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ArmyWife
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 218
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 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| frankenwil wrote: | | Chuck54 wrote: | | Bush already has released all his records. |
Are you sure about that? Did Bush sign a Form 180? |
They've been talking about looking for dental records, and they already tried the pay records on Bush. I'm thinking he must have signed Form 180. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Actually, it can be proven well enough to stand up in a court of law.
That's why John O'Neill has challenged Kerry to sue him. Sue him for the book, sue him for the ads, sue him for defamation of character, slander and libel.
John O'Neill is a man of high integrity and he would not issue this challenge unless he was on solid footing.
I noticed that the yahoo article says "Vet says doesn't have proof against Kerry" or something like that, when what it should say is "Odell does not have documentation to support his claims." What he does have are the eye-witness accounts of seven people who were there that day.
Last comment - just the fact that Kerry's lawyers have threatened tv stations to keep them from showing the ads, booksellers to keep them from stocking the books and filed an FEC complaint is circumstantial evidence that the Kerry campaign is scared to death.
The truth is with these Swifts.
I would stake everything I own on that.
And when you get a copy of the book, you are going to have sooooo much ammunition - you are going to be able to write a rebuttal to this person's completely airheaded comments that will leave her jaw hanging open. 
You will be brilliant.
Good luck!
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ProudMilitaryWifeDaughter
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:19 am Post subject: |
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I am planning on buying the book and for me I have never gotten into the political battles like this.
I have no experience facing people with these challenges because I never used to make a stand for issues like Kerry who is a huge potential for CIC during an election year, Usually for years I stand on the sidelines listening if that and go and vote. I don't talk politics and never was on a debate team because I thought the point was useless. Now with family in the Service I am scared to see a man like Kerry in charge of them in the America we have today since 9/11
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frankenwil
Former Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| cipher wrote: | | Apropos of nothing, but the President HAS signed the SF-180. That's how the press got his medical records from the ALNG, and all the other documents related to his 5-1/2 years of service that culminated in his Honorable Discharge, |
This article dated July 16th says that the Associated Press is suing for Bush's complete records. Apparently what was released a while back isn't the full extent of Bush's file. Frankly, if SBVT and Bob Dole can force the release of Kerry's entire file, and the Associated Press can force the release of Bush's entire file, I'd be a happy camper. The more we know about both of these guys the better. |
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frankenwil
Former Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | | That's why John O'Neill has challenged Kerry to sue him. Sue him for the book, sue him for the ads, sue him for defamation of character, slander and libel. |
Kind of a meaningless invitation. For purposes of libel law, Kerry is a public figure and it's almost impossible for a public figure to win a libel suit. Proving the allegation is untrue won't do it. Kerry would have to prove that O'Neill's charges were untrue AND that O'Neill, et al, made those charges with reckless disregard for the truth. Given that the events in question happened during battles 35 years ago, I think Kerry would have an impossible task in a libel suit. O'Neill's offer is a p.r. tactic, not a serious invitation. |
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cipher
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Would that be the same Associated Press who had to rewrite an article SEVEN times last night on ONE story, and STILL managed to mess it up?
Whatever. Personally, I couldn't care less about President Bush's military records. He never made an issue of it, never sought glory for it, never stole valor belonging to others, and never dishonored the uniform he wore, nor let down the troops under his command. That's good enough for me.
And that's a LOT more than I can say about John F. Kerry.
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frankenwil
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:34 am Post subject: |
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The AP might be dumb as your mother's pet rock, but they're equal opportunity idiots.  As for Bush's military records, they're every bit as interesting to me aas Kerry's. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Republicans are saying Kerry's Vietnam service is bogus, and the Democrats are saying Bush was AWOL from his Guard unit. To quote the motto on the CIA building (ahem), The truth shall set you free. Why wouldn't anyone want to know the truth about both of these people? |
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ProudMilitaryWifeDaughter
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:36 am Post subject: |
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I have a hard time proving this is not an Anti Kerry Pro Bush site than an Anti Kerry because what he did to the veterns and what he brought up first. I think it is because of history anything that is anti is although unintentional pro someone else
I truely believe SBVT is solely anti Kerry for one reason alone, Kerry turned his back on Vietnam Vets and his duty as a Navy Officer. Kerry started the issue when he brought his Hero status to his political campain eventhough he said there were no heros from Vietnam that they were all murders etc. It took me a good month of reading this site and Kerrylied to believe what I was reading and his public avoidance at first raised a question in my mind. Getting others to not be lazy and do the research is the hard part.
