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ted
Former Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kmudd wrote: | | ted wrote: | | kmudd wrote: | | Ted, doesn't Kerry meeting with the enemy while the war is going on and Americans dying bother you at all ? |
Yes actually, that does bother me. I'm trying to learn more about it, however - it's not something I have read enough about to make a judgement on. |
Does it bother you that his current spokesman says Kerry had no intention of going to talk to communists and the peace talks? Did Kerry just happen to run into the communists in Paris ? |
That's what he said. I have no way of disputing that.
I am rather comforted by the strong comments that Kerry did make in the 70s about hating communism, however. I have no doubt that Kerry had only honorable intentions, perhaps naivee, perhaps misplaced, but honorable.
Now I'll wait for the flames on that last paragraph... |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ord33 wrote: | PENJ
Fine, change the scenario to a football coach, or official/referee describing events which took place on the field. It can be verified they are at the scene and it is inherently their job to be aware of events going on. Similarly, the swift vets would be very aware of their surroundings and knowledgeable of the other boats. |
Yes, I understand that the individual swiftboats often worked closely in unison. I do, however, think that many of the people here begin with a bias against Kerry as they remember events of 30+ years ago -- so I am not sure that the sheer number of sworn statements would have weight if this were a real trial to overturn Kerry's medals. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ted wrote: |
I am rather comforted by the strong comments that Kerry did make in the 70s about hating communism, however. |
LOLOLOL!!! Surely you jest!
Have you not read his 1971 testimony before Congress in its entirety????
Good Lord! He parroted KGB-generated propaganda in that testimony and in his speeches for VVAW.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think that Kerry should have talked to North Vietnamese representatives. That was wrong, in my view. |
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ord33
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ted wrote: | | kmudd wrote: | | Ted, doesn't Kerry meeting with the enemy while the war is going on and Americans dying bother you at all ? |
Yes actually, that does bother me. I'm trying to learn more about it, however - it's not something I have read enough about to make a judgement on. |
Ted, here is just a small example from O'Neill's book, found on pg. 126-7, I would quote both pages because they are very important, but they are so long. Therefore, I will just summarize.
In '71 there meetings in Paris that involved the North Vietnamese Communist Delegation & the Provisional Revolutionary Government (PRG) of South Vietnam, whose militart arm was the Viet Cong. Madame Binh was the delegate for the Viet Cong during the conference. On July 1, 1971 Madame Binh created a 7point proposal to end the war (which included among other things the return of US POW's "in exchage for the Americans' setting a date for complete, unilateral military withdrawal from Vietnam. In other words, America could have its POW's back only if we agreed that we lost, then surrendered, and then set a date to leave."
John Kerry, in his testimony before the Fulbright Committee said "I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government."
Kerry also admitted to traveling to France after his wedding in May 1970 and meeting with Madame Binh, and both the North Vietnamese & Viet Cong.
(From "Unfit For Command" pg. 127) "On July 22, 1971, Kerry called a press conference in Washington. Speaking on behalf of the VVAW, Kerry openly urged President Nixon to accept Madame Binh's seven point plan."
The book continues on about the implications involved with her plan and so on. Also, Kerry violated the legal provision against negotiating with foreign powers (18 U.S.C. section 953) not to mention the "constitutional prohibition against giving support to our nation's enemies during wartime (Article III, Section 3). There is much more, and Ted, respectfully, it really is interesting and I do suggest you do read the book! |
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kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| But Ted, the point is Kerry is having his spokesman lie about his meetings with the communists this very day. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| PENJ wrote: | | I don't think that Kerry should have talked to North Vietnamese representatives. That was wrong, in my view. |
That may be the understatement of the day. 
As a commissioned Naval Officer, it was an offense that carried the possibilty of capital punishment if it had ever been charged against him.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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arjr111
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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When Kerry was safely back home from Vietnam, he lied, formented and caused harm to Troops and POW's still in harms way.....UNFORGIVEABLE!!
http://www.tinyvital.com/BlogArchives/000401.html
| Quote: | Kerry Discussion: Thoughts of a Vietnam POW
by Joe Crecca
28 Jan 04
The rigors and hardships of being a POW aside, I remember the so-called, "Peace Movement," and "Peace Marches and Rallies" that were taking place back home in the USA Our captors were more than willing, within their means, to provide us with any and all anti-US and anti-Vietnam War propaganda. Without a choice in the matter, we listened to the "Voice of Vietnam" broadcasts by, "Hanoi Hannah" and were shown newspaper and magazine photos and articles about those opposing the war back in the States. One of the peace marchers’ standard slogans was to, "Bring our boys home now and, alive." The warped thinking of such people was that by demonstrating against US involvement in Vietnam, they'd be shortening the war and reducing the number of American casualties. These demonstrators would also try to make one believe that their efforts would bring POWs like me home sooner. They were utterly wrong on both counts not to mention the detrimental effect their actions had on the morale of our troops and our POWs.
