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Natesfortune
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:11 am Post subject: Kerry just gave the Swift Boat Veterans a HUGE present... |
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Something I just wrote in to "instapundit.com"
I just noticed that ABC News has reported, via this
link,
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/Kerry%20Pushes%20Back%20on%20Nam%20Accusations.html
that Kerry today engaged in this rather
unfortunate(for him) defense of his own record of
honesty versus the Swift Vets:
| Quote: | A revved up Kerry addressed Vietnam first
retorting, "All the guys who were with me on my boat
absolutely document what I've said... you're now
hearing about the lie. I am absolutely telling you the
God's honest truth with regard to what happened over
there." |
The problem is, as any reader of blogs would know,
that's another lie.
Steve Gardner WAS on Kerry's boat - in fact, he was on
Kerry's boat longer than any other crew member(Alston,
who spoke for Kerry at the convention, was only with
him 6 days - Rassman about 2).
Gardner is also a member of Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth, and in fact, is now featured in the Swiftvets
latest ad, pointing out that he was indeed on John
Kerry's boat.
The Swifties should absolutely add this bit of video into the opening section of their latest ad with Gardner - it's like it's a gift from above for them.
You'd have Kerry roaring out that "everybody" on the
boat with him supports his story, and the Swifties are
a bunch of liars, and that he's telling "the God's
honest truth!"
Then Gardner would come on and completely, and
devastatingly, refute Mr. Kerry's "God's honest truth"
right there in the same spot.
Can you imagine how embarrassing and effective the ad
would be if it added this Kerry clip to the beginning?
It would clearly and succinctly demonstrate how
untrustworthy Mr. Kerry is on a daily basis, not just
in and after Vietnam, but in the here and now as well
- even to the point of misrepresenting such a simple
fact to make himself look better at a rally during his
wild and flailing response to these critiques.
Any way we could get this idea to the Swifties and
give them a chance to make their ad even that much
more powerful?
P.S. And Kerry's calling THESE guys liars? Think the
media will point out Kerry's bald-faced lie here, or just
report it and deceive the public on purpose? They know
damn well that Gardner was on Kerry's boat. Should
they let a candidate just shoot off the mouth in a
blatant falsehood without calling them on it?
Maybe it was "seared - SEARED" into his memory...
Natesfortune
Last edited by Natesfortune on Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:53 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Natesfortune:
I agree 100%. Add that clip to the beginning of Gardner's ad. Throw Kerry's lies right back in his face. He's giving us a very big present saying that. They'll have to spend millions to counterattack sometheing we can implement for a few thousand dollars, max. Thanks, Boston Strangler, you ain't so swift after all.  |
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Curmudgeon
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Central Coast of California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Unfortunately, Gardner wasn't on that boat that day. |
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Natesfortune
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Curmudgeon wrote: | | Unfortunately, Gardner wasn't on that boat that day. |
?
What day?
Are you trying to confuse the issue? No specific day has been named here, and adding this bit to the front of the new ad isn't reliant on any specific "day" at all.
1. Kerry said that "Everybody" that served on his boat agrees with his version of events in Vietnam.
2. That's not true, as Gardner was on the boat longer than any other Kerry crewmate, and he is opposing Kerry's tales.
And yes, there are lots of things in "Unfit for Command" that are talked about that reference the time period Gardner was on the boat - Kerry is trying to refute the entire attack from the Swiftvets, not just their attack on the Bay Hap river bronze star.
Kerry is saying that the entire book is untrue - and much of that book covers the time period Gardner was on the boat. Not to mention that Kerry's swipe was about the entire thing, not one specific incident.
What Kerry said was a lie, plain and simple. They should put that lie, along with the "God's honest truth" bit, right into their ad and show the American people what a whopper it is. |
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7rrfs
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:34 am Post subject: |
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The best person to prove John Kerry is a liar is ..................... John Kerry.
If you need someone to discredit John Kerry go to .................John Kerry.
etc
_________________
"I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry |
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Curmudgeon
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Central Coast of California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Natesfortune wrote: | What day?
Are you trying to confuse the issue? No specific day has been named here, and adding this bit to the front of the new ad isn't reliant on any specific "day" at all. |
Not at all. Good grief, I am on your side. The day most in question, that the media are focusing on to try to debunk our efforts, when there are people on both sides willing to be interviewed on the subject, and the most documents are available referring to enemy fire, is the Bronze Star day. Any attempt to cloud the issue for that day with Gardner would backfire.
But, after further consideration, I think I agree with you.
Regards,
Dave
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Curmudgeon wrote: | | Natesfortune wrote: | What day?
Are you trying to confuse the issue? No specific day has been named here, and adding this bit to the front of the new ad isn't reliant on any specific "day" at all. |
Not at all. Good grief, I am on your side. The day most in question, that the media are focusing on to try to debunk our efforts, when there are people on both sides willing to be interviewed on the subject, and the most documents are available referring to enemy fire, is the Bronze Star day. Any attempt to cloud the issue for that day with Gardner would backfire.
But, after further consideration, I think I agree with you.
Regards,
Dave
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All the guys who were with me on my boat
absolutely document what I've said
Kerry didn't say what boat...  |
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Natesfortune
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Curmudgeon wrote: | | Natesfortune wrote: | What day?
Are you trying to confuse the issue? No specific day has been named here, and adding this bit to the front of the new ad isn't reliant on any specific "day" at all. |
Not at all. Good grief, I am on your side. The day most in question, that the media are focusing on to try to debunk our efforts, when there are people on both sides willing to be interviewed on the subject, and the most documents are available referring to enemy fire, is the Bronze Star day. Any attempt to cloud the issue for that day with Gardner would backfire.
But, after further consideration, I think I agree with you.