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7rrfs
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:42 am Post subject: |
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I hope this dont get that thar edit ax!
The problem with Bush's records is that he was in the Reserves. The reserves were very lax at the time - record keeping was a mess - an after though centered on accumulating points. Head to the local VFW etc and ask around.
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| Quote: | | Given that the events in question happened during battles 35 years ago, I think Kerry would have an impossible task in a libel suit. O'Neill's offer is a p.r. tactic, not a serious invitation. |
Not if Kerry signs the SF-180 and the record backs him. It would be a slam dunk case then.
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4moreyears
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:46 am Post subject: |
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..."I have a hard time proving this is not an Anti Kerry Pro Bush site than an Anti Kerry..."
I personally am Anti-kerry and Pro-Bush...but that's just me. In my opinion anyone who has a brain with two hemispheres might think the same way. Those with just a LEFT hemisphere...well I feel for them!
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frankenwil
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| 7rrfs wrote: | | Not if Kerry signs the SF-180 and the record backs him. It would be a slam dunk case then. |
I don't think so. All you have to do is look at the varying statements already out there. It's a classic "he said/he said" about things that happened more than 30 years ago in the heat of battle. Even if O'Neill was to be proven wrong, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that anyone could show "reckless disregard." O'Neill and/or his lawyers must be well aware of it, or they wouldn't make the invitation to a libel suit.
If O'Neill was serious, he would publicly label someone else a liar, such as the editor for the Chicago Tribune who wrote in support of Kerry. He would qualify as a private figure, and the standard for libel in that case is much lower. I suspect that O'Neill and his lawyers know that, too, and won't risk doing it.
I think O'Neill's invitation to a libel suit from Kerry is clever, but it's not serious. |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:56 am Post subject: |
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frankenwil,
Do you honestly believe that Kerry wouldn't dare initiate a libel suit solely because he's a public figure?
If so, why isn't Kerry even attempting to refute the charges from John O'Neill and the other Swiftvets? If he's right, and unfairly accused, then he should be proving that, even if he couldn't win a libel suit.
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ProudMilitaryWifeDaughter
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Frankly, if SBVT and Bob Dole can force the release of Kerry's entire file, and the Associated Press can force the release of Bush's entire file, I'd be a happy camper. The more we know about both of these guys the better. |
Now dont get me as a pro-bush person here but he has proved himself the last almost 4 years as what kind of leader he can be so his service 30+ is more or less irrelivant because he hasnt gone AWOL or now called UA on us even when 9/11 happened, but Kerry has not shown leadership specially in his proof as a Navy Ltjg and as a Senator with his huge absence and his political campain based on his military record.
Hey look Swifties are helping learn to debate 
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thorrell
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: |
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I agree the Lawsuit is a Red Herring. John O'Neill merely compiles what others have said, and then interprets it. There's really not much to base a Libel suit of O'Neill on.
He might be able to sue the vets who have signed affidavits though.. but that would be BAD PR.
If Bush has not realeased his whole record, then he should. But I thought the Executive Order he gave was equivalant to that. |
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frankenwil
Former Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | Do you honestly believe that Kerry wouldn't dare initiate a libel suit solely because he's a public figure? |
That's exactly what I think. When was the last time you can recall a national politician filing a libel suit over things said during a political campaign?
| Quote: | | If so, why isn't Kerry even attempting to refute the charges from John O'Neill and the other Swiftvets? If he's right, and unfairly accused, then he should be proving that, even if he couldn't win a libel suit. |
I'd say Kerry is doing a whole lot of refuting.
(Ensuing delights of fantasy Deleted by Admin) |
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