have dark emotional responses to events, I wait for our military to take appropriate action and don't second guess them. I feel empathy for the troops having to make decisions within that environment, within the political cry of "you are killing civilians" every time they are involved in a firefight -- and I can only imagine the complexity of determining friend/foe -- I trust our people implicitly to do the best they can. I know mistakes will be made. This is the face of war and I'm looking it in the eye.... and I think sometimes not blinking counts and I don't think Kerry has it in him.

And this is what bothers me so about Kerry's recent claim that he would "pull troops out in 6 mos" as a taste of his plan for "conflict resolution." A taste of a John Kerry as President perhaps, and his better more peaceful world with the US having only an "altruistic role": "We have to let them solve their problems while we solve ours and help other people in an altruistic fashion commensurate with our capacity." 1971 senate testimony -- which ideology I am thinking might be a CORE BELIEF --

[and yes, history -- the Pacific, WWII, after the bodyblow {my dad was in the Phillipines} --we suffered and scrambled frantically and we "were losing" for awhile -- it took us a LONG time - to recover and to learn -- but it was an exponential learning and overcoming and we are again on that track. And I hold on fast to this and I hunker down and I think -- just got to be patient here, time, energy, learning curve and all and we CAN do it.] I view articles/pics at US Central Command every day and I know what we are doing and am so proud and so hopeful.

I don't believe Kerry can take the pressure of this complex undertaking we are engaged in. I don't believe he respects or believes in the decision-making capacity and underlying humanity of commanders & troops on the ground. I think his lack of respect for the military (and perhaps for anyone who isn't him, who knows?) might be behind his "more sensitive" approach to war comments -- his OWN egocentric sensitivities and issues about conflict as a whole perhaps. Yeegads!! Rolling Eyes

It is our soldiers, past and present, who by coming forward and speaking out now can protect us from this unstable man. The importance of the SwiftVets' campaign to keep Kerry out of the Whitehouse -- their service to this country in this time of war -- cannot even be measured...
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nickb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“We help fulfill that promise not by lecturing the world, but by leading it. Precisely because America is powerful, we must be sensitive about expressing our power and influence. Our goal is to patiently build the momentum of freedom, not create resentment for America itself. We pursue our goals, we will listen to others. We want strong friends to join us, not weak neighbors to dominate. In all our dealings with other nations, we will display the modesty of true confidence and strength.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010305.html



“Now, in terms of the balance between running down intelligence and bringing people to justice obviously is—we need to be very sensitive on that.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040806-1.html
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Bill Levinson
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Dealing with the "insurgents" Reply with quote

Beatrice1000 wrote:
It's gut-wrenching, and I'm not even a soldier... You know, I only recently forced myself to look at a set of pictures of that incident in Fallujah where they burned, chopped & hung up our guys (which the media has forgotten..) -- I accidentally stumbled onto them on some site I don't recall on the net -- and there were hundreds of pictures from Iraq, all with our soldiers pointing guns at people & frisking people, and blada blada evil occupiers -- and then there were detailed pictures of the burnt guys (the photographer caught every angle) and the crowd cutting them up and then moving to the bridge and hanging them up -- and I looked at this crowd, and they were women, children and young men and they were estatic.


I have read that if you fire a machine gun (or rockets) into a mob like that, they stampede and trample each other (a lot like the aftermath of a British soccer game). That is something our guys should consider the next time it happens. Since the entire mob was participating in an act of violence, I would say that that makes them a legitimate military target.

Re: the handling of the Spartacus revolt, and how the KGB dealt with terrorists, see my page at http://www.omdurman.org/hudna.html#jarema_1

...[After consulting his officers, Wisniowiecki] ...then turned to the Colonel of the Tartar bodyguard. "Colonel Vyershul, order your Tartars to behead these Cossacks; but to cut a stake for their leader and impale him at once."
..."This must be done in return for the cruelty which they practiced on the other side of the Dnieper; and to maintain our dignity and for the welfare of the whole Commonwealth. It must be shown by such an example that there is someone who is not afraid of this bandit leader [Khmyelnitski], and who will treat him as a highwayman..."

In the movie version of With Fire and Sword he orders simply, "Kill them so that they know they are dying." Poland thought so highly of Jarema Wisniowiecki, incidentally, that it elected his son Michael Korybut King in the hope that the father (d. 1651) lived on in the son. Michael Korybut actually turned out to be very ineffective even though his parents were both strong-willed people.
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Bill Levinson
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fabius Cunctator wrote:
As a senior military officer, I do not, of course, advocate across the board inhumane or barbarous behavior, only dealing ruthlessly against those bearing arms against us. I reaffirm the innate humanity of our troops, who build schools, feed the hungry and give drink to the thirsty innocent unfortunates caught in the middle. I seek nothing more than the way we conducted ourselves in past wars. The war in the Pacific from 1941 to 1945 should be our model. We were dealing with an inhumane enemy, fanatical and suicidal (sound familiar??), and wiped him out wherever we found him. Nonetheless, after our landing in Okinawa, after defeating the kamikazes, we fed innocent Japanese women and children wherever we found them. We did it before successfully; if we learn the right lessons from our own history, we can succeed here.


I agree 100% (despite my statement above on how Prince Jarema Wisniowiecki handled Cossack "insurgents"-- the context of this story includes horrific atrocities by those Cossacks against Polish civilians, including women, children, and clergy.)

The British Empire was very successful because of its humane treatment of enemy and neutral civilians, as summarized by the end of Kipling's "The Widow's Party:"

We broke a King and we built a road --
A court-house stands where the reg'ment goed.
And the river's clean where the raw blood flowed
When the Widow give the party.
(Bugle: Ta--rara--ra-ra-rara!)

And another one by Kipling (seems we have gotten ourselves into this situation in Iraq). Lest this be thought racist, "White" really means Euro-American culture as opposed to Third World culture. At the time (~1898), Euro-American cultures were almost exclusively Caucasian, except for Japan which was rapidly Westernizing, and the U.S. itself with its ethnically-diverse population.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine,
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
(The end for others sought)
Watch sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hope to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden,
And reap his old reward--
The blame of those ye better
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"
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http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry Growing dossier on John Kerry's lack of character, ethics, and integrity. Free leaflets, Election 2004
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NavyChief
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott's got talent... I love it. I'll have to send that one around to my emailing list.

Way to go Scott
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Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, NavyChief, but the talent isn't mine.

Frank J. at IMAO www.imao.us/ wrote the list. It can be found at www.imao.us/archives/001775.html.

He also writes a regular feature on his blog titled "My World" that's absolutely hysterical.

When you pass the list around, please include a link to www.imao.us/.
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blu3_skyz
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great! What the hell was Kerry thinking, a sensitive war.
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Bill Levinson
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:08 pm    Post subject: Why George Soros and France support Kerry Reply with quote

International financier George Soros http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry/#soros has called the United States a "danger to the world." There is no doubt that Soros gets along quite well with France (despite being convicted of inside trading by that country) because France is not a danger to anything. France was certainly not a danger, for example, to the Nazis.

It is very easy to imagine the "more sensitive" warfare that Monsieur Jean Frenchpoodle Kerrie would wage on the perpetrators of 9/11. Some ideas:

(1) Sing Kumbaya and ask "why can't we all just get along."
(2) Negotiate and ask them what we have to do to stop them from hurting us.
(3) Force our women to wear burquas.
(4) Convert to militant "Islam."
(5) Roll over and die.

If we did these things, no one could possibly accuse us of being insensitive (unless victims of terrorism were given Christian or Jewish funerals; this would be very insensitive to the militant "Islamic" world.)
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