John F. Kerry was not just one of these demonstrators. He was leading them.
Therefore, these so-called demonstrations for peace had the exact opposite effect of what they were purporting to accomplish. Instead of shortening the war the "So-called Peace Movement" served only to protract the conflict resulting in a vastly greater number of Americans killed and wounded, greater economic burdens and longer periods of incarceration for Americans held captive in Vietnam. The war would have been over much sooner and with a much more favorable result if those in the "So-called Peace Movement" would have instead rallied behind the Commander-in-Chief to accomplish our mission and then, withdraw.
It is inescapable to think of the so-called peace movement and the antiwar demonstrators without also thinking how many fewer names there would now be engraved into the black granite of the Vietnam Wall if these same people had supported our efforts instead of trying to derail them. After all, fighting against a political regime that up to that time had murdered over a hundred million people couldn't have been all bad. But, John F. Kerry thought and acted differently. How many more names on the wall can he take credit for?
After the war ended, some of the war protesters hung on to their antiwar postures for a while. Some of them realized the errors of their ways almost immediately while for others it took twenty to twenty-five years.
But some, like John F. Kerry have not realized there was anything wrong with what he did. Instead, he hopes we will see him as a courageous Vietnam veteran. I do not. He hopes we will admire his bravery. I do not. I remember him more for his misdeeds upon his return from Vietnam.
However, in the present political arena, he evidently has succeeded in gaining the support of some well-meaning but misled Americans. Given his past record, it is just astonishing that he has garnered any support from our nation's veterans.
I hope all will reconsider their support for Senator Kerry in light of his actions which were so detrimental to our Vietnam combat soldiers, sailors and airmen many of whom are not here today to tell you themselves.
Thank you for considering my views. Please share what I have written with your fellow vets....
Joe Crecca
Vietnam POW
22NOV66-18FEB73 |
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kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Kerry wanted the USA to just pull out and "Hope" the North Vietnamese would return the POWs . |
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dcrhere
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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"Joe Crecca
Vietnam POW
22NOV66-18FEB73"
Now put THAT guy in a commercial...[/quote] |
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ted
Former Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| kmudd wrote: | | Kerry wanted the USA to just pull out and "Hope" the North Vietnamese would return the POWs . |
"Hope" is on the way  |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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The only question is: Where's it going?
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Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | | PENJ wrote: | | I don't think that Kerry should have talked to North Vietnamese representatives. That was wrong, in my view. |
That may be the understatement of the day.
As a commissioned Naval Officer, it was an offense that carried the possibilty of capital punishment if it had ever been charged against him. |
Why then wasn't this impropriety pursued either by the Fullbright Committee or by the Nixon administration? The Nixon Administration, after all, as evidenced by the tapes, took great interest in Kerry's testimony and were looking for ways to discredit him. |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ted,
First you say that you trust the eyewitness accounts of those on Kerry's boat more than those of people who might be only a few yards away, and then you talk about how poor eyewitness testimony can be.
Yep!
BTW, some of us who haven't read the book haven't been able to get our hands on a copy yet. Mine's on order.
I have seen enough information here to trust John O'Neill and the swift boat vets.
Sure it's partisan! Go to DU (although you're probably a member) and tell me that's not partisan. If this were DU, you wouldn't be allowed to post here. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| PENJ wrote: |
Why then wasn't this impropriety pursued either by the Fullbright Committee or by the Nixon administration? The Nixon Administration, after all, as evidenced by the tapes, took great interest in Kerry's testimony and were looking for ways to discredit him. |
Probably at least partly for the same reason that the President doesn't have him arrested now, even though there is no statute of limitations.
Nixon couldn't afford to be seen as abusing his Presidential power.
And you have to think about these things in the context of the times, the mood of the country, the sadness and the despair about the war.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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