SwiftVets.com Forum Index SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Why would Kerry lie?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Swift Vets and POWs for Truth
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ted
Former Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polaris wrote:
D21014 and Ted,

First of all flying jets is no picnic even in peacetime....and bear in mind that TANG (Texas Air Natl Guard) often did patrols near Cuban airspace during the cold war. Secondly LT. Bush did apply for PALACE CHASE (that would have sent him to Vietnam) but he was denied. That's all I will speak about Pres. Bush.

As for the medals, at the risk of sounding self-important, you have to be a Vet to really understand what a lot of us are upset about. Honor and Integrity...and heck downright Character are essential components to leadership...and if Kerry "embellished" his record, then he lacks character. I am toning down my feeling on this considerably BTW.

As bad as that is, I am much more bothered by his activities after the war...especially meeting with representatives of the enemy while still a commissioned officer. I want to hear more about that. If the charge is true (and I am becoming more and more inclined to believe it), then the only office Kerry should be holding is one in Levenworth, Kansas....and the only job he should be doing is turning big rocks into little rocks.


Please don't group me with him, I haven't said anything even close to what he said before it got deleted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an audio file of Kerry talking about burning of villages.I believe it is from his senate testimony.But he also said it on the Dick Cavitt debate.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/audio/kerry2.mp3
He
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shane's PopPop
Ensign


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 53
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You GottaBeKidding:
I also have seen enough about JFnK to believe these Swift Boat Vets are on the level. The clincher for me was "Christmas in Cambodia 1968" no wait it was some time in January 1969. The hat story was pretty nice also. Can you imagine how the United States of America will be viewed around the world if this spineless flip flopping liar get's elected. Shocked
_________________
This space for rent!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ted
Former Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmudd wrote:
Here is an audio file of Kerry talking about burning of villages.I believe it is from his senate testimony.But he also said it on the Daick Cavitt debate.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/audio/kerry2.mp3
He


I will listen to it later...I'm not abandoning the thread kmudd...I just have to go to a clients office and fix their computers!

I'll be back though and listen to that...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Polaris
Rear Admiral


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ted wrote:
Please don't group me with him, I haven't said anything even close to what he said before it got deleted.


Sorry Ted. Correction noted.
_________________
-Polaris

Truth is Beauty
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shane's PopPop
Ensign


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 53
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmudd wrote:
Quote:
Here is an audio file of Kerry talking about burning of villages.I believe it is from his senate testimony.But he also said it on the Daick Cavitt debate.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/audio/kerry2.mp3


Did you catch the UHHH while he was searching for other words to try and destroy our servicemen who were still fighting and dying? I cannot imagine how this sounded to the POW's when their VC guards played it back to them!
_________________
This space for rent!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shane's PopPop wrote:
kmudd wrote:
Quote:
Here is an audio file of Kerry talking about burning of villages.I believe it is from his senate testimony.But he also said it on the Daick Cavitt debate.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/audio/kerry2.mp3


Did you catch the UHHH while he was searching for other words to try and destroy our servicemen who were still fighting and dying? I cannot imagine how this sounded to the POW's when their VC guards played it back to them!


It must have suprized the POWs to have an American appear to be on the enemies side. And confusing when they tell the POWs that Kerry has proved that the US is guilty of wide spread war crimes and that the POW better confess to war crimes of the US.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BlueLotus
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Penj,

Which version of Tour of Duty did you read? The one that is now being revised after it was proven that Kerry was never in Cambodia on Christmas or the one that was printed earlier, before it was proven that Kerry wasn't in Cambodia on Christmas?

Wink

Just funnin' ya.....

However, since you are a Kerry supporter (and Ted might want to read this as well), I would like for you to explain to me how your pick for Prez. could possibly have been shot at by Khmer Rouge forces in Cambodia in 1968 OR 1969 like he has stated he was.

Because in 1986, Kerry said this on the floor of the U.S. Senate:

"I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting in a gunboat in Cambodia, I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States tell the American people I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have the memory which is seared – seared – in me. … "

Even if I accept Kerry's new "explanation" that it wasn't Christmas of 1968, but January of 1969 that he was in Cambodia, it still doesn't explain how he was shot at by KHMER ROUGE guerrillas.

Why?

Because the Khmer Rouge didn't really even have a viable military unit until well AFTER March 18, 1969 (The Khmer Rouge only numbered around 2,500 TOTAL up into 1969) and, in fact, did not even begin to be a viable military force (of battalion strength with VC cadre) until late 1970 or early 1971 (In fact, they didn't begin widespread operations until 1972, but that's another story).

But why is this date significant?

Because it was on this date that the US, under Nixon, began its clandestine bombing campaign of North Vietnamese strongholds in Cambodia. And if we follow the reasoning of Sydney Schanberg, on scene reporter for the New York Times (who, by the way, cannot be considered a fan of Nixon or Republicans in general yet is someone who has come out strongly AGAINST Kerry for reasons relating to Kerry's POW/MIA stance), these bombings were used by Khmer Rouge leaders to gain support amongst the peasants in the country.

