SwiftVets.com

Septer · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: Doubting Thomas Here...But..

When I first started reading and posting on this site, I was in full support of the SBV4T. I was already against Kerry and figured to myself, “Yeah!...Here’s something that will keep Kerry from getting elected-the truth! Here are facts according to the book, ‘Unfit For Command’”

So, the media onslaught begins.
Some people against Kerry are apparently discredited.
Some people have been shown to waffle on specific statements made in the BOOK.
Documented evidence has been presented by the government that substantiates Kerry’s heroic claims.

Now, grant it, I haven’t received my pre-paid ‘Unfit For Command’ from Amazon.com, but I am now beginning to have reservations on its accuracy.
This crap is begging to insult my intelligence!

What I want is accuracy and truth! What the HELL REALLY HAPPENED!

What I expect is from those sniveling-elitist creeps from the Kerry campaign is to make public his records.
Sign that 180 form.
Until you do, Mr. Kerry, there is going to being lingering doubt on your ability to be elected and to serve as President of the United States (assuming you are elected).
Mr. Kerry, you owe it to those that you intend on governing that you are indeed qualified to lead.
I for one will have severe doubts about you.
You say that you are A Uniter, Not a Divider? Then you should prove it!

Sign that 180 form and get this behind everyone so we can deal with today’s issues!.
_________________
Hey lefties....according to your reasoning, if you didn't serve in the Air Natl. Guard, then what right do you have to question GWB's service, huh?

Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

To me, it looks like "what the hell really happened" is that you've had the wool pulled over your eyes by a few sleight of hand tricks.

Who's been discredited?

Nobody but Kerry has had to admit that there was no Christmas in Cambodia - and changed THAT story, even.

Nobody but Kerry has been demonstrated to have turned and run from the group in the No Man Left Behind incident.

I don't get it. Even Rood's appearance seems to have backed up at least part of the Swifts' recollections.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

25-06 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 8

joe_madeup · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 92

I disagree with your statement that some of the stuff in the book has been discredited.

It's torture, but you have to follow some of these news stories through to the end and then you see the book has NOT been discredited.

I've been marking up my own copy of UFC with new info as it comes out in these news stories and supposed "discreditings".

Re: Kerry's Bronze Star...much of the controversy is over whether there was enemy fire when Rassman was rescued...UFC claims there was not...a few days ago (on the 18th I think), the Washington Post supposedly "discredited" UFC's version by quoting Thurlow's Bronze Star citation, which clearly says there was enemy fire...but nothing was discredited...Thurlow has told a consistent story, that (a) there wasn't enemy fire, (b) he - Thurlow - didn't get his Bronze Star citation until years after the action when he was back in the States, (c) if the citation does say there was enemy fire, it says so only because it was written from Kerry's own reports (the same reports that formed the basis for Kerry's citation. falsely claiming enemy fire) and is "fraudulent" (Thurlow's word) to that extent! And Thurlow's account is backed up by many more eyewitnesses than Kerry's. (I think Kerry has 2, including himself and Rassman; Thurlow's version has something like a dozen witnesses.)

Re: Kerry's Silver Star...there are several points of controversy. Not that I claim any knowledge, but I tried to summarize the competing versions of this event in another thread (I don't know if this system will let you search it). There are probably others who have summarized the facts better. In the last couple days, we've seen William Rood's account of that event come out with much fanfare, supposedly "discrediting" UFC's version of the event. But once again, it didn't really. As I wrote in my other post, and as Mr. O'Neill has said far better and more effectively than I ever could, Rood's account actually agrees with UFC's account on the majority of key factual points....as *against* Kerry's account.

Re: Kerry's 3 purple hearts....Look at your news; Bob Dole himself has just come out agreeing that they were for "scratches" or tiny bits of self-inflicted shrapnel, and what was Kerry thinking when he claimed awards for them? So UFC's criticism of the Purple Hearts stands up.

