SwiftVets.com

[jwb7605]

This is interesting.
I got this e-mail just a few minutes ago, and am dutifully reporting the incident. First is the message body I received, followed by my reply.
NOTE TO ADMIN: It's up to you on whether this guy's name and e-mail address remain in the text of this message!

INCOMING MESSAGE:
JW: How about asking the "Swiftees" to take a polygraph test and publishing the results. Have each test video taped. I know the "Swiftees" are telling the truth, but the problem is the only DOCUMENTATION favors Kerry's position.

Then challenge Kerry and his ilk to do the same. I am sure they would refuse and that would make a huge difference in this war of words. Find a very reputable polygrapher and go for it. I think the american people would then be able to truly see who is lying in this situation.

The democrats are excellent political spinners and demonizers. Much better than the republicans.

I have written to the "Swiftees" organization and made this same suggestion. I honestly think it would be the solution. A recent poll shows more people believe Kerry's version than the "Swiftees" and polygraph tests could turn that all around.

I guess I am writing this to you only to try to gain support for this idea. I just can't think of another way to "prove" that the "Swiftees" are not being used by the White House and that they are simply outraged at this kind of man could conceivably be the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. I shudder at the prospect.

Thanks for your time.

[EDITED BY MODERATOR]

MY REPLY:
As long as John Kerry gets to go first, it would be a fine idea.
As soon as we know for sure Kerry is telling the truth, everybody would find out what exaggerations the Swiftees are making.
They obviously are not lying 100%, or the "Christmas in Cambodia" issue would still be in dispute.
I'm pretty sure the tapes of John Kerry on the Senate Floor were not edited by wascally wepublicans, either.

The reason for doing it in the above order is primarily to allow John Kerry to clear his name quickly, and get on with "the real issues", as they put it. Can you imagine how much time it would take to thoroughly vet the polygraph results of hundreds of sailors? Why, the election might be over by that time! Worse yet, if those polygraphs came back largely negative, we'd all be aghast at what we'd done to the country.

Maybe not. I forgot ... in the 1992 election, character didn't count (that was one of the talking points).
Anyway, I'm an old guy now, although not quite as old as Bob Dole, who knows John Kerry personally.

Hey -- instead of a polygraph, how about we see how the Swiftees respond to a public apology from John Kerry, like Bob Dole suggested?
If that turned out to be unacceptable, we'd sure know a lot more about them.

You don't suppose George Bush put Bob Dole up to that, do you?

but I digress ... getting back to the "polygraph test":
If John Kerry actually wrote about seeing "bloated dead bodies floating down the river" in Olongapo, I would be honored, as well, to be a part of the polygraph testing, since I have been to Olongapo (Subic Bay) on several occasions spanning 3 years of time, from 1968 through 1971. I wasn't on the same boat as Kerry, though, so what I have to say about that issue is obviously invalid.
Unfortunately, he seems to have prevented his publisher from allowing more copies of his book to be distributed.
I would also be willing to answer questions about when we actually did "invade Cambodia". ... not just sneak a guy over there, but invade it.

I'll be proud, though, to copy this and post it in the SwiftVets forum, so we can rationally discuss the issue among ourselves.

[Hueygunner]

The Swifties were smart to change their advertisement. It's not necessary to question John Kerry's military record. His post-service record is more damning. While hundreds of thousands of young G.I.s were deep in Vietnamese mud, fighting for their lives and their friends' lives, John Kerry was organizing and demonstrating against the war his former comrades had devoted their lives to winning. And after the American efforts came to nothing, millions of Vietnamese found themselves behind a bamboo curtain, cut off from freedom because of folks like John Kerry who gave moral support to the enemy.

[jwb7605]

UPDATED.
I'm not exactly sure whether this guy is for real or not.
I'd appreciate opinions.
My take is either (a) a very nice troll, or (b) naive beyond belief.
Since he's being very polite, I'll go with (b).
----------------------------------------------------------------
At 12:58 PM 8/23/2004 -0700, you wrote:

Jim: I am not talking about polygraphs for all Swiftees, only those guys on the 3-4 boats that were there when the action took place that resulted in Kerry "winning" his medals. That would probably be no more than 20 guys. A polygraph test can be done in 45 minutes, with just a few hours of question development by the polygrapher. The polygrapher would only need to know about what occurred on that day at that place to develop his questions. The entire process should take no more than 3-5 days. At least it would tend to show if there is lying going on.

Whether lying is going on is already apparent.
If "the public" can't figure that out, the public will elect John Kerry, "on the issues".
(In my opinion, God help this country, but) be careful what you ask for, you might get it.
From my last e-mail, I believe the Kerry campaign has now backed off yet another scenario.
To be blunt, I'm actually enjoying this slow, agonizing retreat.
At any rate, the actual number is 254, not 20.


There is no way that Kerry is going to apo
logize. That would indicate that he had been lying about all the atrocities. Remember, he said he actually took part in some of the atrocities in his early testimony before the Senate.

We differ on that point, also.
John Kerry will apologize. The question is whether he apologizes sooner rather than later.
I'd like to see it later, although I'd prefer it be before November.
But he will, eventually, apologize.



There is no other way to resolve this issue. It would only come down to "we agree to disagree" and the public would never know what the truth was. A polygraph could sure turn the tide one way or the other and it is the truth we should all be looking for.

There are, in fact, a myriad of ways to solve this issue.
(a) The simplest way is for John Kerry to sign the Form 180.
That simple action is, to my knowledge, not being pressed as an issue by the Main Stream Media.
President Bush has already done the same by virtue of an executive order to release his records.
(b) Another way, of course, is for the press to actually do their job in a detached manner.
Failing either of the above methods, what remains is to keep this issue open, like the festering sore it is.
The general public will not "know" anything, as an end result, until BOTH (a) and (b) occur.
If (a) occurs without (b), the general public will not know anything useful
if (b) occurs without (a), factual items (which polygraph testing does NOT indicate), is still missing.



Thanks, Jim, for responding back to me. I really appreciate it. My best wishes to you now and in the future. Bob

No problem.
As you can probably figure out, I'm a bit suspicious of your motives (e.g. "troll")
If you are a "troll", you are a very polite one, and I appreciate the lack of colorful adjectives.
If not, I'm going to guess you're under fifty years of age, and did not participate in hostile military action.

[air_vet]

The reality is (despite what you see on TV) that "lie-detector" tests are not very reliable by themselves. For example - candidate Kerry has been telling the Cambodia story for over 30 years - I'll bet you he could have passed a "lie-detector" test with flying colors on the issue! He BELIEVES the lies he has been telling!

[jwb7605]

This guy turned out to be a veteran, and was serious about the issue.
I've since exchanged some private e-mails with him, and he's pretty sharp, and definetly not a troll.
I did raise the reliability issue, and pointed out that it was a wonderful opportunity for lawyers to get involved, and make things messier.

So, MODERATOR: I think we should close and kill the thread.