Regards,
Dave
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OK Dave,
Just a misunderstanding - you wouldn't believe the excuses I've heard from leftists on this issue, and at first, over this text medium, I thought that's what you were trying to do.
I agree that the most contentious "day" is the Bay Hap river incident.
However, Kerry is clearly debunking EVERYTHING the Swifties say publically, despite the fact that he's had to go back on a few things as a result of their book.
I can't think of a more effective thing than to have him plainly lying, and even saying "...the God's honest truth!", and then having Gardner come on and show the masses out there that Kerry is telling whoppers, and there was indeed a member IN HIS BOAT that disagrees with him and his Vietnam narrative.
Kerry - "Every man that actually served in my boat agrees with me! The rest are liars!"
Gardner - "Uh, I was in your boat, buddy, and I say YOU'RE lying."
Powerful, powerful stuff.
It'd make for a classic, devastating ad, in my opinion. Especially to swing voters. |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I agree. I think many people viewing it would come to the conclusion
"Wow, I thought he was still saying he went to Cambodia. Guess not!"
Heh..heh, cost a fortune to explain "Gardner was on the boat but he's a liar, I meant the OTHER guys, the ones who say I'm honest"
Classic. This needs to be done, you don't get opportunities handed to you like this often. |
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Herb
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:32 am Post subject: |
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This is GOOD.
I was critical of the Gardner add (at this time and current situation) since the "Christmas in Cambodia" is a WON ISSUE on facts but currently being beaten back by the PRESS (not Kerry or his minions) with the "oh, that doesn't matter" dismissal.
If you could INTRODUCE it with Kerry saying "God's honest truth" etc. THEN this add would be superb.
_________________
Herb |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Herb:
You can see it now, can't you? It would be a cheap, easy kill. Another Kerry self-inflicted wound. Can you get this up the chain of command and run it past them? Then delete this thread, I would suggest, if it's going to possibly be implemented. |
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jrsdad
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Natesfortune wrote: | What day?
Are you trying to confuse the issue? No specific day has been named here, and adding this bit to the front of the new ad isn't reliant on any specific "day" at all. |
I believe it is evident from the whole quote that Kerry is talking about the 13 March incident, not the Swiftees in general. He is focussing on that one to impeach the rest because he has Rassmann, and who can claim he didn't rescue that man?
| Quote: | | "All the guys who were with me on my boat, all the guys who were with me in the specific action where they could see it and do it, absolutely document what I said," Kerry responded. |
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Sun Tzu
Seaman
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| efuseakay wrote: | | Curmudgeon wrote: | | Natesfortune wrote: | What day?
Are you trying to confuse the issue? No specific day has been named here, and adding this bit to the front of the new ad isn't reliant on any specific "day" at all. |
Not at all. Good grief, I am on your side. The day most in question, that the media are focusing on to try to debunk our efforts, when there are people on both sides willing to be interviewed on the subject, and the most documents are available referring to enemy fire, is the Bronze Star day. Any attempt to cloud the issue for that day with Gardner would backfire.
But, after further consideration, I think I agree with you.
Regards,
Dave
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All the guys who were with me on my boat
absolutely document what I've said
Kerry didn't say what boat... |
I sense a future politician...or lawyer...in our midst.  |
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kman
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Kerry just gave the Swift Boat Veterans a HUGE present.. |
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| Quote: | A revved up Kerry addressed Vietnam first
retorting, "All the guys who were with me on my boat
absolutely document what I've said... you're now
hearing about the lie. I am absolutely telling you the
God's honest truth with regard to what happened over
there." |
Wow, invoking the name of God in yet another lie. That's worse than Clinton's "finger of sincerity".
There's your next ad guys. That would play REALLY well in Middle America.
Kurt |
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Curmudgeon
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Central Coast of California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Add another boat mate to the list, Adm. Schachte Jr.
I posted the following to another forum this morning:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-nws-novak27.html
Yet another retired ADMIRAL speaks out, who was ON THE BOAT WITH HIM at the time, acknowledging that there was NO ENEMY FIRE when Kerry received his first self inflicted scratch. I suppose the Kerry partisans will claim this gentleman is lying too.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips27.html
But, the bigger story is here, also in the Chicago Sun Times.
| Quote: | The Kerry campaign has repeatedly stated that the official naval records prove the truth of Kerry's assertions about his service.
But the official records on Kerry's Web site only add to the confusion. The DD214 form, an official Defense Department document summarizing Kerry's military career posted on johnkerry.com, includes a "Silver Star with combat V."
But according to a U.S. Navy spokesman, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star."
Naval regulations do not allow for the use of a "combat V" for the Silver Star, the third-highest decoration the Navy awards. None of the other services has ever granted a Silver Star "combat V," either. |
| Quote: | | B.G. Burkett, a Vietnam veteran himself, received the highest award the Army gives to a civilian, the Distinguished Civilian Service Award, for his book Stolen Valor. Burkett pored through thousands of military service records, uncovering phony claims of awards and fake claims of military service. "I've run across several claims for Silver Stars with combat V's, but they were all in fake records," he said. |
There is a reason that Kerry is refusing to sign the form 180 and allow us to review the other 94 pages of his military record. I suspect that if they ever are released we will find that Kerry should have been attending Naval Reserve meetings during his antiwar activities in 1971. But being AWOL, like they claim Bush was, might just be the least of his problems. He may very well have been guilty of crimes under the UCMJ and Title 18 for some of those activities. Specifically, meeting with Madame Nhu in Paris, while still a Commissioned Officer in the Naval Reserve, would have been proscribed and treasonous. I think the gap in his records, at the very least, is meant to suggest that he was not still in the military during 1971, when it is obvious that he was.
Regards,
Dave
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