Re: Kerry's statements and actions in 1971 with his Vietnam Vets Against the War group...Those are all public record. Kerry said what he said; did what he did. Look them up on many websites.

The bottom line is I think you are going to just have to wait for your copy of UFC to arrive....It helps alot to have the book in front of you, when you are trying to follow all these tortured stories and resolve the different claims, and to be able to compare (or even write in) the new points you learn.

I'd had a lot of fun following the controversy, and each day I am more amazed than the day before at how much substance and REALITY is in SBVT. This group is the real deal. (As opposed to, say, Kerry who is not.)

producehawk · PO1 Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 463

Stay the course. Let Kerry get rattled. There can be some honest memory differences in 35 years. However Kerry's statements over the years are not the Fog of war (or age) but pure unadulterated lies.

LewWaters · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:23 am Post subject:

The only distortions and waffling I've seen have been Kerry's stories and some of those coming out to support him. Even they seem unable to agree on what happened. Did Kerry pull Rassman in the boat, or did he dive and save him? Supporters have said both now.

Was he in Cambodia Christmas Eve, or close to it and went to Cambodia later on, maybe for another Christmas Eve in January of 1969? They've said both of those too.

The Swift vets have steadily maintained their stories and haven't waffled. That a couple supported Kerry a few years ago shows they too were fooled by him, by a long time, nothing more.
_________________
Clark County Conservative

tvaughan · Seaman Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 182

I know of nothing that the Swift Vets have said that has been discredited.

Disputed, yes, and I think poorly so. But still not discredited.

Blanket statements like that drive me crazy.

What has been discredited?

The only thing that I know that has been successfully disputed is whether there was hostile fire on the actions that brought Kerry the bronze star. The after action reports (most likely written by Kerry) clearly say that there was hostile fire.

The physical evidence of this, however, does not back up Kerry as even 1000 meters (not the 5000 that Kerry claims) of hostile fire over an hour and a half would have certainly damaged a boat.

It is Kerry's version of the the events that took place that keeps changing, not the swift vets.

Please refrain from the "Juan Williams" attack by simply saying things are true without even some reasoning that backs this up.
_________________
Talking point #1: Sign 180
Talking point #2: Sign 180
Talking point #3: Sign 180

jwb7605 · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:30 am Post subject:

Gosh!
maybe we better rethink this whole thing.

I mean, even today, I heard Susan Estrogen warn that this could really hurt the Bush campaign.

Like I could care.
I want Kerry to earn a Purple Heart for a change.
I want Kerry to write a full report answering the (apparently competely baseless) charges and present this to the people of America.

Problem is, I want direct answers, and I want them from John Kerry, and I want them signed.

joe_madeup · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 92

Where does the term "Juan Williams attack" come from? (who was that? forgive my great ignorance)

AF366TFW · Ensign Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 69 Location: Florida

Actually, I don't think the SBVT are disputing the award of the Bronze Star for the action on 13 Mar 69. It is the Purple Heart that is awarded that day that is in contention. Am I correct?

To my knowledge the first Heart, the third Heart, and the Silver Star are the bones of contention here. All the rest of the "he said, she said" is just smoke and memories. It's the 2 heart and the Silver Star that are the contenteous awards.
_________________
Aim High! The wife hates cleaning the floor!

Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

Juan Williams - NPR leftist talking head.

On Brit Hume's Special Report 2-4 times a week.

Tried to argue Kerry's case for a week without even having read the book, when Barnes and Kondracke obviously had. Wink

_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

Chuck54 · PO1 Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 466

Billman · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:46 am Post subject: Sweet Sue

When Susan Estrich speaks, my 5-year old cries and the cats dive under the bed. My wife's memorable reaction: "My God, who is that woman? Turn it off!"

Forgive this off-topic post, I couldn't help myself.
_________________
-- Bill in Seattle

NavyBrat · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:08 am Post subject:

Her Voice + her Politics..= bad reaction
_________________
Laura~

joe_madeup · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 92