Support was later solidified in March/April 1970 after deposed Prince Sihanouk formed an alliance of sorts with the Khmer Rouge, bringing legitimacy and loyalty to the guerrilla movement. It was at this point that the ranks of the Khmer Rouge, which heretofore had been operating in the NORTHERN part of the country, well away from the Mekong delta in any event, begin to swell. However, it wasn't until 1972 that the Khmer Rouge even began to acheive battalion level strength and it wasn't until 1973 that the Khmer Rouge took part in their first battle as an independent force.

So, tell me, WHEN was John Kerry in Cambodia and being fired upon by KHMER ROUGE guerrillas? If it's "seared" in his memory, I would think he could remember it all clearly, wouldn't you?

Besides reading the book, I think a brief review of the history of the Cambodian War from 1968 to 1973 will give you all you need to know about the possibility of hostile fire from the Khmer Rouge during Kerry's "secret missions to Cambodia".

If you would like some online sources, feel free to ask.


Last edited by BlueLotus on Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also why would there be South Vietnamese in Cambodia getting drunk cellibrating Christmas? That doesn't make sense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the telegragh in the uk
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/08/10/do1002.xml

Here's an Associated Press story from 1992: "Navy Lt John Kerry knew he had no business steering his Mekong River patrol boat across the border into Cambodia, but orders were orders… By Christmas 1968, part of Kerry's patrol extended across the border of South Vietnam into Cambodia."

Just one problem. It never happened. Every living officer up his chain of command says Kerry was never ordered to Cambodia. At least three of his five crewmen say their boat was never in Cambodia. And if you don't believe any of his fellow veterans, read the excerpt from Kerry's own journal published in Tour Of Duty, the recent hagiography by Douglas Brinkley.

On December 24 1968, Kerry was at Sa Dec – that's well inside Vietnam, 55 miles from the Cambodian border – and waxing wistful to his diary about a quiet Christmas far from home: "Visions of sugarplums really do dance through your head and you think of stockings and snow and roast chestnuts and fires with birch logs and all that is good and warm and real. It's Christmas Eve."

I'm Vietnammed out. But it's the centrepiece of Kerry's campaign: the other day, asked a straightforward question about 9/11, he stuck to the current millennium for a good 20 seconds and then veered off into "the war that I fought in was a war where we saw America lose its support for the war, where the soldiers came back having had to do what our soldiers are doing today, carry an M-16 in another country, try to tell the difference between friend and foe. I know what it's like to go out at night on patrol", etc, etc. So, since Vietnam seems to be the only subject on which he has anything to say, it would be reassuring to know that at least he's got that right.

For most of his adult life John Kerry has peddled as his central Vietnam anecdote – the one that drove him to turn on his nation's leaders – what appears to be a complete fantasy. Why would he do such a thing? If there's a good answer to that question, maybe someone in his doting press pack would like to ask it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PENJ
Former Member


Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlueLotus wrote:
Penj,

However, since you are a Kerry supporter (and Ted might want to read this as well), I would like for you to explain to me how your pick for Prez. could possibly have been shot at by Khmer Rouge forces in Cambodia in 1968 OR 1969 like he has stated he was.

Because in 1986, Kerry said this on the floor of the U.S. Senate:

"I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting in a gunboat in Cambodia, I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States tell the American people I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have the memory which is seared – seared – in me. … "

Even if I accept Kerry's new "explanation" that it wasn't Christmas of 1968, but January of 1969 that he was in Cambodia, it still doesn't explain how he was shot at by KHMER ROUGE guerrillas.


First, I honestly don't know if a soldier could tell whether a Cambodian or a VC was shooting at him. It is my understanding that many of the VC attempted to look like civilians so it was hard enough to tell who the enemy was, let alone whether they were Cambodians or not. (I am not trying to joke here. Maybe there were physical differences, but I suspect not.)

That said, didn't the Ho Chi Ming (supply) trail run through Cambodia? If so, are you saying that there were no attacks across the border to get at that supply line. It is my understanding that the O'Neill book states that swiftboats were not allowed that far inland, that it was the brownwater navy's duty to patrol near the border.

To be honest, I don't know. (I imagine there is going to be lots of back and forth in the weeks ahead.) I do know that my next door neighbor (my sister's age) was MIA in 1969 and his remains were later discovered in Laos in 1993. He wasn't officially there either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His point was that the Khmer Rouge did not exist as military force when Kerry was in-country.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PENJ
Former Member


Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:
His point was that the Khmer Rouge did not exist as military force when Kerry was in-country.


Well, maybe all 2,500 had descended on Kerry's boat. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PENJ
Former Member


Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmudd wrote:
Also why would there be South Vietnamese in Cambodia getting drunk cellibrating Christmas? That doesn't make sense.


Actually, there were Catholics in South Vietnam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PENJ who gave him the orders? And why does his crew deny his story ? Where did the drunken South Vietnamese come from ? And why would they get drunk at Christmas ? And if Kerry stuck into cambodia how did he know they were drunk unless he was close to where they were at?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Swift Vets and POWs for Truth All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
Page 11 of 15

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group